Osbourne says no to currency union.

Galloway seems to be warning Scotland that under independence, we’ll get the government we vote for. And what’s worse, we’ll get them all the time!

The SNP got something like 45% of the vote but 53% of the seats, so you could argue that if PR did its job properly we voted for an SNP dominated coalition rather than an SNP controlled government.

aracer – Member

I thought the whole point was that it wasn’t about the SNP and they’d not be in power for long…

I really don’t think you’re that stupid tbh.

Some great posts in amongst the bollox…..particularly liked the pics of the Scottish Defence HQ and its array of armour! 🙂

I love the apparent contradictions

YS aligning itself with the Adam Smith Institute
Jambalaya with George Galloway

There is an obvious difference between deceit and support – people are fooled by deceit and give their support initially only to be disappointed when the cold hard facts of economic reality set it. We see this time and time again in history and now in Europe and (to a lesser extent with the deceit issues) in the US.

Given that the whole yS is based in deceit and lies that have fallen over at first testing – no other politician can match the DO. Of course, he has latched onto a underlying theme that bears not relation to what he is proposing and therein lies the danger. The BT lot simply struggle to engage with this.

The losers? Everyone bar the speculators, the lawyers and the owners of property in North of England etc

Meanwhile the RoW looks on aghast.

I think what Galloway said about independence being bad for the average working person in Scotland is true, they will suffer in a race to the bottom in terms

What, like a rise in zero hours contracts, record numbers of foodbanks and falling living standards as wage increases fail to keep up with inflation?
We don’t need to wait for independence for these to happen.

I am still surprised at the anti-Blair feeling

ahhhh, suddenly all your posts make sense.

teamhurtmore – Member

I love the apparent contradictions
And let’s not forget the financial services parasites whose greed caused the biggest recession in decades lecturing the rest of us about financial and economic caution

Meanwhile the RoW looks on aghast.

Aghast that the UK has so badly managed Scotland that 50% of it’s occupants are willing to take the “risk and uncertainty” and go it alone? If we were truly better together and not treated with contempt then this situation would never even arisen. Even the last ditch promise of powers goes to show how little respect we’ve been given, and that’s regardless of which way your voting.

Meanwhile the RoW looks on aghast.

It took me a second to work out what you meant – I thought you were talking about the Republic of Wales at first.

It took me a second to work out what you meant – I thought you were talking about the Republic of Wales at first.

I thought it was Rights of Way

What appals me (as an ex business person) is the stupidity of businesses joining in the campaign on either side.

This referendum has got the whole of Scotland involved, an incredible amount of active voter participation. The hornet’s nest has been well and truly whacked.

Whatever you have said as a business unless it was neutral, about 50% of those hornets are going to be pissed off with your business.

Scots are notorious for carrying a grudge (an old habit, we still haven’t forgiven the Campbells 🙂 ).

On the Yes side there is already there is a movement to stop paying the BBC licence fee.

Scottish Newspapers have seen their readerships plummet.

I can think of some supermarkets who may shortly be wondering where half their customers have gone.

I don’t know what the No side will do if it is a Yes vote, but I’m sure they will enliven Scottish politics at the very least. 🙂

And let’s not forget the financial services parasites whose greed caused the biggest recession in decades lecturing the rest of us about financial and economic caution

And where are the highest concentration of them?

Bankers were the transmission mechanism not the cause of the recession. Buts that’s another thread.

Badly managed? Strip away the rhetoric and you have one of the most successful economic and political unions in history. Step away also from spoilt-brat syndrome and this internationally respected union is at risk on the grounds of …..errr…….platitudes, fluff and deceit . Hence the incomprehension from overseas.

Get your tax free, business parks ready for development in N of England. These opportunities only come along every now and again.

Bankers were the transmission mechanism not the cause of the recession.

A priceless gem. Apparently you can polish a turd.

And let’s not forget the financial services parasites whose greed caused the biggest recession in decades lecturing the rest of us about financial and economic caution
[/quote]Indeed, why bother having elected politicians at all if we are always supposed to jump to whatever these supposed “captains” of finance tell us?

Serious for a mo – why do No voters hate him so much?

