UPDATED | Orange Bikes Calls In Administrators

loads of comments on here, and the other Orange thread, saying people don’t want the UK made thing

I’m not sure that’s true. It feels like there are more small/medium sized UK based bike brands than there were at the height of Oranges popularity? People are still buying UK products (even if not everything is made here) but more choice means that brands are getting a smaller slice of the total (now smaller thanks to you know what) market?

…if I’m spending a stack of money of a push bike I want to feel some connection with it. Always have with Orange and Hope stuff (Pace too, to a point). I thought about replacing my full suss with one of the Nukeproof/Vitus bargains but they just leave me cold…

Which is kind of where I’m at – irrespective of where it was made I kind of buy into more than just a bike. I loved my Yeti, I  love my Ti Sonder – I bought into their principles and/or heritage etc as well as excellence of design and manufacture  I have a Nukeproof gravel bike which is perfectly competent in every way – but its just a lump of metal. I love where it takes me, but I don’t love it.  That’s okay though because as a bike it cost less than the price of its groupset and wheels. For no good reason, sooner or later I’ll buy a Ti Camino. Daft daft daft!

From the other thread:

had a 97 P7 in nickel too

Me too!
It was actually my first proper mountain bike and I’m still riding it as my commuter/gravel bike.  Kind of.
It’s a proper Trigger’s Broom job as I’ve replaced every single part on it (including the frame after I flared the headtube although the replacement frame is not a nickel one unfortunately) with the only original part left being the forks so at least there’s still some of the original nickel with black stickers (as well as some ’97 MBUK stickers I thought were the height of cool at the time).
So yeah, Orange is definitely an important part of my own mountain biking history so really sad to hear this.

had a 97 P7 in nickel too

The one that got away for me, wanted one so badly for a good while but unsure why I didn’t. Until I got a Soul which the I can’t see a P7 bettering. It is in nickel (mercury) finish with orange decals, though, so pretty good “compromise”.

Don’t think I’m a

little Englander

but the MIB🇬🇧 aspect has always had some appeal. Was considering a 5 once, but that was the year Cannondales were crazily discounted so ended up witha Trigger 29 instead! (Which I still have)

The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP. If the (R)X9 had a made-in-UK steel frame (or even better, carbon, which seems to be what everyone wants these days) I’d certainly have bought one. As it is they offer absolutely nothing to stand out.

also agree with most others that the mind-boggling range of frames/wheel-sizes makes no sense!

Agreed with above ….seen this a lot recently. Admin close thread on anything on there main page that gets posted I  the forum .

Not great

As mentioned by mark. Any story on the front page automatically gets a forum post, and there’s no point having duplicates, so the thread linked to the article stays.

Why’s that a problem? Nothing gets deleted?

also agree with most others that the mind-boggling range of frames/wheel-sizes makes no sense!

That’s a classic case of trying to cater for everyone but ending up with such a large and confusing range that you cater for no-one.

It’s also an effective doubling of stock of things like forks, rims and tyres which is a huge extra cost.

Pick a wheel size – the industry seems to have mostly decided on 29″ with a few mullet exceptions – and then stick with it.

The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP. If the (R)X9 had a made-in-UK steel frame (or even better, carbon, which seems to be what everyone wants these days) I’d certainly have bought one. As it is they offer absolutely nothing to stand out.

The majority or Orange frames have always been made in Asia though. Ironically Orange was born when another UK MTB brand went pop with a container full of frames on a ship in the middle of the ocean. Tushingham purchased and rebranded them and shortly after rebranded again under the Orange brand. Back then (I think) only the Formula was UK made and they were rare. The early alu (O and E) frames were Asia made.

It’s only really since the predecessor to the Five that they had a ‘Made in the UK’ tag to promote.

It’s only really since the Five they had a ‘Made in the UK’ tag to promote.

What?

Pish, back when I was getting into mtb properly you had the Sub 5, Sub 3, Partriot and MsIsle at the very least, that was around 98. There was still the Mr O before then, the Five came much later.

Basically any kite frame was made in house and the straight tubes (Gringo, Air-O etc) were offshored.

