Owen Paterson #Torysleaze

@big and daft…

I don’t think dazh was advocating mob rule? Rather he was expressing surprise that it hadn’t happened.

Yet again you seem to prefer to troll rather than discuss. Which is a pity as you have made multiple good points previously, in other threads.

I wonder what could be achieved with positivity rather than negativity?

Read that FT piece tonight, before the paywall is turned back on. FT is free to read today.

Definitely worth it while you can.

I wonder what could be achieved with positivity rather than negativity?

A unified common ground to get these Tory shysters out of office?

Rather he was expressing surprise that it hadn’t happened.

Also said it was a shame that it doesn’t happen. An MP was killed recently. We need to unseat MPs that we think aren’t working for us. In the meantime they should be allowed to work safely, and their offices should not be attacked.

A unified common ground to get these Tory shysters out of office?

This. The election system is rigged in the Conservative’s favour already, and planned changes will embed this further. We need to acknowledge that and game the system. Put only one candidate up against each of them, and encourage each other and others to support that candidate. If we don’t, they will take the piss even more in their next term.

I don’t think dazh was advocating mob rule?

Oh I don’t know, I reckon we could do with a bit of mob violence to shake people out of their complacency. Couldn’t be much worse than the suited Eton educated mob we’re already ruled by.

In the meantime they should be allowed to work safely

Why? The state commits acts of violence on thousands of people every day either directly or indirectly. And the people who run that state get to enrich themselves at the cost of everyone else with no fear of ever being held to account. They’re laughing at us. They think we’re idiots. And we are.

Oh I don’t know, I reckon we could do with a bit of mob violence to shake people out of their complacency

Careful what you wish for.

An MP was killed recently. We need to unseat MPs that we think aren’t working for us. In the meantime they should be allowed to work safely, and their offices should not be attacked.

This.

As much as I’d love to see it
north Shropshire has been a tory safe seat for nearly 2 centuries

Interesting. I just felt a strange and unusual sensation, which I think might be optimism. https://t.co/5uj63xHEnp

— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) November 4, 2021

Yeah, Paterson got almost 63% of the vote, and the turnout was pretty good too.

But even if they don’t have much hope of winning it’s still a good move. As the lib dems showed a while back you can make a good impression with offers of cooperation even if they’re basically meaningless. And an anti-sleaze candidate automatically makes the other party the sleaze party.

We need to unseat MPs that we think aren’t working for us.

The game is stacked in their favour. They designed the rules, they gerrymander constituencies, they disenfranchise huge numbers of people, they lie and obfuscate at will, they control the police and the courts, and they control the media to make sure their opponents aren’t heard. So please tell me how we get rid of them, because I can’t see how that’s possible within this rigged system. It needs something else.

That system can be gamed. And should be. It needs the public to wise up, and opposition politicians to wake up to the reality of carrying on as normal. Attacking MPs and their offices is not the answer.

Progressives need to wake up to the reality of the UK’s political system and electoral system, which has historically and will continue to overwhelming favour the Conservative Party.

To challenge their power, we're going to have to work together to work out how to stop them. pic.twitter.com/Eabyy3NMwT

— Clive Lewis MP (@labourlewis) May 7, 2021

The game is stacked in their favour. They designed the rules, they gerrymander constituencies, they disenfranchise huge numbers of people, they lie and obfuscate at will, they control the police and the courts, and they control the media to make sure their opponents aren’t heard. So please tell me how we get rid of them, because I can’t see how that’s possible within this rigged system. It needs something else.

Spoken like a true patriot.

The fightback needs a catchy name like “The Tea Party” or “Oath Keepers”.

The fightback needs a catchy name

If you’re referring to the US capitol insurrection I didn’t have much of a problem with that. It was good to finally see people rising up against a government that takes the piss out of them. It’s just a shame it was lead by rightwing nutters. The left could learn a thing or two, but as usual they’re too busy fighting amongst themselves for the scraps. Democracy, political institutions and politicians are only worth protecting if they serve the people. Can you honestly say the corrupt system we live under does that?

