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So Coventry is on shutdown along with a few other places for the next few days.
So anyone going to show their support for a man, who doesnt like gay people, birth control, women, and denies sexual abuse of children in the catholic church.
With this be to discuss the Catholic position on buyer/seller protection?
Just a minor point, but John Paul II died a couple of years ago - current one is Benedict, formerly Joseph Ratzinger.
I'm not Catholic but I can't help feeling this thread may be started to antagonise people that are?? Sorry if I've got the wrong end of it.
come on, lay off the guy. it's not like he's a nazi or anything.
The Pope's visiting Paypal? Do you reckon he can put a word in over a dispute I'm having?
I'm tempted to get one of [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Benedictaphone-Voice-Recorder-Keyring-Luckies/dp/B003ELFFIO ]these[/url] to remember the event by.
genius 😆
IanMunro I was laughing at those earlier!
Sorry it was supposed to be papal not paypal.
It's going to be so much fun in London.
What I don't get is that in a country which is Church of England by definition, why such a fuss is being made over a visit form the Leader of the Catholic Church?
Would there be such wide spread media coverage and disruption if the leader of the Hindu Faith came over here for a few days?
Would there be such wide spread media coverage and disruption if the leader of the Hindu Faith came over here for a few days?
It's all to do with stuff like [url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7060406.ece ]this[/url].
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..and remember - Jesus Does Sport
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..and of course
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So why are we even letting him into the country then?
So why are we even letting him into the country then?
Something to do with the people who could stop him not really being bothered or not having the spine to say "not welcome".
So why are we even letting him into the country then?
Because 'we' aren't a religiously intolerant dictatorship, we're a (reasonably) democratic open-minded nation that allows people to practice their faith free from persecution.
About 'we'. Who TF are 'we'? Don't include me in your intolerance please.
For the record: I'm not a Catholic and do not agree with several aspects of Catholic doctrine or the actions of the Vatican. However, I appreciate that I live in a nation where Catholic people want to see their religious leader, and support their freedom to be able to do just that.
Sorry it was supposed to be papal not paypal.
Paypal is funnier
We should really be getting the world's biggest choir together in welcome: "Ehhverry sperm is gooooooood..."
No intolerance, I'm married to a Catholic despite very strong Protestant roots.
By we I mean the nation/government, allowing someone who knowingly harbored and allowed a sex offender to continue on their way, as shown in the link above into the UK.
He is just another old man to me but if he wishes to have a debate with me he is most welcome. 😀
I was born a catholic, went to catholic primary school, had a pretty rough time of it there, probably experienced what might now be called 'abuse', though none of it was sexual I did end up in therapy because of it (I'm making a serious point here peeps) but even I find the tone of some of you to be just way out of line and plain ignorant.
I lapsed a long time ago. Consider myself to be borderline atheist or at least a rationalist/pragmatist. If you don't like the catholic church then I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with people expressing disgust with what has happened. But way too many of you just take it that little step further and turn it into prejudice. It's not appeared in this thread yet, but I've seen it in others.
Think about what you write before write it and have some respect even if you don't agree with their doctrine.
Oldskool
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[url=
Minchin eloquently nails it with an appropriate level of respect. (Not safe for work).[/url]
By we I mean the nation/government, allowing someone who knowingly harbored and allowed a sex offender to continue on their way, as shown in the link above into the UK.
It is not clear from that article,that the Pope knew about that particular priest's crimes, at that time.
Mgr Gruber said that the Pope, who was made a cardinal in 1977, had not been not aware of his decision because there were 1,000 priests in the diocese at the time and he had left many decisions to lower-level officials.
An American group, Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, said it “boggles the mind to hear a German Catholic official claim that a credibly accused paedophile priest was reassigned to parish work without the knowledge of his boss, then-Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger”
I'm not, for one moment, condoning the actions of the Vatican towards this issue. I think it's disgusting the way all these cases have been handled. I don't think the former member of the Hitler Youth has done himself any favours at all. I would imagine many Catholics are very angry and disillusioned by this whole sorry affair.
What people can do, as members of a free and democratic nation, is exercise their right to protest against this visit, the actions of the Vatican and the rank hypocrisy displayed by the Catholic church's leaders. We as citizens have the right to voice our opinions if we so chose.
But bear in mind several million British Catholics are entitled to theirs, just as equally.
