Our forefathers, were they nails?

I think Crikey maybe has missed the point so far.

Folk did what they had to do. They had no / less choices. Now we have MORE choices. Sure some folk cheated then, some now, but in my parents generation cycling 100 miles return to see a loved one was “normal” – doing 100 miles in X time was normal, doing Y was for the elite.

I cant comment on the elite – its not in my family!

I’m suggesting that the exploits of Mr Riis are best considered in the light of his nickname.

…and I fully agree that the modern day mountain biker or even road biker does considerably less than even I did when I started. The classic Peak district day out now starts with a drive. We used to ride there from east Manchester then ride home.

This thread reminds me of what I used to do when I was younger and makes me amazed/horrified that I no longer do it. Used to work full time in London, gig 2-3 times a week, cycle and swim regularly (often riding 20+ miles to swim), grow my own veg and do my own DIY. Now I still work full time, but locally, just about manage a couple of short rides a week, a couple of nights for hobbies and play about twice a month. I can afford to pay someone to do the household maintenance and havn’t grown any veg in decades. What has happened to me? Can’t be all down to the internet and TV can it???

Not riding but… my mum and gran often tell stories of how far they used to have to walk to school, work etc. At Christmas we stayed in a hotel just under 2 miles from my sister’s house. When we insisted on walking it they were horrified.

my wifes grandparents are both 90, a few weeks ago her grandad had a minor stroke. When he came home social services called round saying they had come to help him. She told them to get lost. Stubborn maybe but they have the we’ll just get on with it attitude which is sadly lacking now.

Something that constantly astonishes me in my job (Paramedic) is stories like this one. There is a definite attitude shift nowadays and the younger they are the more they ‘expect’. I’ve seen umpteen older people with serious injuries or ailments who can’t apologise enough for the ‘inconvenience’, contrasting with the little shits who haven’t done a days work in their life and yet expect and demand immediate attention for a minor injury, often self-inflicted.

Generalising of course but maybe this mindset is one reason why some oldies were tougher than their modern equivalent, that, coupled with fewer entertainment options and greater austerity produced a far more determined attitude.

my wifes grandparents are both 90, a few weeks ago her grandad had a minor stroke. When he came home social services called round saying they had come to help him. She told them to get lost. Stubborn maybe but they have the we’ll just get on with it attitude which is sadly lacking now.

It’s probbly got more to do with old folk’s fear of having to pay for medical assistance; people of that age wooduv grown up in a Britain without an NHS, so would be loathe to use a service that would cost them money, more than it is to do with them being ‘tough’. Old habits die hard. My mum used to deal with loads of OAPs who din’t want to get a doctor round to see them cos they ‘coodunt afford it’. 🙁 That, and older folk can be highly suspicious of modern technology (see the MPs/Twitter thread. Ahem…), and also the fact that they may be very fearful of being put in a home or something by social services.

I have a neighbour like this; he is dying of emphysema, can’t cope by himself day to day, but refuses to allow social services to send someone round to help him out, as he thinks this will lead to him completely losing whatever independence he has left. Daft old bugger fails to see that his quality of life could be improved considerably, he woon’t have to live in squalor, and he woon’t have to suffer so much stress.

It’s a shame, when technology/modern life overtakes people. The world they knew is disappearing, and the new one is too fast and frightening for them.

That, and older folk can be highly suspicious of modern technology

and modern society..

there’s many of the more isolated old folks who have been conditioned by the fearmongering media to believe that any stranger attempting to enter their home is out to rob their pension and steal their identity..

My dad took a single speed road bike over black sail pass in the 50s, he regularly used to ride 100+ mile days on the same bike

people of that age wooduv grown up in a Britain without an NHS, so would be loathe to use a service that would cost them money, more than it is to do with them being ‘tough

Not IME. It is very unlikely to be a fear of having to pay but very likely to do with your other remarks re fear of losing their independence and a misplaced sense of pride.

I believe woody to be right on this

It is very unlikely to be a fear of having to pay but very likely to do with your other remarks re fear of losing their independence and a misplaced sense of pride.

Definitely the latter, no question, but you’d be amazed just how many old folk seem to think medical attention is going to cost them money. Maybe not so much these days, but many of the OAPs my mum worked certainly thought so. Mind you, many of them were quite senile as well, so that woodun’t have helped.

My point was that many older folk don’t see stuffs as being ‘free’, like people do today. They don’t have the same sense of entitlement, and don’t take things for granted.