Has this been commented on?
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/upholding-standards-in-public-life-speech-by-lord-evans
Keynote speech by Lord Evans, chair of the Committee on Standards in Public Life; published on day of johnson’s latest u-turn and paterson’s resignation.

Then looking at cummings posts, he’s telling Starmer & co how to further expose johnson; c’mon Kier, do it.
The old mantra – follow the money still holds good and johnson is a venal turd who isn’t good at covering his tracks.

If you’re referring to the US capitol insurrection I didn’t have much of a problem with that.

Ah, the slipper wearing anarchist is back. You’ve been talking so much sense in recent days as well Dazh.

Anyone watch QT tonight?

Apparently Paterson’s actions are okay ‘cos he lost his wife and was quite ill himself recently. Can you imagine trying to get your ex-colleagues to use those excuses in a normal job?

I see they put some junior bag carrier muppet on to QT to defend the indefensible. I suppose we should just be grateful it wasn’t Helen Whately or Theresa Coffey

Duly savaged by Caroline Lucas and Emily Thornbury who pointed out that this is just Boris using this as an excuse to reform/neuter the authorities before they start looking into who paid for his own multiple free-holidaying, expensive wallpapering carrying on.

That **** from the Telegraph would make excuses for his mate/colleague Boris chucking kittens into a cement mixer

Ah, the slipper wearing anarchist is back.

There’s nothing like a good old sleaze scandal to jolt me out of my apathy. 😀

Even I forget sometimes the depths these scumbags (no I’m not apologising for that word) can reach. They deserve no respect, they deserve no sympathy, and ultimately they deserve no protection. If they want any of that they need at the very least to live by the same rules and norms of behaviour that we do. I’m not holding my breath.

@binners – be nice, that nice young man from The Torygraph only appeared tonight to help out his good friends.

He really did come from central casting, didn’t he?

Do you reckon they all get their haircuts at the same place as well as their suits from the same shop?

****s!

Emily Thornbury was at her sneering best. Caroline Lucas made a lot of sense

There’s nothing like a good old sleaze scandal to jolt me out of my apathy.

Really? It’s the sight of a self-serving Tory politician filling his boots what boils your piss?

It barely makes mine lukewarm.

If stamping out Tory sleaze is all that is required for you to retreat into a state of apathy then I can only marvel at how easy you are to satisfy.

Sadly I suspect that your attitude is one which you share with much of the wider public.

As much as I’d love to see it
north Shropshire has been a tory safe seat for nearly 2 centuries

Voting in a by-election is not like voting in the GE though. The voters know who the PM will be. The know ± 1 what the size of the majority will be. Many people probably don’t bother voting there because “if you stick a blue rosette on a pig it would win” – but if there is a perception that there might be a protest to be made that might make a difference those people might get off their arse, whilst some died in the wool tories may not be prepared to vote for anyone else but in a less consequential election might be willing to abstain as a protest. Add in the genuinely pissed off, who will switch from tory to anti-sleaze (assuming the candidate is palatable), and those who normally vote Lib/Lab/Green and really want to bloody the tories nose and suddenly it starts to look like a credible battle. If the tories don’t have a good candidate (and if you were that person in the local tory club itching to go to the big league would you go now in the midst of an embarrassing battle that might not go well, or would you let someone else take the fall and then swoop in at the next GE?). And then finally you have all the people who are not impressed with how the government are doing, but traditionally vote tory – they’ll not vote labour or green, might not vote lib dem but with a sensible independent candidate might be happy to express their displeasure. After all I’ve not seen anyone other than those intricately entwined in the conservative party top tier say this debacle was OK – and I don’t think anyone has tried to suggest any of the public want 2nd job MPs manipulating gov depts. I’ve never bet on an election but I’d consider it!

