Osbourne says no to currency union.

The risk losing your business and life savings can make people a little irrational. Not an excuse, but may’be an explanation.

Possibly and it is an interesting question [ I confess i had never even thought about it] as to what business can and cannot do in an election [ neutrality IMHO is the best option] IMHO it is ultra vires of the fiduciary relationship to allow them to “influence” employees. They have no say here it is a matter of conscience and way outside the employer employee relationship.

I suppose it may be ok if there were strict rules to say how you think you might be affected and let folk decide.

On mobile costs I wonder if the phone companies will charge international roaming when crossing the border ?

Given that the EU is about to abolish them within it’s borders, I’d doubt it.

Why does it have to be through wages? There are other ways to increase productivity

Indeed there are – amazing that under devolved power little has been done about it? Still the DO will magic these improvements overnight, his little venture into this topic lasted about 48 hours which is not bad for him.

Longer term, he will be implementing plenty of Tory policies – starting with inducing companies into Scotland with policies such a tax brakes. Do you think he has a picture of Mrs T on his mirror?

All the productivity gap really shows is that Scottish businesses aren’t well served being part of the Union.

Oh dear….!

I do like the USDAW letter. “Please do not leave it to others to decide what’s best for you, PS, vote NO”

a wee bit salmold esque in tone

😆

IMHO it is ultra vires of the fiduciary relationship to allow them to “influence” employees

I thought people on both sides were complaining about the other side’s lack of clarity. Is it really a bad thing for companies to provide information on the likely effects of the vote going a particular way? (FWIW I agree with your “salmond esque” comment – could have been done so much better, but then that’s corporations – and Westminster style politicians – for you).

Not much comment on the union letter? Is that because unions routinely “advise” their members on voting?

“Please do not leave it to others to decide what’s best for you, PS, vote NO”

There’s no actual contradiction in that statement, NW – especially given that your precis of the second part isn’t quite accurate.

Given that the EU is about to abolish them within it’s borders, I’d doubt it.

I don’t think EU law applies outside the EU (you can read that whichever way you like 😉 )

Not much comment on the union letter? Is that because unions routinely “advise” their members on voting?

All the time.

They should be helping folk plan for their pensions and the fact that no state is going to be able to adequately provide for people in their old age – oh, except McUtopia

YS supporters misquoting clear evidence (the union stuff) again…..

I don’t think EU law applies outside the EU (you can read that whichever way you like )

Ah well, if the English want to be charged extra for making calls every time they come mountain biking up here they know what to do 😉

The tweeting of that company letter does remind me of a thought that occured to me. As much as the Yes campaign has been driven by social media – and has dominated the social media – I suspect there is a large proportion of social media users keeping quiet on this (a few have mentioned that on this thread). A large proportion who aren’t hardcore Yes supporters. It’s all very well retweeting stuff like that around all your mates who are voting yes anyway, but I have to wonder amongst all the happy back slapping from the Yes social media users whether in the same way that people are made more inclined to vote Yes by the corporations telling them to vote No there aren’t some people who see this and decide to vote No. I mean there might just be some people who read that tweet and think “actually McAlpine are right”.

Ah well, if the English want to be charged extra for making calls every time they come mountain biking up here they know what to do

I wonder what the impact will be for mountain biking, will iS keep funding the forestry commission in the same way? As I should imagine money is going to be tight for quite a while, so if they can save cash or sell assets they will

The irony of Salmond attacking the BBC for the Treausry “leak” is that they were scooped by ITV, they were merely following the story without crediting the true source – which is a pretty common complaint about the BBC by other media outlets.

@mefty is that right ? That’s quite funny really give AS’s anti-establishment rhetoric, twas the ITV all along.

Not much comment on the union letter? Is that because unions routinely “advise” their members on voting?

Apologies on that I thought I did comment.
I would leave a union that advised me which way to vote on this issue as I consider it to be a cross party matter of conscience.
In general they do advise, sort of. For example they can say who they are supporting and why in say a Labour election.
To some degree joining a union is optional [ and political] so I guess you expect it. Personally i just dont read that stuff.

Is it really a bad thing for companies to provide information on the likely effects of the vote going a particular way?

