yes no plans on ever having children/have never wanted to have children.

Each to their own IMO. I dont resent my son for me getting out on the bike less, but it doesnt mean i miss it, but im not jealous of those who dont have kids, anymore than im jealous of those who own Ibis Mojo's.

My reference to biology was to demonstrate from a biological point of view that that is why we exist. Obviously we have free will and are therfore able to make our own choices.

I woke up about 5am with a sudden realisation – why is it OK to say you don't like children but not to say you don't like black people? It's just raw prejudice. If you don't want to have any that's fine, it's your choice, but if you dislike children themselves please keep your thoughts to yourself!

It doesn't even make any sense – I've never been gay or black or un-british, but I have clear memories of being a child (and I had equal lack of choice about the matter). I'll admit there are things about myself as a child I dislike – I was selfish, violent and bad tempered, but to some extent I have grown out of those things – and there's no way to get here without being there first.

It is not raw prejudice at all in the same way as racism SFB.

What's the point to this, really? I've got four kids (two grown up and two tiny ones that we adopted four years ago – up yours madonna!). I love them all dearly, but dont expect anyone else to, or for that matter, to have or expect an opinion from. It's about personal choice at the end of the day, and just because I chose to have kids, that doesnt make me any better than someone who doesnt want children, or them any worse.

Barnsleymitch wish more people in this world had your attitude to children!!

It is not raw prejudice at all in the same way as racism SFB.

I agree – it's worse as it's more insidious and endemic. Children should be our hope for the future, yet they're steadily being marginalised by fearful oldies and face having their spirits crushed by pointless testing and diminishing prospects 🙁

My riding pal has a 60K Merc & a 650K house, a lovely missus as well. No kids, he's 42 & his next step may be a black lab.
Work it out.

That he's a jaffa?

Also, accusations of selfishness directed to parents for having children are misplaced, unless you actually dislike life and people generally. We only get here by people having children. I certainly cherish life and enjoy (limited) sociability, and that's only possible because my parents made me, and although initially I lacked enthusiasm (being a selfish person) once I actually held the little wriggly thing in my arms I loved my child without question, and was proud to the best I could for my kids. Would you prefer your parents to have had an extra car and more holidays and not bothered having you ? Parenthood is an expression of faith in the future and humankind, and though we may be too clever for our own good and not clever enough to restrain our rapaciousness, it only matters about destroying the ecosystem because of the sufferings of our future generations, as there are uncountable planetsful of other ecosystems lying fallow elsewhere.

Something that has interested me for a while (39 and yes/no/yes/no/yes/no/yes/no to having kids). I notice it is mostly men who have ended up with more time to do things (bikers, degrees, jobs)after kids have come along……….I'm guessing it is not quite the same for the Mums!? ;-D

Children should be our hope for the future, yet they're steadily being marginalised by fearful oldies and face having their spirits crushed by pointless testing and diminishing prospects

Yup, and I'll add that the retiring age is been raised as unemployment rises making prospects for the young even worse. The 68 generation now owns almost everything, controls everything and is hogging power in both politics and the work place.

It's just raw prejudice. If you don't want to have any that's fine, it's your choice, but if you dislike children themselves please keep your thoughts to yourself!

And an alternative view

It's just raw prejudice. If you want to have any that's fine, it's your choice, but if you like children themselves please keep your thoughts to yourself!

😈

The 68 generation now owns almost everything, controls everything and is hogging power in both politics and the work place.

Ah, another person who shares my prejudiced world view. Excellent. 😀

And an alternative view

It's just raw prejudice. If you want to have any that's fine, it's your choice, but if you like children themselves please keep your thoughts to yourself!

just replace "children" with blacks, gays, Jews etc and see how it goes…

TandemJeremy – Member
It is not raw prejudice at all in the same way as racism SFB.

bigyinn – what was your point? You seem to have just requoted TJ…

what a fascinating thread. Having a 15 month old has been the hardest and the best thing we've ever done. I was resolutely against having kids until I was about in my late 20's. then I could maybe see myself as a dad, then we realised it was something we both wanted.

You should print this thread off and read it in 10 years time – reckon it would be fascinating to see how you change..

Having a 15 month old has been the hardest and the best thing we've ever done.

did you skip the first 14 months?

If you sort of want kids, but are keen to retain some freedom. Get some ready made ones. It works well for me.

Pre made – live with their father, (I needless to say live with their mother), visit regularly, but go home! And – when they turn up, it seems to be entirely reasonable for me to make myself scarce with no objections from anyone. Usually we have have them over on Tuesday evening, Thursday evening and Saturday. Which fits nicely with my riding schedule!

"did you skip the first 14 months?"
If I'm honest, I sometimes wished we could have skipped the 1st 6 months 😕 But some found it easy.

For me its all been about prioritising – I was never huge on big drinking nights out so now focus on using the time I do have on things I really want to do surfing and riding – I've been surfing more in the last year than before we had her. and i still go riding with my wife plenty – which is what nurseries are for.

SFB, i can't remember my point now, that was yesterday. I 'think' i was being slightly ironic.

simonofbarnes where did i say that i disliked children?i was only saying that i didn't want to have children myself.p.s if you were talking to someone else than apologies/my mistake (i haven't read the whole thread) 😳