Olympics and equality

Why, if the horse riding can have mixed male/ female events, can’t the archery or table tennis?

Or shooting

shouldn’t you be tea-person? 😉

Did Maid Marion push Robin aside and drill the Sheriff of Nottingham between the eyes from 50 paces? Duh!

It’s a fair point, and any well versed feminist will tell you that Sport and higher level sport especially is one of the key bastions of the Patriarchy. It’s probably primarily a historical thing, same as darts, snooker and a whole load of other areas where mixed teams/opponents could play.

There’s probably an argument for mixing up the paralympic and olympic sports too. Can’t see a problem with it meself. Actually didn’t that Pistorious chappy (carbon legs) want to run in the olympics rather than the paralympics?

I can see why archery and table tennis would be segregated; both could use physical strength as a handicap.

Shooting though, I can see little reason to separate out.

Well we have female swimmers who can swim faster than men so equality is coming faster than we realise!

There’s probably an argument for mixing up the paralympic and olympic sports too. Can’t see a problem with it meself

I would love to see the para events run along side the non-para ones, but I think programming would be a bit of a nightmare as you’d have one four-week long event.. would probably be a bit much.

Re archery – anyone know if women shoot different (lighter) bows or shorter distances?

Can I put my name down for mixed wrestling please 😉

There’s probably an argument for mixing up the paralympic and olympic sports too. Can’t see a problem with it meself.

It’s very difficult to measure to the satisfaction of all as to whether artificial prosthetics could actually provide an advantage over natural limbs. If you’re a sprinter and some guy with springs for legs turns up and starts beating everyone, you might have something to say about it.

Reductio ad absurdum, countries suddenly start fielding lots of athletes who have all had mysterious ‘accidents’ in the height of their career, as it’s the only way they stand a chance of winning.

There’s probably an argument for mixing up the paralympic and olympic sports too.

Could mix up paralympics and womens events, anyway.

Why is everyone looking at me funny … ? 🙁

Bows are rated by the force required for a full draw. Women will in the main use a bow with a lower draw force. The lower the draw force the slower the arrow leaves the bow… so, although there’s nothing to stop a strong women using the same strength bow as a man, generally there will be a difference in the bows.

Well we have female swimmers who can swim faster than men so equality is coming faster than we realise!

No, it’s called doping.

Actually didn’t that Pistorious chappy (carbon legs) want to run in the olympics rather than the paralympics?

Want to?

He is!

I wouldn’t have disabled athletes race able bodied ones. Their system of categorising disabilities is complicated enough, without having to cater for able bodied people too.

Actually didn’t that Pistorious chappy (carbon legs) want to run in the olympics rather than the paralympics?

I think he’s running in both? He’s definitely running in the regular Olympics – there was an objection that his prosthesis gave him an unfair advantage, but it was overturned when evidence was presented that he was definitely at a disadvantage.

Well we have female swimmers who can swim faster than men so equality is coming faster than we realise!

No we don’t.

we have female swimmers who can swim faster than men so equality is coming faster than we realise!

That’s not equality then, if the women are better.

Re archery – anyone know if women shoot different (lighter) bows or shorter distances?

I tried yesterday to find out what a typical draw weights were for the Olympics, without success. I imagine it’s personal preference, in which case I’d expect the men to shoot heavier bows because they can.

Shooting distance is 70m (which let me tell you is a bloody long way). I’ve not yet seen anything to suggest the distances are shorter for women in the Olympics.

I’m trying to remember if women typically shoot different distances from men in field archery – there’s different peg colours for different classes and shots – but offhand I don’t think they do.

Molgrips – agreed not competing together, but what about having the events run on the same days.