Probably but it is worthy of debate. I think they need to set the tone very careful or else it is just political rhetoric mixed with DOOM and an implicit or explicit threat. Fundamentally it is also none of their business how i vote so I am not fully comfortable with it. if it does happen it needs rules – I can always drag the state and red tape into it – there you go both of unhappy with it perfect solution:wink:

They[unions] should be helping folk plan for their pensions and the fact that no state is going to be able to adequately provide for people in their old age – oh, except McUtop

You really think this is the role of a union? You really think this would get them elected? I think most union types would argue they need to campaign [ locally , nationally and politically] to get the state pension guaranteed for all rather than promote a thatcherite agenda of looking after yourself whilst suggesting the state pension will end.
That last claim is also unlikely to be true – its has been triple locked in a recession even when many pensioners are pretty well off compared to say the unemployed or the disabled.

The Forestry Commission has a “mixed” record when it comes to mountain biking just google Carron Valley Development Group to see the negative side of things.

The DOs allegation re a so-called RBS leak (actually bluffing to shut Robinson up) have been refuted clearly. It was his usual trick. Note how quickly he started to stutter and stumble as he had walked into an area that he clearly didn’t really understand. The bluster suddenly went as did the credibility.

At least blair carried off BS with an air of authority for all his sins. Same smug grins though.

Probably but it is worthy of debate. I think they need to set the tone very careful or else it is just political rhetoric mixed with DOOM and an implicit or explicit threat. Fundamentally it is also none of their business how i vote so I am not fully comfortable with it.

For a public company, they are really obliged to comment on the implications for them of a decision so there should be no complaint about them doing so. For a private company, I think it is perfectly reasonable for the company to outline the implications of a decision so that employees are aware of the impact on their jobs as long as there is no threat of sanction if anyone doesn’t toe the party line.

We made no comment to staff formally and there’s been no real request to know what the company position is.

Anyone from the Yes side care to distance themselves from Mr Sillars?

No, not intimidating in the slightest…

@Big we are all posting our personal views here, credibility is not a factor.

Not for you, obviously

However, as for me, well, I’m off. 2 weeks of watching shinty, riding on steam trains, ferry trips to the islands and wildlife watching. The Highlands, Orkney and Islay. Possibly even a flight in a microlight and definitely a scuba dive in Scapa Flow. Och jings, I’ll need tae get kilt on for all this Scottishness.

Do have fun

Yes I linked to they itv tweet on page 310 of this thread when it broke, no mention on BBC websites at the time.

Still not happy as WTF has it got to do with them how their employees vote?
There is no obligation to do this at all hence why your company did not

as i said they can perhaps state some facts about what it may mean for the business but they have to be done as facts and not as a political point.

You also have to remember some people know nothing about politics. They cannot tell you anything about any of the political parties or what they stand for and being told what to do by an authority figure who tells them what to do all the time may be rather persuasive. when this message is a CAPS LOCK VOTE YES AND LOOSE YOUR JOB it is even more concerning.I do not see how it can occur without regulation tbh.

In general I think anyone can comment on election but when corporations start telling employees what to vote it just does not sit well with me. It is none of their business and it is not a T & C that they give me political and /or voting advice. Furthermore it is done as to what is best for them not what is best for me so it is barely even advice.

an interesting issue though as to what they can and cannot say
The letter above is poor though and they could have said the same thing in a much better way.

There is no obligation to do this

I’m afraid there is if you’re a listed company. I can’t be bothered looking it up for you, but the obligations to consider and inform shareholders on risks to the business are quite strong.

we are discussing employees not shareholders* and they were doing more than inform about what it might mean.

* you are correct they have to say but I dont know the exact legal duty either- THM may know this

Sorry: currency

Is there anything to stop iS declaring sterling as currency and borrowing reserves in the open market to hold in reserve? I don’t think that requires Ruk permission does it?

Next: BoE can’t really deny sterling liquidity to any Scottish bank prepared to put up the collateral without putting at risk sterlings external value? Dunno? Maybe?

So Scotland couldn’t print or devalue, but those things come with cost, so that in of itself would lend a certain rigour to any regulation that iS imposes. (See Russia, Venezuela Nigeria)

Brain dump, sorry. It’s all a distraction from who gets the oil though 😉

@BigBut – have fun, it sounds like you need the time to unwind 😉

@JY an employer seems within their rights to explain the impact of the vote on their businesses and I would imagine the employees would be interested to know that. I suppose you could argue the note should stop before suggesting which way to vote.

@oldbloke – blimey he’s totally barking mad !! Nationalise BP and the banks to face a day of reckoning 😯 Well you cannot nationalise companies if you are in the EU and Mr Sillars will find there are no banks in Scotland and then he’ll be ****.

