Owen Paterson #Torysleaze

To be fair the less time a Tory backbencher spends being a Tory MP the happier I am.

Eg. Smart old Coxy.

Probably got told about it by Chris Bryant

I don’t have a problem with it, they have to have a second home or stay in a hotel so should be entitled to claim for a modest amount of rent, owning another property is irrelevant, it is just an investment decision. If they have a significant share portfolio should they be forced to sell up and use it to buy a second home?

I’d like to see MP’s position have a maximum career length,

Good idea. Maybe 8 years to see them though around 2-3 elections. Would at least remove the incumbent safe seat can do what they bloody want MPs.

Interestingly I think now this is going to be a major theme for the media for a while yet, as there’s just so much of it. Stories that were passed over before are now “News-worthy” to add to the overall rolling story, so all the other stories are being printed and discussed in a way that they probably wouldn’t have been, and all self inflicted by Johnson inept handling of the Patterson suspension.

Probably got told about it by Chris Bryant

10 years later… loophole still open.

I don’t have a problem with it

I do. Someone here suggested that the state provide the London accommodation. Seems sound to me. Remove the “investment decision” from the individual MP.

To be fair the less time a Tory backbencher spends being a Tory MP the happier I am.

Fair point

With the traction this is getting with even their usually loyal press lap-dogs they must be getting pretty twitchy about the enquiry into the snouts-in-the-trough free for all that was the Covid contracts.

I expect they’ll now be franticly trying to hobble that before it starts

Time to drop another tenner at the GLP.

I like the concept of the Red Wall intake contributing to the demise of the Tories in their current form. Unintended consequences.

It’s simple self-preservation. They are all sat on paper-thin majorities (my new Tory MP has a majority of 100 votes)

A few people yesterday were commenting that an 80 grand salary isn’t that unusual. That may be the case In Surrey, in Burnley… not so much

The new intake are astute enough to realise that in these ‘left behind’ places who are still only flirting with voting Tory, MP Barristers earning a million quid for their extracurricular activities is about as far removed from day to day reality as it’s possible to get. And it is not playing well

Remove the “investment decision” from the individual MP.

So the MP just continues to rent it out, so nothing is achieved, yep that sounds llke the dumb sort of policy you would get behind.

ernielynch
Free Member
To be fair the less time a Tory backbencher spends being a Tory MP the happier I am.

Good point!

Im betting that Tories will be a point or 2 behind in the next few polls, whether that will last, Im not so sure

weve becme numb to 200+ dying every day from covid so endless tory sleaze wont change much

Polls are a barometer of public feeling, not voting intentions.

I do understand that 80k is a hell of a lot of money in Dyche land but down in the SE it just isn’t. Different country almost.

Anyhow, my concept of paying MP’s a higher salary whilst removing expenses wasn’t meant to make them richer, just more open to scrutiny.

If the proletariat are outraged at MP’s wages at the moment they would be apoplectic with rage at the thought of them earning double (Even though in real terms this would not be the case). If they could translate that rage into holding their local MP to greater scrutiny rather than chiming along with a bit of tabloid rage that wouldn’t be a bad thing would it?

Another perk loophole, now closed to new MPs, is the appointment of family members as staff. There are a number of MPs paying spouse £50k a year as secretarial staff.

So the MP just continues to rent it out, so nothing is achieved, yep that sounds llke the dumb sort of policy you would get behind.

If they can’t claim rent, instead they are offered a London home provided for them to use, then they can’t find ways for that rent money to be turned into an “investment”. Same goes for offices. Remove the chance for individual MPs to decided how the money is spent. If we are providing them with accommodation, and I think we should, the only benefit they should get from that is the use of the accommodation, not the chance to direct the money to where/who they see fit.

You can’t do anything about money given to them to choose to spend (on their own mortgage payments, or rental payments to a contact) in the past. But you can reduce the opportunities for any more “expenses” being “invested” by MPs in the future.