Mrs Toast – unfortunately the decision to let him run was not based on the evidence and science. If it was he would not be allowed to compete in the able bodied Olympics.

do they ride lady horses and man horses?
I would, instinctively, prefer to compete against men at sport, rather than women. I expect my chivalry would get in the way. 8)

Ah, okay so I’mslightly out of touch with the story then! Anyway, I can see the arguments about physical size and shape being advantageous or not so gender differences and disabilities should be sepaerate for some. But surely for things like shooting, then they could all be lumped together? It’s all about the skill of the competitor and very little about the physical strength isn’t it?

Bows are rated by the force required for a full draw.

Bows are rated by the force required for a fixed length draw (28″)*. Longer or shorter draw lengths (ie, longer or shorter arms) will result in more or less ‘weight’ in the draw.

* – for adult recurves anyway. There may be exceptions to this, but I’ve not come across any.

I would, instinctively, prefer to compete against men at sport, rather than women. I expect chivalry would get in the way.

After you Madam, no, no, no I insist! etc… 🙂

Mark – Resident Grumpy
Bows are rated by the force required for a full draw. Women will in the main use a bow with a lower draw force. The lower the draw force the slower the arrow leaves the bow… so, although there’s nothing to stop a strong women using the same strength bow as a man, generally there will be a difference in the bows.

Having said that, the top Korean female archers are pulling something in the region of 40lb. My own recurve is around 41lb @ 28″ and will shoot 70m (Olympic distance) easily, so physical strength isn’t that much of a divider at the top level of archery.

Scores at the 70m distance are relatively comparable between men and women at world class level.

slainte 🙂 rob

no please, I won’t hear a word of it, you go first, it’s only fair.

Will somebody please think of the ladyboys?!!

Having said that, the top Korean female archers are pulling something in the region of 40lb. My own recurve is around 41lb @ 28″ and will shoot 70m (Olympic distance) easily, so physical strength isn’t that much of a divider at the top level of archery.

Surely the only relevant comparison is what are the top level male archers in the Olympics pulling?
Comparing a top level female athlete to a jobbing amateur male one doesn’t really tell us very much about top level competition. Unless you are in fact in the Olympics, in which case I apologise for doubting you.

Not about me. If 40lb will get you to 70m easily, there’s little point in pulling more (pulling the lightest bow you can for a given distance increases control and accuracy to an extent). For comparison, the Korean coaches recommend male archers draw around 45lb.

Higher draw weight gives increased arrow speed and a slight advantage in terms of overcoming issues with wind and sight setup.

Outside the olympics, men shoot a FITA round with a longest distance of 90m whereas the women ‘only’ shoot out to 70m – the higher draw weights will obviously help with the extra distance, but the Korean men are still pretty good out at 90m with their 45lb setups!

slainte 🙂 rob

Fair enough, thanks for the info Rob.
Presumably it is a linear progression from 40lb to 45lb draw weight?

Depends on the limbs of the bow. Draw force curves vary from maker to maker and model to model. 40lb is 40lb and 45lb is 45lb, but the length of draw required to reach that weight and the arrow speed that draw weight will generate varies from setup to setup (as mentioned above though, all bows are ‘weighed’ at a 28″ draw length for the sake of easier comparison).

One thing to note though is that current limbs (thanks to materials advances and other design changes) are in general WAY faster than those of even 10 years ago. Then, top male archers would be drawing 50lb or more to get the same performance as today’s 40lb limbs.

slainte 🙂 rob

Neroli Fairhall competed (and won medals) in both ordinary and paralympics in archery. From a wheelchair. Awesome !

about the heavier bows, won’t the arrows fly faster/straighter less of a drop off and less susceptible to variation?

Mrs Toast – unfortunately the decision to let him run was not based on the evidence and science

I thought they found that although he could move his legs faster that he couldn’t exert as much force so didn’t have quite so much momentum? I could be wrong, it all gets a bit plane on a conveyor belt for me when it comes to science… 😛

Reductio ad absurdum

If I ran either China/North Korea I’d take my good, but not quite the best athletes and make them disableds, so that I piss all over everyone at the paralymics too/win the paralympics.