Caroline Lucas made a lot of sense

Not seen it. But can probably safely agree anyway. She rarely talks anything another than complete sense in my opinion. Hit us with a clip…

Found one…

“The idea that Jacob Rees-Mogg could just rock up in parliament yesterday and say ‘here’s a new committee’… was just never going to work.”
@CarolineLucas says “legwork” needs to go into changing policies, and suggests the PM is "looking after his own skin". #bbcqt pic.twitter.com/n3ceYJKfVA

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) November 4, 2021

More…

“You can’t just change the rules when you don’t like them.”@Carolinelucas asks how you can hold the Prime Minister to account when he is “judge, jury and court”. pic.twitter.com/Uua6pxatVY

— BBC Question Time (@bbcquestiontime) November 4, 2021

It’s the sight of a self-serving Tory politician filling his boots what boils your piss?

Not really. My apathy is mostly inspired by the failure of labour MPs to do their jobs. The difference there though is that they’ll do it for an MPs salary, whereas the tories demand much more.

It’s true though that my attitude towards MPs is shared with the wider public. I too think the vast majority of them are in it for themselves and are a waste of space.

My apathy is mostly inspired

Well that’s good to hear.

That **** from the Telegraph would make excuses for his mate/colleague Boris chucking kittens into a cement mixer

Lol. It wil be an interesting day when the Telegraph turns on this Government

Tory sleaze is an actual light-weight 90s diversion when so many are dying per day. Bit like wallpaper-gate.

Next week no one will care.

Labour yet again putting more effort into attacking the government with stuff like this than going hard against COVID response, poverty etc etc.

If Ian Dunt is excited then you probably need to look to the bigger picture.

Voting in a by-election is not like voting in the GE though. The voters know who the PM will be. The know ± 1 what the size of the majority will be. Many people probably don’t bother voting there because “if you stick a blue rosette on a pig it would win” – but if there is a perception that there might be a protest to be made that might make a difference those people might get off their arse, whilst some died in the wool tories may not be prepared to vote for anyone else but in a less consequential election might be willing to abstain as a protest.

And this is why the Opposition Parties – all of them – need to take the chance to put up a single independent anti-sleaze candidate. Will wake up the electorate a bit. Strike while the iron is hot and start setting a narrative instead of chasing one. FFS even the Mail would get behind it given the size of the majority being safe.

But reports suggest Labour thinks its too complicated. It really **** isn’t.

Yep, looks like it isn’t going to happen
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59167967

I think its extremely interesting that the left blame everything but themselves for their poor performance at the polls

Its the system
Its the voters that don’t understand
Its the media
etc, etc

The UK public want an aspirational government not one that talks down the country, the whole image is wrong.

They seem to be obsessed by making rich people poorer, does not matter what happens to the poor as long as long as Starbucks are poorer. They would be so happy if we all had nothing, because the rich people have lost.

The current government seem to be running a popularity contest, we have a chancellor who is out spending a Labour chancellor. I can only assume this is to take everyone’s eye off the cluster **** that is brexit. Johnson is the luckiest PM in history, he could not have wished for something better than COVID to distract people from the current shit storm in Europe.

I have always been of the opinion that if you don’t vote you can’t moan sort of thing. In the last two election I went into the voting booth and just stared at the voting slip and thought what the hell do I do here.

But reports suggest Labour thinks its too complicated. It really **** isn’t.

Its libdems that apparently said this

I’m sceptical regardless of who they put up, a 200 year majority, 40% majority at the last few elections, 70+% leave constituency

Tories drop in a local brexiteer and its all theirs

Yip. Fire up the culture war, get the dog whistles out and wave those flags

Its the system
Its the voters that don’t understand
Its the media

Well, because this is largely true. The ‘system’ is rigged in favour of those with wealth and privilege; this is just a simple fact. The voters largely don’t actually understand all the finer nuances of politics and ideology, and the mainstream media at least is mainly owned and controlled by right wing concerns. Social media can and is manipulated by those with lots of money, to spread propaganda. so it’s hardly that the Left ‘blames’ these factors for the current mess; they’re simply stating facts.

They seem to be obsessed by making rich people poorer, does not matter what happens to the poor as long as long as Starbucks are poorer. They would be so happy if we all had nothing, because the rich people have lost.

