Osbourne says no to currency union.

The central arguments Ben that have dominated the debate – currency and debt – have both been presented in a deceitful manner with one purpose – to mislead voters. No surprise that the DO has gone back to base in both. Much better to hide behind his own 3Bs than treat the voters with the respect that they deserve. He must feel very proud that his legacy will be based on such foundations. Utterly fitting and predictable.

The latest trials and tribulations of the left wing government of M Hollande completely falsify the idea a yes vote will create a shift away from centre right policies.

Well that’s a bit of a leap. What’s the connection, completely?

the No Borders campaign which is backed by a tax-avoiding oil baron who bribes dictators

Who is that?

‘Dirty Money?’ The Tory Millionaire Bankrolling Better Together

Phew, I thought we were talking about Donald Trump again then…

The rest will follow. If UK politics offered a positive alternative to the current right-moving trend then Scottish Independence would be dead in the water…I hope the English Democrats can capitalize on the disillusionment in England and shake things up a bit.

POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
WTF? You’re endorsing the English Democrats as an alternative to the rightist trend in UK politics? are you nuts? They’re the lunatic fringe of UKIP and the BNP!

Yup, there’s the Britannica Party, the Scottish Jacobite Party, the No Borders campaign which is backed by a tax-avoiding oil baron who bribes dictators, loads of lovely people.

Your contempt for bribery is in tension with your enthusiasm for the Norwegian state’s energy section and its bribery of officials of the fascist Iranian regime.

I can understand why people committed to the UK are worried about the ideas of failing economies

No Yesser has proposed that Scotland adopt any significant political or economic reform that would be a departure from mainstream capitalism – and in fact the lead political figure in iScotland would be a former banker. Here comes the new boss…

Your contempt for bribery is in tension with your enthusiasm for the Norwegian state’s energy section and its bribery of officials of the fascist Iranian regime.

When did I express enthusiasm for bribing Iranian officials?

from the little I saw, Salmond is taking a Yes vote as a mandate for the BoD from the Scottish people and hence a mandate for CU

but we are constantly told the vote is not about the SNP who wrote the BoD, it supposed to be bigger than that

the reality is that iS need the £ as unravelling all the government services will have to be done quicker and at higher cost for iS if they don’t use it. The transistion costs have been grossly underestimated

but it doesn’t matter, the rUK electorate will not be interested in the iS “mandate” for CU, when they see the reality for rUK with the issues of divergent economies, divergent spending, unbalanced financial risk benefits, and the instability of iS leaving whenever they feel. No-one is going to vote for that (and the associated costs) when rUK voters give their mandate in 2015

it also doesn’t matter if the argument is more than just about money (including oil money) and where it is spent. But what is clear is that the money does matter to a good % of the voters which the Yes campaign need to convince hence the gleam in AS’s eyes everytime he gets to mention the oil money

ernie_lynch – Member
I literally LOL at the suggestion that the UK is not a democracy but in fact an oligarchy. There’s something wonderfully entertaining about people who make hysterical comments

epicyclo – Member

It’s ok, I expect that sort of response from folk possessing the delusional belief that an appointed upper house with life members is democratic.

[/quote]

So the UK is not a democracy but an oligarchy because of the House of Lords ? 😆

Does the EU know that the UK is an oligarchy ? Because the EU requires members states to have “stable institutions guaranteeing democracy” …… I suggest you give them a bell 😆

And you talk about “delusional belief” 😆

Stop it now, my sides are starting to hurt 😆

EDIT : I fully accept the claim that the House of Lords is inherently undemocratic (which would be a serious problem if it actually had any executive powers). I completely the reject the claim that it therefore defines the UK as an “oligarchy”.

Your contempt for bribery is in tension with your enthusiasm for the Norwegian state’s energy section and its bribery of officials of the fascist Iranian regime.
When did I express enthusiasm for bribing Iranian officials?

You’re absolutely right and I do apologise. I should have said “your contempt for bribery is in tension with your enthusiasm for the Norwegian state’s energy section which bribed officials of the fascist Iranian regime”.

I like the idea of an oil fund*, that doesn’t mean I think we should copy everything the Norwegians do. I tried Lutefisk once, never again.

*but see previous comments re. I’d prefer it stayed where it is, etc etc.

Well, it was nice to see Better Together finally change their mind and say that “Of course we could use the pound.” Now maybe they’ll stop telling us we’ll have to use chewing gum and kit-kat wrappers. Or the Euro.

