Orange Four

You probably would notice a 7mm difference in BB height. Whether you’d prefer it though is a different matter. Each to their own, but that 323mm is static and is pretty low.

You could just run a longer fork of course, but that will slacken the angles a bit.

I bought the 5 as my anthem wasn’t up to the abuse id give it on local trails..or doing stupid jumps..I’d often check the frame for cracks after some jumps.
The 5 is more than enough bike for my local trails and doesn’t get ridden to its limits..

Did you ever find any?
To be honest and it’s meant in the spirit of the debate I doubt you rode your anthem any where close to its limits just yours.
There must be a fair few 5 owners over biked out there who bought it cause it’s awesome/British/what stw loves who are getting half the travel or setting them so soft to get full travel every ride that would be better off on a shorter travel bike. It probably doesn’t need to be as burly so long as it’s built right in the right places.

Don’t underestimate the benefits of less travel and steeper angles. Quicker steering, might help with those big fangled wheels.

Well considering my bike for local riding was a 160/140mm Spitfire (about 65 deg HA with sag) and I’ve gone to a Zero AM hardtail with 130mm forks but a 64.3 deg static head angle (about 66 deg with sag) I know I like really slack bikes, however much travel they have!

shorter travel trail bike

http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/spitfire/

sorted and cheaper

Awesome bike but it sits more between the Five and the Alpine in attitude (and geometry and travel).

After reading some earlier comments re 330mm v 323mm bb height..surely 7mm can’t be noticed in the handling?

7mm is quite a lot in BB height terms. The aforementioned Spitfire has adjustable geometry giving you +/-6mm BB height and the three positions are quite obviously different in character.

mikewsmith – Member
I bought the 5 as my anthem wasn’t up to the abuse id give it on local trails..or doing stupid jumps..I’d often check the frame for cracks after some jumps.
The 5 is more than enough bike for my local trails and doesn’t get ridden to its limits..

Did you ever find any?

The only crack I ever found on my anthem was the crack up my ass 😀

There’s a fair few anthems that cracked where the top tube meets the seat post tube..

My 5 was more bike than I needed, Anthem SX suits me well, I guess the 4 would suit me too, but as I said in earlier post, its half as much money again compared to an Anthem, for similar spec….

I like it. Would complement my Alpine 160 better than a Five as less overlap. Maybe with a Works headset to slacken out the head angle a degree or 2.

Zero Cool… my thoughts exactly. The 2016 Five shifted almost a bit too close to the Alpine. I have a 26 inch 2014 Alpine and a 2nd hand 2013 Five. A quick check of the old v new geo charts and my old Five is uncannily similar to the new Four (with a touch extra rear bounce). If you can afford two bikes they’ll compliment each other brilliantly. If you can only have one to do it all get the Five but wait for Boost hubs to be added since it’ll add some rear tyre clearance.

Choice is good and they all have their place.

Yeah and I can see it being bought by a few people (probably southerners) who’ve convinced themselves they might as well have a 160mm enduro bike – but then realised it’s not exactly sprightly.

Looks like a good choice for my old local trails in Herts or the Surrey Hills.

So many people obssesed by weight.

The truth is, many people buy “bigger” bikes because they are strong enough, and have fun geometry, not because they really want/need the extra travel (especially rear travel).

Shorter travel bikes are often over looked BECAUSE they are light, and have head down XC numbers.

So, shorter travel bikes, built to take abuse and last, and with proper geometry, have their place, for sure.

Personally… I still love stiff, short rear travel, long forked bikes. And there aren’t many. Because of the weightweenies.

Personally… I still love stiff, short rear travel, long forked bikes. And there aren’t many. Because of the weightweenies.

No beacsue it’s a niche, if there was genuine large demand for something it would be there but…. when you can get more travel, good angles and decent shocks that make a long travel bike feel short travel people put their cash there.

still can’t see where the extra £1k is…

4 pro with dropper

anthem sx[/url]

where the extra £1k is…

Handmade in Halifax
Smaller Volumes on OEM – vs one of the biggest bike brands on the planet
Niche Tax
Less Pivots = Better so you will save that £1k in bearings in the first 6 months
You get a choice of colours

The thousand pound difference comes in the difference between a massive multinational company that can mass build frames and buy in parts for peanuts and a small UK owned company that hand build frames (I know machines bend the metal) and probably have to pay more for the bits that hang off them.

Whether you want to pay a thousand pounds more is up to you, but we all know Orange full bikes are not worth the money. Buy a frame only and build yourself, still cost more than the Giant but at least you’ve got what you want.

iainc – why would you expect Orange to suddenly start being competitive on price with Giant with this bike?

you must be aware they’ve charged hefty prices for all their full builds for years?

chapaking – I don’t, I bought a new 5 in 2008 🙂 which I sold in 2012.