As for the being ‘tougher’ bit; well, people used to die a good bit younger on average, and not be as knowledgeable about placing the heart and body under too much strain, things we know more about today.

And this discussion is vey British/Euro centric. People where my dad’s from stiill work just as hard as they did when he were a lad; nowt much has changed there really. It’s only really in developed affluent nations that people’s lives have got much easier.

As for the tales of amazing endeavour; whilst undoubtedly some are true, there are many that aren’t, and like all good stories, have bin embellished over time. There were very little ways to verify claims back then, so I’d imagine a fair bit of overexagerration went on. Like the grandfather of one of me mates, who used to ‘regularly ride x hundred miles’ in the North West somewhere, when the truth was, according to his wife, he did it two or three times ever, and the actual distance he claimed is considerable further than what it actually is.

And as for stuff like the TdF etc; loads of them were on drugs. Testing din’t exist, and even when it did, it was nowhere near as advanced as it is today.

Today’s athletes are stronger, fitter and faster. Advances in diet, training etc mean that even taking equipment development into account, today’s riders would still be quicker.

Read this a while back Around the world on a Bicycle

In 1884, Thomas Stevens left San Francisco on a Columbia high-wheeler with the outrageous goal of becoming the first man to ride a bicycle across the United States. When he reached Boston, he decided to continue around the world, and soon sailed to London for the ride across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. The high-wheeler was heavy and cumbersome, his supplies were limited to socks, a spare shirt, and a slicker that doubled as tent and bedroll, and much of the country he traversed was wild. Yet he persevered, recording his colorful and often harrowing adventures during the three-year odyssey in a classic of 19th century adventure and travel writing.

Barking mad bloke, who seems to have survived on his innate self belief and Colonial arrogance. Good read though 🙂

Tales like that illustrate my point about over-exaggeration and the lack of verification perfectly.

He went on his own, so no-one to verify his claims. In order to do such a thing he would undoubtedly have bin quite wealthy, so we don’t know if he stayed in hotels and stuff really, do we? Was he accompanied by support teams for parts of his journey?

I’m sure there’s probbly a lot of truth in such stories. But the lack of verifiable evidence makes me take such tales with a pinch of salt. Call me Cynic-Al, but he wooduv also had a vested inertest in selling his book, so he’s going to make it as awesome as possible, in’t he?

i have a little (non cycling) anecdote about how hard they were 2 generations back. when i was 18/19 my mother had a smallholding and the hay had been cut but not turned and due to crap weather no one was able to come and turn in for us. her neighbour who was in his 70’s came up and said “we have to turn that or you’ll loose the whole crop” i explained about no tractors available and he chuckle and came back with 2 pitch forks. now i was fit then, i was working hard on building sites 6 days a week at the time doing groundwork or blockwork but was proper shown up by a pensioner. we started at opposite ends of each field and every time he met me 3/4 of the way across. i was down to shorts and no top and he was in a tweed jacket, barely breaking a sweat. the next day i went round to see if he was ok as i could barely walk and he was digging his garden over!
he was an amazing man – thank you Elvrin, for that and every other time you saved our bacon 😉

Ooh, not looking good for Citeh now…

Jonah’s post shows there’s a lot to be said for just knowing how to work hard and do stuff. Reminds me a bit of working in the orchards in Tasmania- as a fit 25 year old I’d look at the lardy 40- 50 year olds packing 10 bins a day with fags hanging out of their mouths and think “I can do at least what they can”. I couldn’t though.

My Mum was a school girl during the war and regularly had to walk to school in Aldershot from Fleet. Not a journey I would fancy today, but they just got on with it..what was the alternative? I know the effect of a boys school near her’s being hit by a doodlebug has never left her. She and the mother of a friend of mine are both incredible stoics – trying to get them to realise they are sometimes ill and need to see a medical professional is always a struggle. My Dad, who served in the RAF during the war was just the same. He cycled miles as a boy in the 1930s (Heads of the Valley road from Cardiff most weekends) and was fit as anything right up to the last couple of years of his life- he barely let a triple by-pass slow hime down and stop him doing what he wanted.

It’s mainly about what you are used to.

Look at the poor people in africa, women/children walking for miles and miles to get water and then carring back a 25 litre container full, not many on here could do that……

Oh wait a minute, you could all do that if you needed the water. You could all do that every day, after a few weeks it would not be so hard.

we have become softer because life has become easier, we all could do what our grandparents could do.