What has Darling got against Panama, anyway? At least twice I heard him call it a horrible place. Guess he didn’t get his invitation to the Panamanian embassy christmas party last year or something.

Konabunny the way I’d interpreted them (EDP) was that they were attracting people for whom the BNP and UKIP were too extreme.

Regardless, it’s not necessarily that I’m advocating them, more like I perceived them to be putting a voice to what a lot of people in England feel but not as abhorrent as the far right parties which is what England needs.

We in Scotland have SNP, the Welsh had Plaid Cymru, in Northern Ireland there is Sinn Fein or the Democrats. I’m not saying that any minority party is necessarily better than the mainstream but look at how the SNP and Plaid Cymru have developed in recent years from their beginnings as what many perceived to be a ‘lunatic fringe’ into something that a lot of people feel they can support.

Probably not putting over very well what I am trying to say

Well, it was nice to see Better Together finally change their mind and say that “Of course we could use the pound.”

It’s surprising just how daft some people can be. If you listened carefully to what Darling said you would have noted that he pointed out that Scotland could use any currency it wanted, including, he quite rightly said, the rupee.

That has never been in any doubt at any time.

And yet the this is now being offered by the nats as some sort of great victory and major capitulation. Are people really that dumb ?

What has been in doubt is currency union. Apparently the nats believe that you can have currency union with only one party agreeing.

You are of course correct Ernie. Just like when Johann Lamont made her famous remark about Scots not being genetically programmed to make decisions. As much as I think she is as much use as a chocolate fireguard, it was clear what she was trying to say, she just got mixed up in the heat of a shouting match with Nicola Sturgeon.

However, in the interests of balance, I must correct you on what you say about the SNP saying that only one party needs to be in agreement to have a currency union. As you know, they have not said this either, just as much as Mr Darling’s comment was framed entirely differently to how it is being interpreted.

Konabunny the way I’d interpreted them (EDP) was that they were attracting people for whom the BNP and UKIP were too extreme.

In my personal experience the English Democrats hate the Scots, which in that respect makes them even more bigoted than the BNP.

Just having a thought here with Salmonds “If its your pound then its your debt” line, does that mean we’ll get to take back all of the things that its paid for like your schools, universities, Health service, council services road infrastructure (if we paid for it maybe we should put tolls on every bit of scottish road we built)

The guys a snake that deals in half truths, the way its going I’d love to see Scotlad go it alone just for the Ha we told you so……. a few years down the line

Don’t you all hate the Scots? 😉

Just like when Johann Lamont made her famous remark about Scots not being genetically programmed to make decisions.

Darling last night saying that Scotland can use any currency it wants including the rupee is “just like” when Johann Lamont made her famous remark about Scots not being genetically programmed to make decisions ?

That’s impressive. Have you got anymore stuff like that ?

Your all delusional, it just freedom for Yorkshire we need and we need it now! We’ll be having our own oil fund, it be needed as by act of Yorkist Parliament all chips must fried in beef dripping, none of your namby pamby veg oil.

ust having a thought here with Salmonds “If its your pound then its your debt” line, does that mean we’ll get to take back all of the things that its paid for like your schools, universities, Health service, council services road infrastructure (if we paid for it maybe we should put tolls on every bit of scottish road we built)

Where ‘we’ includes Scottish tax payers?

Don’t you all hate the Scots?

Petty nationalism is a minority opinion.

Hustler, the guy’s a politician – if you don’t like his dishonesty you must have been apoplectic when Alistair Darling tried to deny the NHS was being privatised in England 😉

Anyway, if it does go tits up then it’s up to us – no more blaming Westminster. I’d be devastated if it did but I am confident it won’t.

No Ernie, I was agreeing with you. Johann Lamont was trying to say just because we are Scots doesn’t make us genetically programmed to make better decisions. It came out a bit wrong but anyone watching the debate must have clearly known what she was trying to say.

It’s surprising just how daft some people can be. If you listened carefully to what Darling said you would have noted that he pointed out that Scotland could use any currency it wanted, including, he quite rightly said, the rupee.

That has never been in any doubt at any time.

The picture above is just one of many that say we can’t use the pound. Not that we can’t have a currency union, that we can’t use the pound. It has been the bedrock of Better Together’s campaign since they gave up on EU membership that Scotland will not be allowed to use the pound.

