Not putting the heating on – how’s it going…?

Only if you get it up to passivhaus standards or close surely?  Pretty much impossible in a building like mine.  despite doing as much as I can its still not short on ventilation  partly because planning made me put a load of useless vents in the roof destroying its windproofness.  I must get round to blocking some of them up.

Where do you put insulation in a single brick thickness, 1890’s terraced house?

Either inside or outside.  Both are possible.

Does anyone know of a good resource for  q’s regarding boiler life span/replacement and TRV’s life span?  Looked at the Energy Trust website but no help.

Thanks.

Where do you put insulation in a single brick thickness, 1890’s terraced house?

External insulation or internal insulation.

Neither are cheap or simple to do – but are very effective.

External wall insulation will, obviously, change the external appearance so might be worth checking with council.
It should be done after any other external works to minimise the possibility of knocking chunks out of it which will be disproportionately expensive to repair.
Costs are usually based on the area to be done so, end terrace will have 3 walls but mid-terrace only 2.
Geographical location will be a cost factor – SE is always most expensive.
If it was me, I would get some indicative costs and then attempt to calculate likely reduction in heating costs to estimate payback period.
If you’re likely to move before end of payback period, is it worth doing?

If you’re likely to move before end of payback period, is it worth doing?

It also depends on any increase in property value over the timescale compared to a similar less efficient house. I would be asking for money off an unimproved house in the current energy costs situation.

If you’re likely to move before end of payback period, is it worth doing?

Why ? You list it as a selling point and a value add.

Sandwich’s view is more likely.
A prospective house buyer is, IMO, likely to expect that energy saving improvements have been done; if they haven’t then lowball offers will result.

A prospective house buyer is, IMO, likely to expect that energy saving improvements have been done; if they haven’t then lowball offers will result.

Most don’t care.

But a house with a better epc vs a low epc will be valued differently to each other at valuation stage – if you reach the right epc you can have access to lower mortgage rates also.

Much the same as houses with non rent a roof solar panels are getting higher valuations than those without….

Energy and epc is having a bigger and bigger influence on buying habits than it did previously in younger generations. Boomer generation still generally care more about what colour the kitchen and bathroom.

Here’s hoping we get to the stage that you must have a minimum epc to proceed and the buildings of no historical interest nor fabric that can be improved are removed from the housing stock

Boomer generation still generally care more about what colour the kitchen and bathroom.

Not this one, today I have mostly been using 2″ foil covered Kingspan panels to insulate the loft header tanks. That and the hatch are the final parts of the warmth retention in the house project for the last year. We’ve some curtains to fit to the newly installed windows and that’s it for the ‘cheaper’ stuff.

Temp thermostat on the boiler told me the house was at 20F

Decided to see what 20F was in Celsius.

-7c 😮

Best put on the heating, dont want hypothermia 😆

My thermostat is reading 19c, and my small digital thermometer in the living room is reading 20c.

It’s not time to put the heating on.

The heating is set to come on at 12c currently, incase of an emergency temperature drop!

Humidity seems to bounce between 64% and 72% today, which is too high, but it has been rainey and damp outside a lot recently, so there’s not much I can do about that.

A prospective house buyer is, IMO, likely to expect that energy saving improvements have been done; if they haven’t then lowball offers will result.

Depends on the asking price, and if it’s reasonable…2 identical houses in all available metrics other than…

One has a full re-furb, especially kitchen and bathroom

One has a 10yo but still very decent kitchen and bathroom

I’d expect that would already be reflected in the asking price. But you have to know the local market and see what’s selling for what.. some people really do think they can sell a house with a 70’s avacado green bathroom suite for the same price as one that has been modernised.

cinnamon_girlFull MemberDoes anyone know of a good resource for  q’s regarding boiler life span/replacement and TRV’s life span?  Looked at the Energy Trust website but no help.
Thanks.

That question probably needs its own thread. Basically replace when it starts being uneconomical to repair. If the tiles inside it start to crack for example then it will get condemned. Ask your boiler engineer. At least 10 years life expectancy for a new one though. Most have long warranties these days.

Does anyone know of a good resource for q’s regarding boiler life span/replacement and TRV’s life span? Looked at the Energy Trust website but no help.

Can’t help with TRV lifespan questions (provided the valve body moves freely I’d assume the lifespan is pretty much unlimited if the system runs with inhibitor and is fairly clean) but whoever services your boiler should be able to give you a guess at how much longer it has left based on experience.

Gas boiler and oil boiler are also different animals when it comes to repairability. But provided it’s not leaking and meeting its claimed efficiency figures I don’t think there’s any hurry to bin and replace.