Thinking about it, one of Oranges strengths became one of their weaknesses. They were always innovative (well into the 2000s FYI) and had new frames coming out all the time (Body Czech, Hitman etc.) so never got stale. At the same time they would retire older or lower selling designs so you never had too many to choose from. They were a staple on the DH scene as well, Patriots and 22X’s were well used and constantly being tweaked. They were so popular I remember Silver Fox shitheaps being stickered up to look like Global Racing 222’s.

Bit last I looked they had, as said, a bewildering range and it became a case of paralysis by analysis. If they consolidated that and at least gave things the same name across wheel sizes or made a flip chip to easily convert it would make things easier. People like choice but not when it’s inflexible. I have an old P7 with the all in one sliding derailleur dropout that gives you all the options without having to compromise.

What?

Pish, back when I was getting into mtb properly you had the Sub 5, Sub 3, Partriot and MsIsle at the very least, that was around 98. There was still the Mr O before then, the Five came much later.

Basically any kite frame was made in house and the straight tubes (Gringo, Air-O etc) were offshored.

So the predecessor to the Five then? I edited the initial post as was using  the Five for a catch all term for the folded alu bikes. Point being that the companies formative years weren’t built on UK manufacturing and they still did very well. I completely agree with you on innovation.

IMO it was the Patriot that made them, not the 5. The 5 was an evolution of the Patriot.

For those of you saying they weren’t great value compared to the direct selling box shifters…. Yeah that’s the shop margin. If you buy on price like that you have thus killed the bike shops.

For those of you saying it’s three times the price of a company selling bikes at a loss as part of a corporate strategy to kill off everyone else in the industry…. Yeah you’re right there. Shame they went bankrupt after killing most of the industry already.

for those who said brexit was a great idea…. Yeah the reality is it annihilated the export market for most companies based here.

I’ve still got my missile. First bankruptcy company I’ve felt any real sadness for. Is there going to be any U.K. manufacturers left by the end of the year.

neil SuperstarComponents

I ended up with a Merida last time I brought an MTB as I couldn’t justify the extra £600 for a far-east built frame from Orange with a lower spec. They were very poor VFM against the competition in early 2021.

My past had a C16R (my first MTB) and a Sub5 (the second).

I edited the initial post as was using the Five for a catch all term for the folded alu bikes.

So basically that’s like saying Henry Ford made the very first production line for a Mustang.

The Five came out probably 10 years after the first homegrown, possibly more.

IA
Full Member
IMO it was the Patriot that made them, not the 5. The 5 was an evolution of the Patrio

Agreed. Animal then Global racing riding the Patriot (LT in particular) really made them popular. Having young Minnaar was a massive help. Nobody really bought the “Patriot is a DH bike” line though and they sorted that with the lightest DH bike on the scene with the 222

Perfectly possible they just use insolvency as a method to clear their debts and start again buying the salable assets from the liquidator. Exactly what my company did three years ago, we owed $20m, the next week we owed $0 and carried on trading under the same company name, selling the same stock to the same customers. Only thing that actually changed was the company number with Companies house. Obvs a lot of complex legal stuff to do that, but very standard process.

Our restructuring was quite clever, the previous main secured creditor restarted us, so when New Co bought stock from the liquidator, they paid that money to the secured creditor (who also owned NewCo),  who just gave it straight back to his new company. So we basically bought all the stock for $0…

Trouble is if you do that you burn the bridges with your old suppliers and likely need to find new ones. Doable if you are a massively important client to your suppliers. Not that feasible if you are small player and one of many customers of your suppliers.

Another Orange owner and I’d be very sad if this was the end of the road for them, or if they get up being bought up by that sports direct bloke.

I still have an original Patriot Lt serving as a spider web/ dust collector in the garage, no cracks and its on it’s original pivot bearings (albeit a little baggy) and that was after a lot of abuse over many trips to the Alps, I can’t think of many bikes you’d get that with. Looks wise, obviously they have their haters but I always quite like the industrial simplicity. Rode like a tank, one of the original ploughing bikes and definitely ahead of the curve geo wise. Have an aging Alpine 160 now and it still brings a smile to my face, definitely poppy and fun and sub 30lb with the build I have, not easy without spending £££ these days.

Agree that they got too confusing with the model names and too many models as well, was much easier back in their heyday. They seemed to be bringing out fresh models and names every year almost.

Hope that something can be sorted out for the future.

Trouble is if you do that you burn the bridges with your old suppliers and likely need to find new ones.