This referendum is about power, and when we get a ‘Yes’ majority we will use that power for a day of reckoning with BP and the banks.

“The heads of these companies are rich men, in cahoots with a rich English Tory Prime Minister, to keep Scotland’s poor poorer through lies and distortions. The power they have now to subvert our democracy will come to an end with a ‘Yes’.

“BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have been forced to be.

“As for the bankers: your casino days, rescued by socialisation of your liabilities while you waltz off with the profits, will be over.”

Mr Sillars added: “What kind of people do these companies think we are? They will find out.”

Also as a small ish country devaluation is a limited response ( no real alternatives to imports anyway, and oil priced in dollars )

See, all about the oil….

Well you cannot nationalise companies if you are in the EU

Possibly Mr Sillars knows something that AS is in denial about? 🙂

So basically, it’s degenerated into a bollocks-fest.

Great win for democracy.. ok…

So basically, it’s degenerated into a bollocks-fest.

Did you really think it wouldn’t? 😀

I did see an earlier comment about the English NOT behaving in a petty way to the post Yes vote……well personally i believe the English have a massive capacity to be petty and will cut off Scotland at the knees. (seriously)

As for Scots heading south to get a job, forget it!

Knees? barely even started!

September 19th:

😈

we are discussing employees not shareholders* and they were doing more than inform about what it might mean.

If you go back to the old notion about no taxation without representation then given the levels of tax paid by businesses who can’t vote, there’s an engagement deficit if they are to remain silent.

Corporate Social Responsibility and increasing employee engagement has been developing for ages with the expectation that employees should be informed of major issues affecting the company for which they work.

Looking at it from those two points of view it is reasonable for a company to communicate its point of view.

“As for the bankers: your casino days, rescued by socialisation of your liabilities while you waltz off with the profits, will be over.”

….. and yet it was Salmond who offered Fred Goodwin “any assistance my office can provide” during the disastrous take over of ABN – and we all know where that lead

The SNP can’t wash the smell off it’s hands from the banking crisis, they encouraged the reckless activities just as much as others did.

oldbloke – Member

If you go back to the old notion about no taxation without representation then given the levels of tax paid by businesses who can’t vote, there’s an engagement deficit if they are to remain silent.

Corporations are people too

Out of the 30 odd people at work. We have three Yes voters. 2 of them are Yes because they just think that Scotland should be a Nation again, local democracy etc. But don’t think anything will change particularly if Yes happens. One is English, but wants to set up a People’s Republic of Socialist Scotland and therefore sees Independence as a way to gerrymander a left wing government.
It was interesting listening to them discussing the point today to realize there are going to be some very surprised/disappointed people on the Yes side if Yes goes through.

Go Jimbo Go!

There is still this Jurassic undercurrent of nonsense bubbling away under the surface!

I was still at school the last time I read something like that.

I did see an earlier comment about the English NOT behaving in a petty way to the post Yes vote……well personally i believe the English have a massive capacity to be petty and will cut off Scotland at the knees. (seriously)

It is not about being petty it is about getting the best deal possible for the people of the rUK. In my opinion that means no currency union and if iScotland don’t take any debt then withholding a similar amount of assets. It would also mean all warships being built in the UK. From day one of independence anyone from Scotland should no longer be allowed to use a UK passport or be considered a UK citizen regardless of how long they have lived in the rUK.

Oldbloke Sillars comments about a day of reckoning seem intemperate and not something I subscribe to. Perhaps you would like to consider Ian Davidsons comments about bayoneting the wounded, or the No campaigns decision to call their strategy for the last week of the campaign “Shock and Awe” or do you think those phrases are “not intimidating in the slightest”

Corporations are people too

Indeed, separate legal persons. Who pay tax and don’t have representation. So they issue press releases and employee memos. How terrible.

gordimhor – Ian Davidson is a nutter and has been since before any independence debate, but I don’t find the comment intimidating with context added. Sillars, on the other hand, is a former leader of the SNP who is describing a set of actions an SNP government might take and are so clearly stated they don’t have the get out of being a metaphorical clumsiness.
Ian Davidson MP, who is Chairman of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, told RIA Novosti he was not advocating the literally bayonetting of pro-independence supporters following a No-vote, but added his comments were “in the context of the conflict being over and there would be the cleaning up to be done.”

This has the potential to get outstandingly petty and vitriolic whichever way the vote goes.

Can we have a referendum on independence from bigotry, bile and spite?