I’ve been thinking about swapping my 15-year-old oil boiler out for a heat pump – mainly to recover a big chunk of space in the garden where the tank lives – but I’m loathe to throw away a perfectly good boiler that’s running at 94% efficiency.

the stove is back in the lounge, still needs some fire cement and refitting the flue, oh and getting some wood delivered as this summers ‘freebies’ didnt appear meaning i reckon on about 1 weeks worth of heating

Feels chilly in the house this morning. Thinking about heating. Check the thermostat, temperature is currently higher than the set temperature anyway!

I’ve been thinking about swapping my 15-year-old oil boiler out for a heat pump – mainly to recover a big chunk of space in the garden where the tank lives – but I’m loathe to throw away a perfectly good boiler that’s running at 94% efficiency

You could end up running at 500% efficiency instead though. Maybe.. if everything else is right. But it’s not cut and dried that a heatpump would save money. I am planning to wait until ours fails to install a heat pump, I just want to be ready when that happens.

Because we have a cheap overnight rate we could use one to keep the house toasty at night when it’s coldest which would result in a lot less power used during the day

perfectly good boiler that’s running at 94% efficiency.

How’s that measured ?

You could end up running at 500% efficiency instead thoug

And that’s unlikely- at times when you actually want heat.

@oceanskipper @Flaperon

According to what I read yesterday, after 10 years a boiler’s efficiency drops to 85%.  After 20 years it’s 75%.  TRVs last for between 10-15 years, plastic can become brittle apparently.  Unfortunately there was no paperwork left when I moved in but do know that the boiler had been serviced annually for 20 years.  Would be useful to know of any repairs carried out.

I will be replacing like for like, not interested in a heat pump.  It may be worth replacing the boiler before the kitchen refurb, whenever that will be.

Decisions decisions!

As an aside, if anyone is looking for a positive ventilation system I have one with an electrical heating element that never got installed. Bought it last year, then we decided to move house so never got fitted.

Think it cost about £350 so if you fancy it PM me with an offer. Chesterfield based.

after 10 years a boiler’s efficiency drops to 85%.  After 20 years it’s 75%

Hard to see what’s driving that other than salesmen . They are incredibly simple units

According to what I read yesterday, after 10 years a boiler’s efficiency drops to 85%. After 20 years it’s 75%

I agree with trail_rat. Perhaps those numbers are worst case scenarios for completely un-serviced units.

You have a burner and a chunk of metal with fins on it that gets hot and heats the water. Perhaps if your chunk of metal were rusty or corroded (as mine is a bit) then efficiency would reduce. Wether or not it’s worth replacing in that scenario depends on how much you can afford to spend on being green, or how much you are spending on gas anyway. If you are spending £300/mo then saving 20% of that will pay for your new boiler much quicker than if you are only spending £50.

TRVs can become brittle but that doesn’t stop them working. They may however randomly fail – our house is 16 years old, one TRV failed a year or two ago.

Hard water area might change things mind you.

It’s October, the sun’s out, it’s 18c outside, and we’ve got all the windows and doors open.

Nope, heating not on yet 😆

It’s October, the sun’s out, it’s 18c outside

Surely in the deep south that’s low enough for heating.

It’s currently 6 degrees outside  and low lying areas are under water here.

Localized power and comms outages due to the water also.

Heatings not on though.  Cycling is a challenge. At the moment I could go for a paddle board from the door and I’m at 60odd meters elevation 5 miles from the nearest major water course.

Hard water area might change things mind you.

A combi boiler that is always having new water ( for the taps) flow through the heat exchanger might well become less efficient and crudded up with calcium/minerals over time , but if its just a system/regular boiler thats just circulating the same water round and round , it probably wont make much difference.

We replaced a (non condensing) regular boiler and vented hot water cylinder from 1992 with a new condensing boiler and large unvented cylinder earlier this year, we also had the whole system flushed and new TRV’s fitted , along with increasing the loft insulation from 10cm to 25cm. Its too early to tell how much these changes will reduce our gas usage by, but so far through the summer its taking about 50%-60% of the gas that we used to use to heat the hot water, and this is with double the hot water capacity than we had before.

I’m hoping for a 20-30% reduction in gas usage over winter, but maybe that will be optimistic…

For reasons unknown, oil has come down a fair chunk this weekend;  I can get it for 68ppl, rather than 80ppl as it was  earlier in the week.

after 10 years a boiler’s efficiency drops to 85%. After 20 years it’s 75%

If you live in a hard water area, never use inhibitor and never descale it, then yes, I could believe that might happen as the heat exchanger fills with limescale.

However, some basic maintenance and I can’t see why it wouldn’t run at the same efficiency for decades.