Not necessarily, eg we continued using the same suppliers.
They had lost the money they were owed, it was never going to get repaid. But, they had the chance to make some of it back from new business. Our new payment terms were much worse (100% upfront), but we carried on working together. And we were a complete minnow, our largest supplier was a billion dollar contract manuf and we did a few $m a year with them.

Some of the comments on this thread are pretty poor.While its a sad day, If I’d run a mountain bike manufacturing company from the UK that had sales all over the world for the last 35 years won world cups and was a must have bike for any number of young mountain bikers (like myself) back in the day; I’d be pretty proud of myself regardless of how it ended. (global supply issues that they had little to no control over) Any brand/company that survives in the jungle that is discretionary consumer spending for that long deserves a well done from everyone whether you like the brand or no.

Some of the comments on this thread are pretty poor.

Or people just being honest?

Yes it’s sad they’ve gone bust and people may loose their jobs, but I also always thought their bikes looked goping and were hideously overpriced, so never understood the appeal personally. You don’t have to *love* every company which goes bust.

I think the major problem for Orange is the die hard fans of years gone by have aged and are all on e-bikes now – they’ve lost a huge customer base just from people shifting to e-bikes

I know plenty of 50-60 year olds who wouldn’t ride anything other than a Orange for ease of maintenance etc – every single one of them is on some form of ebike now – the late/old aged man with a bit of spare cash were what the majority Orange sold to have now all carted off to e-bikes and not replenished the customer base as youngsters don’t want them anymore

50-60 year old here on a Stage Evo. Gets more use than the e-bike. Great fun. Sad times for all. Can I ask what happens to the warranty I had?

every single one of them is on some form of ebike now

60+ year old here, who uses an Orange Five, as well as a Tallboy and a fat bike. Not considering an e-bike for a while yet.

But to be fair, your underlying point is probably right.

IMO it was the Patriot that made them, not the 5. The 5 was an evolution of the Patriot

The 5 was an evolution of the sub-5, which was an evolution of the mrXC. Both the mrXC and the patriot (which was sold alongside the 5 line for many years, as a longer travel/burlier option) were launched at the 1999 bike show, and were evolutions in a way of the Mr white.

This is really sad. I got into MTB when Peaty was on his 222, Minnar, Giove and Hannah were on Global racing on 222s, and my mates were riding trials on Zeros. I wanted a Ms’Isle so bad.

I associate them with the UK privateer racing scene and loads of guys my age got a leg up on their bikes (thinking Cathro, Barnes, MTBCut?, Mojo teams?). Still, to me, MTB is Orange Bikes.

Remember when they used to be absolutely ubiquitous at trail centres? I think sometime in the 10s they started to fade. Carbon became the thing, and hence alu was the budget choice. Unfortunately, UK manufacturing isn’t cheap and cheerful, and putting seemingly expensive alu UK bikes against cheapo far east frames, or even fancy carbon frames, became a hard sell. I get it, their market pretty much dried up.

I had an Alpine for a couple of years and really rated it…although it did, admittedly, crack….in the exact same place as my mates Five…but still, it was fun. That said, I’ve not bought once since, favouring Cotic instead. It’s interesting that Cotic seem to be going from strength to strength, while moving to UK/European manufacturing. I suspect they’re quite lean, with just a few core bikes, compared to the baffling range that Orange had developed.

It’s a real shame to see businesses go under, particularly ones who are unabashedly doing their own thing. Sadly, their existence, to me at least, had become more nostalgia and symbolism, rather than actual a viable product. 

Just reading back through the thread and this smacks of bad management…

To be clear. we’ve known about this for several days now and had this story drafted.

…to let the cycle press know before their staff is bad form. The decision would have taken weeks or months to come to. And some forward planning to let staff know before anyone else should have been implemented. There’s never a good time to let people know they are losing their job so doing it asap is the best policy. Certainly better than finding out on a bike forum.

The 5 was an evolution of the sub-5, which was an evolution of the mrXC. Both the mrXC and the patriot (which was sold alongside the 5 line for many years, as a longer travel/burlier option) were launched at the 1999 bike show, and were evolutions in a way of the Mr white.

TBH both are probably right. The Patriot (not the LT) seemed to merge with the Sub-5 leaving the Patriot as the bigger bike.

The expansion into far-eastern alu frames is something I never understood as to me it moved away from what I saw as their USP.