I knew there was a reason why Paypal is so useless! 😆
So anyone going to show their support for a man,who doesnt like gay people,
He's here to beatify Cardinal Newman who is generally believed to have been gay.
not much evidence he doesn't like women, but happy to let it passbirth control, women,
and denies sexual abuse of children in the catholic church.
no he doesn't
Think about what you write before write it and have some respect even if you don't agree with their doctrine.
errr ok
best not say anything then but I'm really hoping there is a hell and the pope ends up there getting sodomised by a rhino whilst being made to listen to the tim minchin song on repeat for all eternity.
There really is no place in this world for people who protect peadophiles from prosecution, and thats just the tip of a very big iceberg.
oops I said something didn't I... really sorry if I've offended any catholics I'm sure your not all nazi peados
That Minchin song is brilliant btw
You see Filthy it's the point at which you suggest that being catholic is in some way correlated with being a peadophille that you cross the line.
If I suggested completely baselessly that you were also paedo then you'd be pretty upset I imagine.
steve_b77 - Member
So why are we even letting him into the country then?
Because a child has more chance of being abused by a family member than by a catholic priest.
Wonder if he can do anything about the congregation of the catholic church opposite my house who keep blocking my drive
Miserable sods anyway, they didn't join in the Oliver Cromwell celebrations we had a couple of years back and he lived in this town
I'm printing out posters tomorrow and will be showing my disapproval just after he arrives in Edinburgh.
If he was here on a regular visit and not using taxpayer money then I wouldn't have a problem with it, more mild amusement. The fact that it is classified as a visit from a head of state when that state only exists for tax purposes that really bugs me. Otherwise people can bow down to whatever imaginary being they like.
You see Filthy it's the point at which you suggest that being catholic is in some way correlated with being a peadophille that you cross the line.
actually I said I'm sure your [b]NOT[/b] all nazi paedos
I do have a few catholic friends, ok it's probably a decreasing number but I certainly treat them as individuals, I certainly wouldn't catagorise them all as paedos... not even all the priests
my eldest even goes to a catholic school, although I do let her have the day off when it's mass
i used to have a lovely pope teaspoon from Rome airports tack-emporium
There was a post on another forum saying what music should be played to him when he arrives. Some of the answers were brilliant - then the thread got stopped. I never got to say "Don't let your son go down on me" I was gutted!
By the way I'm a Catholic, non practicing now but I think the churches blind ignorance and blatant cover-up of these abuse cases is beyond dispicable and the guilty ones should be flogged!
my eldest even goes to a catholic school, although I do let her have the day off when it's mass
Which I pressume is primarliy funded by the church as most of them are....So your happy for your childs education to be funded by this organisation however you harbour such strong views of distain towards them?
it's the point at which you suggest that being catholic is in some way correlated with being a peadophille that you cross the line.
Being catholic doesn't mean you're a paedo.
It just means you've got a tendancy to lie about it if you know someone who is.
I will be too busy protecting my children from the pedo to protest 😉
You're going to protest about an organisation linked to child abuse but are happy to let a war criminal go scot-free because he was our Prime Minister at the time?
[i]my eldest even goes to a catholic school, although I do let her have the day off when it's mass[/i]Which I pressume is primarliy funded by the church as most of them are....So your happy for your childs education to be funded by this organisation however you harbour such strong views of distain towards them?
Wouldn't bother me, I believe my parents did some quite significant lying to get me into a Catholic primary school, and I'd do the same for my kids if needed.
While I like the idea of the former Pope (Polish Partizan) fighting the current one (ex-Hitler Youth) Alas,every boy over the age of 14 HAD to join the HL by law.Scouts BB etc were banned,reluctant children and parents were "re-educated" Attempts at active resistance,eg Edelwiess Pirates...Google image the pirates.So under those circumstances,the HL story is actually rather sad.Mind you;even if he was a willing participant it would not be as bad as the deal the Vatican made with the Nazis,to look the other way while the Nazis got rid of the opposition (Jews,Communists,Gay men and Lesbians)which nobody seems to mention instead of the far more harmless membership of the HL.
While have sympathy for the huge amount of hassle it will cause other people,I think he should be allowed to visit his flock in the UK.He makes a lot of people happy,and they should be allowed that,we are not the state he grew up in.Mind,I wonder if he will say sorry on behalf of Uncle Klaus,who visited Coventry at night,by plane, 60 years ago? 😆
Was Dawkins not going to try and arrest him at whatever airport he flew into?