Our boiler is 30+ years old and still going strong.

As for TRVs, I’ve replaced a couple this year after maybe 10+ years, where the plastic became brittle and the wax module separated from the mechanical valve as the plastic split. They’re dirt cheap though and fairly easy to change, although draining the system is a bit of a PITA.

It’s currently 6 degrees outside and low lying areas are under water here.

Localized power and comms outages due to the water also.

Is this the point where all us southerners feel very smug indeed 🤔 hot and sweaty after a lovely motorbike ride this afternoon

22 degrees in Brighton yesterday. We had dinner outside though we did light the chimenea after dark for a few hours to keep the dew off.

@cinnamon_girl At 20 yrs old it’s well worth checking if yours is a condensing one as that will make a difference.

Had our first gentle freeze over the weekend, nearly went down on my arse outside the back door on friday night.

Had the heat pump serviced on friday, it’s 22 years old. Had a new compressor about 10 years ago, under the manufacturers warranty, as it’s supposed to last the life of the unit. Needed new temp sensor on friday as well (20 quid).
Other than that, it got a clean bill of health.

Had the log burner going on saturday and sunday evenings too. House is warm enough, but wanted to get everything dried out and good to go for when the weather turns properly. (Chimney sweep is due to visit on wednesday too)

I replaced the summer duvet with the winter duvet yesterday. Much better.

Running the central heating for half an hour this morning prior to having smart meters installed this afternoon.

I might light the approved wood burner when the temperatures next drop but I think I’ll use the gas central heating more often this year given the increased price of wood briquettes.

@cinnamon_girl At 20 yrs old it’s well worth checking if yours is a condensing one as that will make a difference.

Condensing isn’t that big a gain and you only get it if you always run it cool enough for it to be able to condense (which I suspect most people aren’t doing). The payback time for swapping out a working non condensing to a condensing one is still over 10 years (when I last did the maths), which isn’t a very strong business case.

Condensing isn’t that big a gain

Really? Everywhere I look there are figures of 20-30% quoted. Is that all just sales pitch rubbish then a bit like car MPG figures? Mind you even if it’s only 10% that’s worth having when bills are £200+ per month. 

Really? Everywhere I look there are figures of 20-30% quoted

thats what Im hoping for having just swapped a non condensing boiler from 1992 for a modern condensing boiler. I dont think the efficiency gains are only in the condensing (although thats probably the lions share), but there are also gains to be made from modern boilers being much more intellgent than just full power heat on or off, ie modern boilers can modulate the burner to reduce short cycling etc,ie reduce the flame, they can also be more intelligent monitoring the temperature of the return flow and keep the pump running when the burner is off etc .

My old 1992 glowworm was literally just full power on or off, based on a mechanical thermostat for the flow temperature. Obviously depends how clever the old boiler is, but in my case I’m hoping for quite a difference.

Mind you even if it’s only 10% that’s worth having when bills are £200+ per month.

That would be £20 a month, say over 6 months of the year so £120 (we use virtually no gas for half the year).

A new boiler all in is probably £3k.

You’ll get your money back in 25 years!

IMO anything over 10 years isn’t worth bothering with.

My old 1992 glowworm was literally just full power on or off, based on a mechanical thermostat for the flow temperature. Obviously depends how clever the old boiler is, but in my case I’m hoping for quite a difference.

Same as our 30+ year old Potterton Nettaheat Electronic (70% efficient). But it works fine, doesn’t short cycle and our gas bill is quite modest. Every time I run the numbers, there’s not a strong case to upgrade. You can still get spares for it and I just keep it going myself, replacing bits when they fail.

That would be £20 a month, say over 6 months of the year so £120 (we use virtually no gas for half the year).

Well, yes at 10% and only for 6 months but at a quoted 30% and assuming most people are heating water even in the summer. so say £500 per year saving, that’s covered the cost in 6 years.

Plus you get a 10 year warranty which is useful for people that don’t do their own maintenance. Specific cases vary quite a lot though obviously. For you clearly not much to be gained. 

but at a quoted 30% and assuming most people are heating water even in the summer. so say £500 per year saving, that’s covered the cost in 6 years.

30% would be a best case assuming the new condensing is always running at a low temp where it can actually condense and the original was very old and not fan assisted. If they end up turning the flow temp up so the house heats up quicker or for warmer hot water, they’ve just thrown away most of the efficiency gain!

£500 a year would mean your original gas bill would have to be several £k, which means a large house or someone who likes living in a sauna.

Our gas bill for HW in summer is only £5 a week ie £20 a month and that’s not scrimping on hot showers (mind you, no teenagers in the house, just cats).

But yes, each case is different…..