See your own comment about ‘the voters don’t understand’. Because this is just utter rubbish. The goal of the Left is to create equality amongst all, regardless of privilege of birth, wealth, etc. And if that makes a few obscenely rich people a bit ‘poorer, so that the rest of us can have a more fair share, then so be it. I’m all for that. Anyone who spends their disposable income on ‘space travel’, whilst many of their employees struggle to make ends meet and have to piss in **** bottles because they’re not allowed to have toilet breaks, then they have too much money, and it should be redistributed more fairly. I can’t understand how any intelligent, right-minded person who believes in democracy, freedom and equality, could argue against that.

In the last two election I went into the voting booth and just stared at the voting slip and thought what the hell do I do here.

It’s a fair point. You’re definitely not alone.

L

In the last two election I went into the voting booth and just stared at the voting slip and thought what the hell do I do here

Would sir like his huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?

That the choice at the last election was those pair of muppets is the most damning indictment imaginable of our failed political system.

The answer is always to vote for whatever reduces the chance of a Tory victory, but dear god the Labour Party make that hard work

That the choice at the last election was those pair of muppets is the most damning indictment imaginable of our failed political system

Here he goes… :D

As for the real reason for Starmer’s absence at he vote; he probably looked at the tories with their sleaze, and just thought ‘pots and kettles’.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1472393/labour-party-news-sir-keir-starmer-donors-access-rose-network-chair-circle

Starmer selling access to front-benchers for £500. Plus VAT. Online

https://www.businessinsider.com/keir-starmer-linked-labour-group-fined-14k-failure-declare-donations-2021-9?r=US&IR=T

. Anyone who spends their disposable income on ‘space travel’

Its all relative how about people who spend their disposable income on driving to BPW to ride their E-Bike while people South Sudan are struggling to eat. Or even owning an iPhone while they starve, It’s the same, just does not fit the narrative, the narrative is its always the fault of the government and the rich.

We had 13 years of a Labour government and by and large, it was a pretty reasonable showing. However when faced with actually running the country they realised it was not as easy as just taxing the rich and giving it to the poor. In fact you might say they behaved exactly like the previous government. Shame they took us into a illegal war at the end, deffo cast a shadow over that whole time.

Good article about the wheels falling off

Iain Duncan Smith, the former Conservative leader, worked particularly hard lobbying the 2019 intake of Tory MPs, who were less likely to know Paterson. “I’m going to be putting my neck on the line for someone who literally wouldn’t recognise me in a corridor,” one grumbled.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/04/absolute-madness-circus-around-an-mp-that-riled-the-commons

It’s the same, just does not fit the narrative, the narrative is its always the fault of the government and the rich.

What if it mostly is though? One person not going to BPW isn’t going to save the planet – even everyone on this forum doing it won’t make much difference. People like Jeff Bezos have the power to make real meaningful change.

They would be so happy if we all had nothing, because the rich people have lost.

Yes you’re right this is the idiotic premise that many of the electorate believe.

Oh wait, this is what you actually think… 🤦‍♂️

Good lord, the Express used as a source

And Skwarkbox, that reminded me to check where the libel case they lost ended up. Thanks for the nudge.

Its all relative how about people who spend their disposable income on driving to BPW to ride their E-Bike while people South Sudan are struggling to eat. Or even owning an iPhone while they starve, It’s the same, just does not fit the narrative, the narrative is its always the fault of the government and the rich.

Bollocks. Bezos is an employer, and as such has a moral (at least) responsibility towards the welfare of all his employees. It’s literally his fault that his employees are struggling to make ends meet and having to piss in bottles because they can’t afford to take toilet breaks. So your analogy or whatever it was you were attempting, doesn’t hold water.

We had 13 years of a Labour government and by and large, it was a pretty reasonable showing.

Reasonable? That government laid the foundations for the shitshow we’re now all watching unfold!

In fact you might say they behaved exactly like the previous government.

Funny, that, eh?

Shame they took us into a illegal war

Yeah; shame that countless numbers of innocent people died or were maimed, shame that millions were displaced and traumatised, shame that an entire region was massively destabilised. But at least the rich didn’t get any poorer, eh?