Now, I guess you could argue that they were working on the assumption that everyone knew that we could still use the pound and therefore all their comments and advertising refered to a currency union. However, I think that the intention was to scare people into thinking we would have to use the Euro or create our own currenncy and that those were our only two options.

Therefore, to finally have Better Together admit that Yes was right all along and we can contimue to use the pound is a bit of a big deal.

Just to add, Johann Lamont on the currency iScotland will use:

“No one knows but it won’t be the pound – all the parties in the rest of the UK have ruled out an independent Scotland keeping the pound. It would have to be the Euro or a seperate Scottish currency.”

och come on ernie! Even by your selective quoting standards that’s a bit naff – quoting me entirely but omitting the wink which shows my comment was made in jest

Another article that explains some of the reasons I have decided to vote yes…I am fully aware my argument is not as pedantic insistent fully rounded as others on here, I am going on the opportunity a yes would offer. The last quote in this article sums it up.
Why I’m voting YES

That has never been in any doubt at any time.

It’s never been in any doubt on the Yes side – the No side seemed to have a lot of doubt, including in leaflets dropping through letterboxes at the moment:

Must be rather vexing when the leader of your campaign rubbishes a central claim of the leaflets you’ve just printed 😀

The campaign could have be so much better if it had this tone!

https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond 😀

It’s never been in any doubt on the Yes side – the No side seemed to have a lot of doubt, including in leaflets dropping through letterboxes at the moment

Saying no one knows but it won’t be the pound is like saying no one knows but it won’t be the rupee.

Saying it won’t be the rupee isn’t the same as saying it can’t be the rupee.

I would go for the dollar personally. It doesn’t really matter what the yanks think.

Ah, so when Johann Lamont – Alastair Darling’s nominal boss – says that it won’t be the pound, she doesn’t mean it can’t be the pound, she just means it won’t be the pound because, well, she said so.

Hmm 😀

The Better Together facebook page has a lovely cover photo at the moment, managing to play the man and be incredibly petty at the same time.

Labour were going around with giant cardboard versions of that – amazingly childish.

When it comes to thoughtful considered debate, East Renfrewshire Council have got it spot on

bencooper – Member

To be fair, a prospectus promise to tell Scotland to get **** could be a sizeable vote winner

I’d hope the people of the rUK aren’t that vindictive or self-destructive.

They are, if Scotland votes “Yes” then it’s going to be a bitter divorce rather than an amicable separation.

Any MP in rUK which obstructs or batters the Scots will win votes, which as its an election year they will be lining up to do to improve their chances of keeping their jobs.

I feel sorry for any Scots MP who are stuck negoiating with rUK as there is going to be very little wriggle room and tbh they are going to get ****.

I feel sorry for any Scots MP who are stuck negoiating with rUK as there is going to be very little wriggle room, and tbh they are going to get ****.

At the end of the day if they can’t reach a sensible agreement that works for both countries then it’ll be like a divorce and end up in the hands of the lawyers and the courts. In that case the MP won’t have much of a chance to be vindictive because they won’t be involved.

In that case the MP won’t have much of a chance to be vindictive because they won’t be involved.

Really…. you believe that?

Really…. you believe that?

If it gets to the point where the negotiating committees can’t agree then yes. It’ll end up in a court and a judge (or judges? I’m not sure with international law) will decide. No MP’s involved. There are rules and laws for how things like assets etc should be split up set out in international law to be used when the countries involved can’t agree them selves. Don’t see why this would be any different.

When it comes to thoughtful considered debate, East Renfrewshire Council have got it spot on

Yup, that was funny – I think someone forgot which Twitter account they were signed in to 😉

If Scotland vote for Independence and Alex tries to keep to his timetable then the Scots are stuffed. Since the UK just has to play hardball and delay the talks. So we go to court – which one? The EUCR – not relevant and in any case Scotland cannot join until it is independent. The EU – see ECHR. The UN – see ECHR. So which court.

In any case the UK can choose to ignore the ruling.

If the SNP think that by publishing the BoD they are strengthening their case I think that they are misguided. They will get some of what they want, but not all. After all if I know what you want and are constrained by a timetable then I have a stronger case. Add to the fact that Scotland will have many, many talks running in parallel – does the Scottish Government have enough people to do them all?

However all of this relies on getting a Yes vote – which at the moment is looking unlikely