Orange vs Commencal

Currently have a ’07 Attack Trail (the older style – not the tango one).

Thinking of replacing it with either an Orange or Commencal, as the Attack Trail is not stiff enough and find the head angle too steep.

Should i opt for the Five or the Meta 5 or alternatively as I have a HT for local riding thinking about either a Alpine 160 or a 666 for trips to 7 Stanes, Fort William etc.

Am just after a frame and will be running Pikes to start with as can’t afford 160mm forks at the moment.

i would opt for the new orange 5 a real do it all bike.

as you’ve got a HT as well I’d get the A160 if I were you 🙂

i he finds the head angle too steep on the marin then you will have the same problem on the a160.

Um….I’ll probably get corrected here but if you run the 666 with a pike wont it be noticeably steeper than intended?
Also assuming you did get the 666 and buy a 160mm fork, isnt it just a meta 5 with an inch more travel and a higher bb with the steeper head angle setting, and the same geo as the mini dh in the slacker setting?

What about the meta 4x (designed around pikes), slightly heavier and more robust than a meta 5, also slacker more aggressive, much more fun. Or how about the mini dh? I’ve ridden both and although hampered slightly in the climbing department they leave an ordinary meta 5 in the weeds on the descents.

I thought the a160 was supposed to be more laid back than the 5? My Whyte (I’d had thought similar angles to the Marin) is definitely steeper than my mate’s 5

It’s adjustable so I think it can be exactly the same as the 5 or a degree (I think) slacker with a higher BB.

Haven’t measured it exactly but the Marin is somewhere around 70-69 degs.

Orange Five is quoted as 67 with 140mm fork, 66 with a 160mm fork.
Alpine 160 is 66.5 with 160mm fork.

Meta 5 = unsure
666 = unsure.

If I go for either of the 160mm options, i.e. Alpine 160 or the 666 with the pikes, then as suggested above, i assume i’ll not be much better off in terms of head angle than I am at present. Although I note that the 666 is adjustable (not sure in which sense, i.e. does it increase or descrease head angle from the standard setting?).

I would hope that whatever I went for would be a lot stiffer than my present FS.

Being 6″2′ and 16st, the stiffness is very important. So rear maxle essential.

Perhaps the best option is the Five as even with the Pikes I’ll get approx a 2 deg improvement in head angle, with the potential for another degree if/when I can afford the 160mm forks.

In terms of handling, is there much difference between the Orange & Meta?

I’ve found the Meta handles really well, climbs well enough and is a total gas downhill. The 666 is a bit slacker and burlier and should take more punishment. Last years Metas were a bit flexy at the back, but I beleive they’ve been stiffened up for 2009. The adjustable head angle on the 666 might let you get away with using the Pikes until you can trade them in for something a bit bigger.

Orange – dents, bad warranty, expensive crash replacement
Commencal – snaps, bad warranty, expensive crash replacement

In summary, buy a Specialized

Commencal – snaps, bad warranty, expensive crash replacement

Warranty replacement on my first Supreme (second hand).

New swingarm this year was £220- not bad for a frame which is £1250 new.

how did you warranty a second hand frame?

Tbh, if you dent a five enough to need a warranty you’ve probably broken everything else…

Maybe I got a really good one (as I know others have had dodgy paint) but I don’t even chip the paint when I crash…

I think an Apline 160 will be as stiff as you’re going to get with the Maxle rear end but I worry the 18″ isn’t going to be big enough for you – you could always go for a Five AM which has the Maxle rear end and 66 head angle…

I’ve a mate who may be keen to swap his Bomber 88s for a pair of Pikes. Email me if you’d be interested.

Meta 5 (08): can suffer from creaks, convoluted suspension which is a faff to keep clean and a flexy back end.

However…… is an absolute blast downhill, so good IMO that it makes up for all its failings. Orange 5 probably a more sensible choice for the muddy UK, however doesn’t have the same personality as the Meta IMO

Great warranty on Commencal via Madison – they warrantied my s/h frame.