"The Catholic Church is a ridiculous organisation run by a bunch of sinister, hysterical virgins." - Stephen Fry.
"Stephen is a gay man who is the godfather to my children and I'm proud to call him my friend. I am perfectly happy to have Stephen babysit my children and he has done, in the past. If, on the other hand, a Catholic priest in full regalia turned up to babysit, first I'd call a cab, then I'd call the police." - Chris Hitchens.
Tim Minchin is the funniest man on the planet.
So then.........is anyone going to protest ? That after all was the question.
.
Or are all those strongly held views only to be shared with other STWers ?
I'm going to go down to Parliament Square, with a huge banner that reads 'Stop Woppit Now', to express my dipleasure.
Eh?
Oh the [i]Pope[/i]. Couldn't give a monkey's actually.
Oh, and WTF has Stephen Fry's sexuality got to do with babysitting kids?
Johan Hari in the Independent seemed to have it right: the people who should be protesting are the British Catholics. He's done all that protecting paedo stuff in your name, and is head of your religion.
Have a ****ing word, eh?
He's just another old ****. **** him. His type won't be around in a couple of generations....
Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens sum up my thoughts rather brilliantly during this debate in London. Expect an angry mood to have rubbed off on you if you watch the whole (but frustratingly rushed) thing:
Mr Woppit seems to have seen the same thing I did...
Edit: Elfinsafetry - it is relevant since, in the Pope's view, Stephen Fry cannot be a moral, respectable man unless he apologises, feels ashamed, and promises never to have sex with someone he loves ever again for the rest of his life.
It is a distinction that I would be keen to draw between me and the pope too.
I'm a bit surprised Hitchen's children have a godfather.
😆I'm a bit surprised Hitchen's children have a godfather.
Ok. So why does[b] Christ[/b]opher Hitchins have a problem with the idea of a Catholic priest babysitting his children then?
Stephen is a gay man who is the [b]GOD[/b]father to my children and I'm proud to call him my friend. I am perfectly happy to have Stephen babysit my children and he has done, in the past. If, on the other hand, a Catholic priest in full regalia turned up to babysit, first I'd call a cab, then I'd call the police." - Chris Hitchens.
Christopher Hitchens is an idiot who has also now shown that he is a hypocrite.
Closed?
Apparently not. Weird. I've never seen that happen before...
Which is good, as debate and discussion is healthy, as long as folk can avoid nastiness.
.So your happy for your childs education to be funded by this organisation however you harbour such strong views of distain towards them?
Err Yes, I'm quite happy to take thier funding, even though I find thier beliefs incomprihensible and thier leaders morals questionable. I even lied to them in order to secure a place, do I feel any guilt or shame, err No
What I resent, in addition to all the above, is that £18M OF taxpayers' money is being used to help finance this paypal visit in the context of Osbourne's cuts. This is yet a further abuse of innocent members of the public.
Wherever the parish priest went in my school (Xaverian, Manchester), you could tell from the stream of boys running away. He groped me once. It never occurred to us at the time to say anything to anyone else...
What I resent, in addition to all the above, is that [b]£18M[/b] OF taxpayers' money is being used to help finance this paypal visit in the context of Osbourne's cuts. This is yet a further abuse of innocent members of the public.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11305217 ]
Lord Patten, the prime minister's representative for Pope Benedict's visit to the UK, reaffirmed that the total cost of the Pope's stay to the taxpayer would be between [b]£10m[/b] and [b]£12m[/b].The Catholic Church is also expected to make a contribution of between [b]£9m[/b] and [b]£10m[/b] towards the costs.
[/url]
Err Yes, I'm quite happy to take thier funding, even though I find thier beliefs incomprihensible and thier leaders morals questionable. I even lied to them in order to secure a place, do I feel any guilt or shame, err No
You're quite a role model for your children, aren't you?
Why thank you johnners I like to think so
Ok. So why does Christopher Hitchins have a problem with the idea of a Catholic priest babysitting his children then?
I think it might perhaps have something to do with the fact that a number of catholic priests have spent the last 20 years or more either raping children, or covering up the rape of children by their fellow priests.