As mentioned, all the early bikes were Far East built (except for the mega limited Formula) including the Clockwork, Prestige, P7, elite, O and Vitamin T. They bought in small batches which meant they could react to market changes and tweak the designs throughout the year.

Tushingham purchased and rebranded them and shortly after rebranded again under the Orange brand.

Not quite. Roger Tushingham branched out from windsurfing and set up Tushingham with the help of Lester Noble (from memory he was semi pro level windsurfer?). After a couple of years he decided to leave the market so Lester used the remaining stock to start Orange with Steve Wade. They were separate companies with different owners. First proper Orange’s were basically re-branded Muddy Fox, but only a handful were made before switching to their own design.

The 5 was an evolution of the sub-5, which was an evolution of the mrXC. Both the mrXC and the patriot (which was sold alongside the 5 line for many years, as a longer travel/burlier option) were launched at the 1999 bike show, and were evolutions in a way of the Mr white.

First uk built range were the monocoque UFO, Mr White and Ms Isle in 1999. In 2000 the UFO was re-branded the Mr O and the Patriot appeared along with the Sub 5 and Mr XC.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/Manufacturer+Archive/Orange+Archive/Orange+Catalogues/

It’s interesting that Cotic seem to be going from strength to strength, while moving to UK/European manufacturing.

Wouldn’t be so sure about that going by what they said on the Solaris thread. Seems they are find things equally tough so hopefully they make it through. They moved some production to protect themselves.

The only difference between the Patriot and Patriot lt was the shock. 190×50 vs 190×57. They were the same otherwise afaik.
But yes, the sub-3 and 5 were very similar designs to the Patriot and definitely its predecessors, or released very close.

Thinking about it, one of Oranges strengths became one of their weaknesses. They were always innovative (well into the 2000s FYI) and had new frames coming out all the time (Body Czech, Hitman etc.) so never got stale. At the same time they would retire older or lower selling designs so you never had too many to choose from.

True is that, the original owners were happy to retire even their biggest names if the market dried up. Steel Clockwork’s vanished in 2000 (2007 limited edition excepted) before resurfacing as a aluminium 29er 13/14 years later. Same with the P7, stopped making them around 2011 which meant they had no steel in their lineup for the first time. Reappeared in 2016 when longer, lower and slacker steel hard tails were becoming popular. By the time Steve and Lester sold the line up was pretty slim.

I’ve loved riding my Four. It’s almost 7 years old and shows no signs of giving up. I regularly check it for cracks in the places they supposedly often fail and nothing thus far. I can’t think of another short travel bike I would rather have. It’s a way more capable bike than the travel numbers might suggest.

plenty of 50-60 year olds who wouldn’t ride anything other than a Orange for ease of maintenance etc – every single one of them is on some form of ebike now – the late/old aged man with a bit of spare cash were what the majority Orange sold to have now all carted off to e-bikes and not replenished the customer base as youngsters don’t want them anymore

But as mentioned above, in the next few years I’ll be looking at Ebikes and I hadn’t even considered an Orange, so there is probably some truth in that.

This is pretty sad , but maybe they can come out the other side.

my first bike was a C16R, my current FS is a Stage Evo.

i bought the Stage Evo because it looks great, rides great, is light and supports British manufacturing. Not in a ‘Little Englander’ way – I’m  a Remainer through and through but will  try and buy UK made products to support a diverse economy. 

2000 the UFO was re-branded the Mr O

The UFO was a urt bike. It fully died in 1999. The Mr o was new for 2000, it was similar to the Mr white but had a different front end

Exactly what my company did three years ago, we owed $20m, the next week we owed $0 and carried on trading under the same company name, selling the same stock to the same customers

In the good old days before public limited companies, the owner would be sent to a debtor’s prison until they’d repaid what they owed. While it may be legal, it’s no morally different to being a thief or shoplifter.

Cotic are a really different business model. Direct sales and no actual production facilities of their own being beyond assembly.

I’ve only owned one Orange but it was a fun machine, if a bit over built for what I actually needed (my fault not the bikes). Always fancied a Five but funds never permitted.

The UFO was a urt bike. It fully died in 1999. The Mr o was new for 2000, it was similar to the Mr white but had a different front end

Yep, you are right.

Anyway, just read on another forum that there’s a plan and Orange should be okay. Here’s hoping.