Anyhow, my concept of paying MP’s a higher salary whilst removing expenses wasn’t meant to make them richer, just more open to scrutiny.

So you’ll be offering different salaries to MP’s of near/far constituencies?

The last time I heard this, I used the analogy of 2 Salesmen, one who lived in London and who’s patch was inside the M25, the other lived in Glasgow and their patch was the Scotland (smaller population). Salaries the same but the one in Glasgow would have vastly greater expenses, for doing the same job. Daft.

Who an MP pays rent to is an irrelevance where there is an open market which there is. State provided accommodation is a dreadful idea, it would like much state housing be expensive and shoddy, and pretty inhumane, unless very generous, as it essentially deprives MPs of the opportunity to have a weekday family life.

Im betting that Tories will be a point or 2 behind in the next few polls, whether that will last, Im not so sure

If I were a betting man, i’d put money on Cox still being my constituency MP for the foreseeable, and getting another thumping majority at the next GE.

Inhumane?

I wasn’t suggesting making MPs live in the shoddy homes that millions of normal Brits do. I meant very nice and convenient for parliament family homes that would be maintained and held by the state. But now you’ve mentioned it… weekday accommodation akin to the small low quality accommodation many people have to use as their only home might be a bit of a learning experience…

I do understand that 80k is a hell of a lot of money . . . but down in the SE it just isn’t.

It is and you appear to be really out of touch with those of us that earn significantly less than £30k a year and live in the SE. If £80k means one has to live in a Southall Terrace for housing because a Surrey 4 bed is not affordable that’s what one does. One does not bellyache that you wage is too small and you are owed a bigger house.

very nice and convenient for parliament family homes that would be maintained and held by the state.

Which would cost multiples of what they are presently entitled to, their present rent allowance gets them a two bed flat reasonably close to parliament.

would cost multiples of what they are presently entitled to

I wasn’t claiming the idea would be any cheaper (in the short term), I was agreeing with the idea of supporting MPs to do their work directly, rather than letting them choose where their expenses money goes. If we want our MPs to be able to perform their roles AND we want them not to personally profit through their expenses, then direct support (state supplied and owed accommodation near Parliament and constituency offices) is a way that could be delivered. Keep the “investment decisions” in the hands of MPs, and they will try to make sure that money designed to support them in their work makes them money.

Are you going to put microphones into the walls too?

That video’s pretty funny.

Spoiler for

Great Mitchell & Webb reference at the end.

Work should reimburse ANY costs that are spent to do a job, but the problem we have is a system that for lots of these ‘expenses’ they shouldn’t be lumped in with MP Expenses. Offices, staff, infrastructure – these should be provided by the State and used by whoever is the MP at the time.

I agree about things like offices not being a sensible “expense” (rather than just a fixed infrastructure cost) and staff clearly aren’t and shouldn’t be labelled as such but I think if you have a major political swing there would be some difficulty in staff switching over. Interestingly some (or maybe all) of the SNP candidates use a shared pool of staff – that seems a much more logical solution. You have holiday, illness, ma/paternity cover, when someone loses an election good people don’t automatically need to be made redundant etc. And looking at the local MP those costs seem to be a fraction of what would be paid for a full time staff member.

Are you going to put microphones into the walls too?

Yes, because any changes to restrict opportunities for MPs making extra money is akin to something the soviets would do, isn’t it.

Building Government apartment blocks is pretty Eaastern Bloc like, I remember seeing them when I visited East Berlin.

I am yet to see a case of an MP making money through the “new” expense scheme.

Who said apartment blocks? Who said build something new? Who said have the MPs living together? The only thing that was said is the government owns the buildings, to be used by future MPs as well as current ones, rather than leaving it to the MPs to make “investment decisions”. Grace and favour homes for ministers aren’t “soviet”, are they.

Who an MP pays rent to is an irrelevance where there is an open market which there is.