Sure, its a minority, but a significantly larger minority than outside the catholic church...
I went to a catholic school, o the priest went to jail for... Child abuse. I have no respect for the catholic church...
He is just another old man to me but if he wishes to have a debate with me he is most welcome.
I suspect you might lose 🙂
Too right Filthy. Get what you can from them. I send my kids to a C of E school. I understand completely that religion is a load of old toss, but it;s the best school in the area. I have no problem lying.
Anyone who thinks different is naive, deluded or just plain stupid. Or religious, which is possibly worse.
This post is overwhelmingly disgraceful, I am ashamed of you.
Or religious, which is possibly worse.
Worse than teaching your children that dishonesty is acceptable?
Sure, its a minority, but a significantly larger minority than outside the catholic church...
As someone pointed out earlier, many more children are abused by a family member. Be interested to see some statistics for what percentage of Catholic priests are in fact nonces. By your reckoning, the fact that a child is far more likely to be abused by a family member than a Catholic priest, then shouldn't everyone who is the relative of a child be locked up?
Yep. I am very clear on this.
I understand completely that religion is a load of old toss..... I have no problem lying
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or so help you god...... that sir, I can most definitely do.
Imagine if your kids end up buying into all that crap?
Did you have to get them christened to get them in?
Anyone who thinks different is naive, deluded or just plain stupid. Or religious, which is possibly worse.
Or maybe just honest ?
You might be surprised to learn that some people believe it's important to teach their children to be honest.
Although I assume that you would be happy to rob a bank - if you felt you could get away with it and it provided more opportunities for your children.
No...they're pretty smart. Not christened, and they treat the stories just like they treat other nice stories that they hear at school. Bible/Beast Quest/Koran/Harry Potter etc etc...it's all good.
Yep. I am very clear on this.
Ok, so now that you've admitting to being a liar, is it ok if we no longer believe in anything you say?
yes teaching your kids dishonesty is always the best course. I am sure they will grow up to admire your hypocrisy just as much as we do. Fingers crossed they forgive you 😉
I don't really care, why would I?
Anyway. Goodnight.
teaching your children that dishonesty is acceptable?
Well they just don't learn these kind of skills in school, I feel it my resposibility as a parent to educate them (joke before I get flamed)
Actually the school has to take a certain number of non catholic children from the area, so it's more likely that she got in that way. I didn't get her indoctrinated into the catholic church or anything, in fact I think the only lies was on the application letter where I expressed my admiration towards thier church and beliefs.... believe me that was very difficult for me, I still feel dirty for saying it.
Aren't their different levels of faith school?
Ie there are loads of C of E schools....My Dad is a head teacher at one, none of his children are christened/baptised...whatever, and he's worked tirelessly to beat the local minister into submission only allowing him 15 mins a week to talk religion. It is the only school in that village, to avoid it would mean a 20 min drive.
On the other hand there are full blown bible bashing Catholic schools where an hour+ a day is devoted to religious studies with nuns taking many of the classes?
If you're not religious and send your child to one of the latter... have a word with yourself!
As someone pointed out earlier, many children are abused by a family member. Be interested to see some statistics for what percentage of Catholic priests are in fact nonces.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/sep/07/if-only-catholic-church-did-pr
Only thing I could find: according to Ann Widdecombe, who is in favor of the catholic church: [i]"After all the dust had settled in America, 98% of priests were untouched by allegations, let alone convictions."[/i]
So Ann is showing off that only 1 in 50 priests have been formally accused of child abuse. But that is admittedly allegations. Given that we are talking about America, lets say half of the allegations are untrue and just people looking for a chance to sue. Thats [i]ONLY[/i] 1 in every 100 priests abusing children.
To be honest, I don't really believe it is that high. But isn't it worrying that Ann wasn't able to give a upper bound that was lower?
I respect him 'cos hes the Pope but the Catholic Church have an awful lot of owning up to do..
steve_b77 - Member
No intolerance, I'm married to a Catholic despite very strong Protestant roots.By we I mean the nation/government, allowing someone who knowingly harbored and allowed a sex offender to continue on their way, as shown in the link above into the UK.
Was he not invited by the goverment to visit?
Papal visit?! Those swines emptied my account after an ebay sale went bad.
The title of this thread has changed a day after it was posted, namely the spelling of the word Papal.
How did project do that?