Beginning of last year I was hankering after a short travel FS and would have been interested in the 4, as it looks ideal for my requirements. I looked at 5010’s and some others and bought an Anthem at half the price 🙂

I guess it’s just a bit like the Emperor’s new clothes…

EDIT – I have always liked Orange, that’s why I bought one before

If this is a single pivot ST4 replacement, bring it on.

Looks like the SC Superlignt I’ve owned for 5 years

^^^^ 🙂

There’s a fair few anthems that cracked where the top tube meets the seat post tube..

Caused by heffers not running enough seatpost, don’t think that counts as gnar related crackage.

I loved my Anthem, it was when it kinda felt like it was dying every time I landed a drop that made me think it maybe wasn’t suited for my needs (that and the XC angles not being ideally suited to steep).

Seems odd that they taken the Fives geometry, which is widely accepted as it’s best feature, and messed about with key elements – especially jacking up the BB on a bike that’ll run less sag.

It has a lower BB than the Five, even considering the extra sag on the latter.

Seems a simlar idea to the orange blood they did a few years ago, 66HA, 160mm up front with 127mm rear, great bike!

chiefgrooveguru – Member

It has a lower BB than the Five, even considering the extra sag on the latter.

Win in that case, must’ve mis-read the comments above

goby – Seems a simlar idea to the orange blood they did a few years ago, 66HA, 160mm up front with 127mm rear, great bike!

Except this is steeper and shorter

I cant see why Orange don’t produce a few “out there” bikes, their low volume, locally built model suits this perfectly.

They could knock out a few 2016 revision bloods and test the water but instead they just produce tweaked Fives and wonder why they dont sell.

oh a 2016, blood would be even more fun!! Great idea! 🙂

goby – oh a 2016, blood would be even more fun!! Great idea!

As I said earlier in the thread, if this had the angles of the Alpine it’d be far more interesting. Not better or worse just more interesting.

Given how quick they have launched and then dropped the Blood, St4 1 & 2, Gyro and Five 29 as well as stopping production of the DH models for a year or so, I cant see a short production run of something a little quirky shouldn’t be too hard for them.

I wonder what the added cost of a short production/more bespoke model would be given they’re not cheap to start with? Might not be that much but I don’t know what extra complexity it would introduce to the production line/processes.

Ask Brant 😉

I will happily eat my hat if Orange price their frames on what they cost + x% profit and not on what the market will accept.

As with the frames listed earlier, they are doing short production runs, they just maybe weren’t expecting them to be.

thepodge – Member
I will happily eat my hat if Orange price their frames on what they cost + x% profit and not on what the market will accept.

Do you know what that figure is?

I will happily eat my hat if Orange price their frames on what they cost + x% profit and not on what the market will accept.

See any other manufacturer…

No company in their right mind unless they are some kind of sports direct stack them high / sell them cheap set-up should be working to cost + x% = selling price.

If cost + is too high, they’ll never sell
If cost + is too low, you’re missing out on revenue

Given that you seem to be the only person upset because it doesn’t have a ‘revolutionary’ geometry I’d suggest they don’t produce what you want as you’d be the only person to buy it. What is a ‘revolutionary’ geometry anyway? There is a point where longer, lower and slacker becomes no fun. Maybe that point has been reached?

^

geometron

😉

I’m not upset, just disappointed, the press release suggested to me something more interesting and I’m not the only one, there are a couple of others on this thread that seem to think this could have been a better bike.

Geometron, Airdrop, Starling, Pole and Zumbi are just a few off the top of my head, all producing genuine interesting designs. I hoped Orange were about to add themselves to this list.

I just think it sits really neatly in their range of 27.5 full-sus bikes – Four, Five, Alpine, gaining 20mm travel and losing 1 deg off the head angle and gaining a bit of BB height and chainstay length as you go burlier. If you want it to be slacker just change the headset (as I would but that’s my personal preference).

Looks like a 5 with bits hollowed out to save weight (and add more flexibility?)…

what the market will accept.

Do you know what that figure is?

Orange probably do.

Not all companies are aiming to grow as much as possible. A lot of small companies are set up because someone likes designing bikes, and wants to do it for a living. Supply is limited, they can only make so many frames, so if your entire output is being sold why not increase the price? Surely you’d be mad not to?

I think the geometry looks pretty sorted personally.

I’d need to size up as I have short legs, but most people would probably fit well on their “normal” size.

Interested to see the new Segment geo, but I expect you’ll be bitterly disappointed again podge.

😉

chakaping – Interested to see the new Segment geo, but I expect you’ll be bitterly disappointed again podge.

The info given to the press seems to only list its now boost and b+ compatible. I’m not holding my breath for anything more.

looks longer too