It’s not entirely an irrlevance – I doubt there is any scrutiny that you are paying fair market rate. e.g. if you pay £2000 a month (which is probably not unusual for someone in London with a nice family sized pad) but are actually renting somewhere smaller from an associate where you benefit long term. At the very least renting from anyone linked to you creates an air of impropriety, and that’s the sort of thing people get upset about, and anyone capable of being elected should have enough intelligence and foresight to ask themselves – how will it appear if I rent a flat from my sister-in-law rather than rent an identical property from a stranger.

State provided accommodation is a dreadful idea, it would like much state housing be expensive and shoddy, and pretty inhumane, unless very generous, as it essentially deprives MPs of the opportunity to have a weekday family life.

Well it doesn’t need to be, Her Majesty and her offspring seem to have very comfortable state-provided accommodation and much of the cabinet have state-provided accommodation that whilst hideously decorated seems to be humane and able to support family life. However I’m quite sure if they had to live in a high rise with shoddy cladding they’d all be a bit more motivated to get it fixed!

First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

Full Results (10 Nov):

Lab 38% (+2)
Con 36% (-1)
Lib Dem 10% (–)
Green 6% (–)
SNP 4% (-1)
Reform UK 3% (-2)
Other 1% (–)

Changes +/- 8 Nov

Follow us to see if Labour will hold its lead on Monday at 5pm.https://t.co/KQ4vFPFxSf pic.twitter.com/2qHghTf71v

— Redfield & Wilton Strategies (@RedfieldWilton) November 11, 2021

I don’t know if it no longer happens but they used to run a nice scam where two mps would each buy a house and rent it to the other and inflated rents – so they still get their house paid for and trouser a nice profit off expenses.

Mefty – you really think they are not abusing the current scheme ( apologies for forgetting it changed)

So you are going to buy houses now, so how much are you setting aside – I reckon £1 billion should do it.

Grace and favour homes for ministers aren’t “soviet”, are they.

There are only 5 of them in London.

Sandwich,

I earn less than 30k a year myself. I’m not out of touch, I’m just not presumptuous like you are.

If you want to earn more then you can throw your hat in the ring and stand in your local election.

I see no one here has said they’d be happy to be an MP for 30k a year or so.

I see no one here has said they’d be happy to be an MP for 30k a year or so.

I would be. Its my belief that we would actually get a better standard of MPS if the remuneration was cut and all the absurd expenses and legalised bribes. We would get folk with a public service ethos not snouts in troughs

Even in the south east £80 000 is a lot of money.

I would vote for you TJ!

(well if I lived in Leith I would, but lets not revisit that conversation)

:-)

Sweden has state accomodation for MPs who live more than 30 miles from paliament – and a very tight and transparent system of expenses. The MPs get a free use of a moderate sized flat – but they are only there to sleep on weekdays ( like our mps) as they eat and work in th parliament building and go to constituencies at weekends

They seem to have a very well functioning and respected system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8339465.stm

Whereas our system is well open to abuse, its full of MPs with snouts in troughs and taking bribes ( yes thats exactly what IDS, Kwateng and loads of others did)

Its astonishing the contortions people go to to defend the indefensible around westminster. FFS they get cheap food and booze on our money!

First Labour Lead in Voting Intention in a Year.

Might be for Redfield & Wilton Strategies. But otherwise not true.

And it seems a bit bizarre that Redfield & Wilton Strategies should release this poll only 2 days after releasing another one which gave a Tory lead. General speaking pollsters wait a lot longer than 2 days between their national polls.

Anyway that’s the third poll since January to give Labour a lead. Which seems a small price, so far at least, for such a huge blunder.

it would like much state housing be expensive and shoddy,

State housing is typically cheaper and better quality than the private rented sector.

Cox not just rich but greedy & milking the system it seems

https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1458777200128311296?t=QJS4-acXlB6eEc8t7iw0Mg&s=19