Lets see:

– He’s in bed with Rupert Murdoch
– He was in bed with Donald Trump until it went sour for him
– He’s in bed with bigot Brian Souter (largest contributor to the SNP) – how does this fit in with the vision of a ‘fairer’ society?
– He claims to be able to produce a fairer society but then makes plans like slashing corporation tax to 3% below that of the rUK
– He makes extremely vague and often downright misleading claims/statements about the financial future of Scotland and when challenged starts going on about bullying and hinting at dark conspiracy theories.
– He threatens for Scotland not to pay their fair share of the national debt
– The ‘arc of prosperity’ (although TBF this is more amusing than a reason to dislike him)
– He uses misleading scaremongering tactics WRT the NHS – http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs
– He’s a politician

If we were truly better together and not treated with contempt then this situation would never even arisen.

Treated with contempt – like being given your own parliament?

teamhurtmore – Member

Hence the incomprehension from overseas

My brother’s in NZ, everywhere he goes he’s having to explain why Scotland’s still in the UK. The only incomprehension is why we end up asking for a referendum, for devolution, etc. “We had a referendum for home rule in 79 and didn’t get it on a technicality” “What’s wrong with you people?”

Whatever you have said as a business unless it was neutral, about 50% of those hornets are going to be pissed off with your business.

I’m not finding that – perhaps because it’s Glasgow, perhaps because of the clientele I attract, almost everyone who comes into the shop is supportive of it. The ones who aren’t we can have a joke about it.

“The monetary policy committee of the Bank of England has nine members on it. Four members are appointed by the Treasury; we’d expect to be part of the appointments process.”

He reckons Scotland will get to be part of the appointment process for the policy committee of the national bank of a foreign country? Eh?

I’m no expert but has this ever happened in the world anywhere before?

CAPS LOCK FOR EASE NOT SHOUTING

– He’s in bed with Rupert Murdoch- WHICH POLITICIAN IS NOT?
– He was in bed with Donald Trump until it went sour for him- AGRED
– He claims to be able to produce a fairer society but then makes plans like slashing corporation tax to 3% below that of the rUK- NOT INCOMPATABILE WITH A FAIRER SOCIETY
– He makes extremely vague and often downright misleading claims/statements about the financial future of Scotland and when challenged starts going on about bullying and hinting at dark conspiracy theories – COULD YOU BE MORE PRECISE
– He threatens for Scotland not to pay their fair share of the national debt- IN RESPEONSE TO NOT GETTING THE FAIR SHARE OF ASSETS – WHY BLAME TH EREATIALIATION ?
– The ‘arc of prosperity’ (although TBF this is more amusing than a reason to dislike him)- AGREED BUT THEY ALL DID THIS
– He uses misleading scaremongering tactics WRT the NHS – http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs- BS – ON ALL OF THAT THE NHS WESTMINISTER HAS PRIMACY OVER HOLYROOD IN LEGISLATIVE TERMS – WHAT DOES DEVOLVED MEAN?
– He’s a politician- YES SO WHY HATE HIM MORE?

Dont get me wrong I dont like him but i dont dislike him any more than any other politician either

Agree with NW my overseas mates are generally indifferent and not interested in the same way we would be if the german federal system broke down. It is not like we admire it or care….and some think the english are arrogant for thinking the whole world looks to us first as the father of democracy etc. they do not have not done in my lifetime [ if they ever even did]

Any thoughts on nationalising BP?

I’m no expert but has this ever happened in the world anywhere before

I doubt there is an example similar enough to this scenario to actually be meaningful.

Czechslovakia ????

took the
czech koruna
Slovak koruna

However they both agreed to split rather than one leave
Not sure there is a comparison to be made tbh

Lets see:

– He’s in bed with Rupert Murdoch
Well that’s an absolute shocker that is – politician cosies up to the media. Did he hire an ex-employee of Murdoch’s who was subsequently jailed for phone hacking or am I thinking of someone else?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14206371
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1320806/Cameron-stalls-publication-Downing-Street-guestlist-Rupert-Murdoch-visited.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/leveson-inquiry/9295121/Tony-Blair-relationship-with-Rupert-Murdoch-became-easier-and-better-after-Downing-Street.html

Yes thanks for pointing out the obvious – it’s a reason for me to dislike Blair and Cameron too. Two wrongs don’t make a right though do they.

Also, Salmond is the one trying to make out he’s a refreshing change to the self-serving political elite – whereas he appears to just be more of the same.

I guess a lot of people believed that kind of idealistic stuff when Tony Blair said it in 1997 too…

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/scottish-referendum-too-close-to-call-says-icm-poll

Guardian/ICM poll finds support for no campaign on 51% and yes on 49% with less than a week to go, but 17% of voters say they have yet to make up their mind

Two wrongs don’t make a right though do they.

of course not but i was wondering why he is hated more than others
Most of it applies to them all tbh.
It does surprise me that folk really do like it from folk I normally agree with to folk I dont normally agree with
Most no voters seem to passionately dislike him [ in england anyway]

Is this the case in Scotland as well?