Can’t recommend them enough after that.

If Marin did frames only. I would have one of the new Attack Trail frames without question, as I have found there lifetime warranty and customer service fantastic.

Have had one swingarm and a complete frame out of them for the Attack Trail, no questions asked, so haven’t needed to buy a new bike for 5 years.

When I first bought one 5 years ago it was great. But we are now riding much harder and more aggressively than 5 years ago and I have got heavier. I just dont get on with the latest replacement i.e. the ’07 frame, as it too flexy for my current weight! Plus it pitches foward too much for my liking.

I was wondering about the size for the Orange. Both the Five/160 seem very similar in terms of geometry and the 18″ are almost identical to the effective TT of my P7.

The 20″ Five just looks too big.

I’m 5′ 9″ and ride an 18″ Five and it’s perfect – but I do like em long in the TT with stubby stems and inline posts though…

Having seen a 20″ Five it’s also one of the only good looking 20″ bikes I’ve seen…

Go for the Orange 5.

I had a 06 Marin Wolf Ridge, that was nicked and replaced by a 2007 Wolf Ridge. After about a year i decided that it was too flexy in the swing arm, a pain to clean, too heavy, had too high a bottom bracket which made you feel very perched on the saddle. You didn’t really feel part of the bike?!

So i bought an Orange 5 frame in July after reading too many good things about them, and having Ian Luff at Drop-Off Cafe keep telling me how perfect it was for UK riding.i recall him calling it a Gazelle!!!

He was right! Easy to clean, very stiff in the swing arm, Looks great in a agricultural kind of way (Function before Form), Fairly light, pedals brilliantly, copes with anything i have thrown it down, stupidly stable on descents and pretty much the perfect UK bike, IMHO!!

Thats my thoughts anyway.

Amongst the guys I ride with there’s a Meta 55, Heckler and a Five and in terms of an all round bike that’ll take everything from the Alps to anything the UK can throw at it, all bikes excel.

I’ve got an 18″ Five and I’m 5ft 11in, I don’t think it’s quite as nimble as my mates Heckler but that’s mainly down to the length of the frame. By the same token it climbs better than the Heckler, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

At that end of the market there’s no such thing as a bad bike these days I reckon. If it were my money though, I’d think very seriously about a second hand Turner Five Spot.

Thanks for all your opinions/advice.

Yes totally agree about that perched feeling. Very unnerving.

I think am erring on the side of the Five, with rear maxle.

Only issue now is getting management approval.

Personally I dont like the Commencial, but the Orange 5 is a good call – for a single pivot, tough and simple if a little basic in function.
Marin Attack trail for 09 also looks good – frame is stiffer than 07 versions and geometry better (67degree headangle) – but main reason is I prefer the suspension function of the Marin (I have a similar but short travel version on my whyte e120)

love my 5, perfect for both UK and Alps type riding imo. get one you wont be disapointed.

Field Marshall wrote

Only issue now is getting management approval.

I had the same problem. Now I don’t believe I know your missus but if she’s anything like mine you’ve got to play the ‘choice of colours’ card. There’s 4 stock colours you can have it in, and endless other colours you can get for a fee.

At which point my missus said ‘pass me the catalogue’. Chi-ching. (Fool’s Gold in case you’re asking…).

I have pikes on my five – good combination (much better geometery than the 130 float R I previously ran)

That said never riden a Comencal so I might prefer that

My Foes is what you want mate, no really you do!

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/possibly-for-sale-foes-fxr-21-top-spec

See told you! 😀

Did someone say fools gold?? 😮

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*nasty Orange seatpost is now gone

Maybe consider a Prophet?

Gary – are you posting that to show how ugly 5s are?
TBH they are both great bikes so you can’t go wrong.

Actually you can go wrong. You could buy an Orange.

>Ducks<

Rob (cheers drive), exactly how many hours did you spend repairing and servicing yours while we were in North wales? 😀