Again a genuine question

Most no voters seem to passionately dislike him [ in england anyway]

Is this the case in Scotland as well?
Amongst friends and colleagues, it is the deceit, refusal to answer credible questions, playing the man rather than ball and general holier than thou attitude. I don’t think the attitude displayed during the campaign is anything I would want representing me at either a negotiating table or on the international stage.

@epic I think most business did indeed try and stay out of the debate for he obvious reason that they don’t want to alienate one part of their customer base. However the financial services companies in particular have a requirement to make a statement as a Yes vote raises some serious issues with regard to regulation and deposit insurance schemes in particular. This then flows onto the publicly listed companies like the food retailers, when they have such a material potential future change in their business organisation they have to make a statement, doing nothing on prices means profits would likely be reduced and if they know that they have to make a statement.

@JY there where certainly dissenting voices on Iraq from within Labour on Iraq but the majority of MPs of all sides voted for the action. I didn’t agree with the invasion but I can understand why it occurred and I don’t put it down to one man certainly not in the UK.

Every Lib dem voted against it – 1 abstained – iirc they were away
Obviously this was back when they had principles.

Had blair opposed the war and not been so keen it would never have happened. I see little room for debate on that point and we are way OT now.

Is this the case in Scotland as well?

Again a genuine question
Not as far as I’m aware, other than he represents the end of the union which the No voters don’t want to see ended. What there is is the recognition that he is a tremendously skilled politician who can out argue anyone else in the Scottish parliament, something which the Westminster based contingent seem to have completely underestimated. However, No can hardly blame themselves for putting up such a pathetic defence of the union as Darling and Brown, so they turn their ire on Salmond which, with his permanent aura of smugness, isn’t a difficult thing to do. But it’s not an issue away from the political stage and from the headcases shouting at each other in the street (which i haven’t seen any of tbh)

jambalaya – Member

@epic I think
Not based on your posts you don’t. Blair comment being a case a point.

I clearly have different opinions to some but lets keep the personal insults out of this or we’ll see the thread drift towards the warnings, bans and it being closed, something someone commented on recently about how we had managed to avoid.

You disagree with what I have posted on Blair but as far as I am concerned its reasoned and rational.

surely Blair being an awful person is one thing we can all agree on?

Eamon de Valera was president of Ireland until he was 91 years old.

the Irish presidency is a ceremonial position, isn’t it? doesn’t the UK already have a tradition of letting its heads of state grow old in office – it’s just God that appoints then rather than the electorate?

Grum we were’nt “given” anything. It was achieved with many long hard decades of campaigning. The first “home rule” campaign was in the 1850s, the Scottish covenant had 2,000,000 signatories in 1949. We voted for devolution in 79 and didnt get it.The vigil for a Scottish parliament on Calton Hill started then and went on till 99. There was the Campaign for a Scottish Assembly started in 1980. The Constitutional Convention in 89, The Claim of Right, etc God knows how many marches ,meetings, petitions, letter writing campaigns etc.

Today’s ICM poll:

Yes 49% (up 4%)
No 51% (down 4%)

surely Blair being an awful person is one thing we can all agree on?

You would think but apparently you can both defend/support him and oppose his war decision and claim it is reasoned/rational position.

Whatever happens half of Scotland are going to be upset.
Edit tony Blair is a weapons grade ****.

indeed the making of the peace will be difficult ;whomever wins it will likely be a very close vote either way.
the rhetoric from oth sides has probably not helped

his war decision

Key part of this for me is that it wasn’t his decision, it was collective and alongside the US and anyone who might have been leader of a UK government Tory or Labour would have taken us into Iraq IMO

as far as I am concerned its reasoned and rational.

Blair is a liar who took this country into war which ultimately cost up toa million lives and still has consequences in the middle east. If you believe this is supportable, and assuming that you actually understand this (which I doubt), then that’s between you, your conscience and the one or two other people you might find to support you.
However, I don’t, and your belief demonstrates to me a complete and utter failure to understand the events of the time and the effect they still have today. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I’m entitled to mine, and mine is that anyone believing Blair to be worthy of anything other than a war crimes trial hasn’t thought things out. Hence my comment. Not an insult, my opinion, which I’m also entitled to.