Raising kids is hard, no doubt about it, and a commitment.
But if there was no reward in it then there would be a lot less kids out there. Not something that you'll understand if you're never going to have them. But one example is Christmas – the first 33 were normal, the last 3 have been ace with two kids.
Another example, fell off the bike a few weeks back, broke nose etc. Anyway, taking the two out in the bike trailer and had a steady stream of "don't fall off your bike Daddy" very cute.
And the one that made me cry – whilst talking to our 3 year old I asked her what her favourite colour was, her answer "The colour of your eyes Daddy". Bless.
Good luck to you when you're older chap, hope your lifestyle suits you once the choice is gone (as I do mine!)

thepurist – Member

MF – what about the bit in 'Life On Earth' where a population stabilises at the level that its environment can sustain, rather than using individuals to bring extra resources to them from other places so they can keep breeding. Or doesn't that apply to humans as well?

we've bypassed these natural limiters through philantrophy and modern medicines.

oh, i don't worry about it that much. just had a discussion with the GF and our mates about it last night. in all honesty, i don't think that matey regrets having a son but at the same time wishes he didn't have the added responsibility of another dependent. matette is happy and i'm really impressed with how she copes with both the child and her fella….

Why worry about something you have no control or influence over Alpin?

mastiles_fanylion – Member

People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying. Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work or in carparks

People or just the stereotype of parents you have in your head?

Its almost all parents I hasve met. Some seem to manage a bit of balance but for muost because their child is the most important thing in their life they think it should be the most important thing in everyones life.

The childless support those with children thru tax and benefits, we get the last pic of the holiday at wotk as those with kids need the school holidays, family friendly hours meaning the childless have all the unfriendly hours, blocking the streets on teh school run. you get parent and child parking ewtc etc.

For the vast majority of parents I have met having children turns them into selfish and uncompromising individuals with no idea that not all of us think that the sun shines out of your brats fundament.

i see what you're getting at there, Edukator…..

could always get her drunk and push her down the stairs if it does happen, eh?

For the vast majority of parents I have met having children turns them into selfish and uncompromising individuals with no idea that not all of us think that the sun shines out of your brats fundament.

What a load of tosh

Does that include your parents?

I really don't understand the car parking thing.

While it's very helpful to have wider spaces, there's no need whatsoever for them to be right next to the store.

The childless support those with children thru tax and benefits

In the short term maybe..

However, those children go on to be productive, tax paying citizens (in the main) that our society (as it is) needs. That's the societal balance I'm afraid. You makes your choices etc

I say dont do it. My partner felt that you have to otherwise people will think that you are selfish. Sorry- some people are born to have children, others not. I dont see the problem. Only one of my Uncles decided not to endure children. I dont see anything wrong with that.

those with kids need the school holidays, family friendly hours meaning the childless have all the unfriendly hours, blocking the streets on teh school run. you get parent and child parking ewtc etc.

While it's very helpful to have wider spaces, there's no need whatsoever for them to be right next to the store

Jeebus not this crap again. 🙄

For the vast majority of parents I have met having children turns them into selfish and uncompromising individuals

Sounds like someone I know on here. Rides a two-person bike a lot and tends to be completely blinkered…

Besides, TJ, who's going to pay for your lavish public sector pension 😉

alpin, you sound pretty imature…………wait a few years till you grow up a bit. 8)

we get the last pic of the holiday at wotk as those with kids need the school holidays

Nowhere I've worked ever had a policy like that, when I am now operates a 'first come, first served' policy

besides, most of the [childless] people I work with would rather have their hols at other times than the schools

i'd be happy not to have kids… hold on, i haven't got any… cool.

seriously, i haven't read all the replies so don't know what others are saying but both me and my partner (gf) are 43, we've been together since we were 17 and although when we were younger we'd sometimes talk (very light heartedly) about the future and what we might be doing, when we actually thought about it seriously neither of us wanted a family.

i remember at 25 thinking, jesus, my brother had got 2 kids by this age, and the responsibility just scared me to death.

as for doing what you want, when you want… absolutily. you holiday in school time… so you can have 2 holidays for the price of one, you go out when you want, you only have to buy one pair of vans trainers at a time (or more if you like), you get the jist.

however… when you phone your friends up to go out, guess what, they can't because they've got kids! what it has meant is that over the years i've always had mates who were in their 20's, mainly through work, and as they get older, get married, have kids they are replaced with new mates.

now though, my mates from years ago are coming back into the fray, as their kids have grown up.

also alot of life is geared to family life, i have a theory that successive governments/employers want you to get married, get a big mortgage and have 2.2 children cos then they've got you by the bollocks. when you've got all those responsibilities you're not going to rock the boat, want to go out with your kids on saturday but the boss wants you to do overtime… you'll be at work!

of my friends that have children, i'm sorry, but their lives are so mundane, football practice, horse riding lessons, birthday parties, ballet lessons, they don't do **** all for themselves they just live life through their kids.

there's more, most of my friends and family with children are old farts, my brother, 47, acts like he's 67, same with friends. i don't know if it's because i haven't got kids but i don't think i had to grow up, go to gigs and get in the mosh, went to the cinema last week with my 17 and 22 years old nieces while my brother and sister-in-law stayed at home, probably went to bed at 10!!!!

like i said i'm 43, no kids and no regrets.

[EDIT] shit… look how long that is… sorry about that!

alpin – Member

i've come to realise just how much stress and effort it is.

not having to worry about going for a ride for 4 hours; taking holidays when I (note capital 'i') want; stasying up till three and waking at 10;

er.. I manage all that just fine with a 7yr old and 4month old of my own and 2 more (girlfriend's 8 & 12yr olds) not to mention the other 10 kids that I look after during the week

couldn't be arsed trawling through any of the thread but..
TJ – RE: your comment above – try not to tar us all with your narrowminded old brush, eh? 😛

<EDIT> Wow I typed slow!!

lol at tj.

i hope i'm not like that. i certain try not to be.

it would be nice to have more free time but when i do have the option i find it very hard to stop playing with the kids and go out. they are too much fun.

GW – I did say most. You do seem to be well balanced about it and some others are as well – but the vast majority of parents I know have lost all perspective as can be seen for the antipodean noise thread.

but the vast majority of parents

Nope, probably just the ones you notice. Just like when people talk about youths all causing trouble when hanging around on street corners/etc.

For someone who talks so much about equality and so on, your lack of self awareness about your own narrow-mindedness constantly amazes me TJ. Maybe it's just the way you come across over the internet. I certainly hope so.

most of the [childless] people I work with would rather have their hols at other times than the schools

Likewise, they're very useful in that they're usually far more likely to cover on call and overtime over traditionally family periods like christmas.

I wish we'd had more kids, too late now though.

This is me and the boy wandering where all the spare time, lie ins, money, holidays and nice bike bits went. Number two arrives next month, maybe she'll know.

(**** hard work but worth it imo, I'm having my bollocks off at 2 though, I'm not that stupid!)

Can I just say this is one of the finest Monday morning trolls I have seen in a long long time. I take my hat off to you alpin, I'm loving it.

Clubber – there is a difference between narrow mindedness and strong unorthodox views. I am not narrow-minded in the slightest and I am far more community minded than the majority. I have spent my life looking after the frail and needy, I look after my frail neighbour as his family live a fair way away.

I find that its the parents who are narrow minded with their total inability to understand that their kids do not come first in my life.

No kids- More money and a hell of a lot free time to indulge your passions.

However its likely you'll die alone in some shabby nursing home 😀

The great thing about Human beings is that in the most part we get used to our lot as it is offered up pretty quick. Those with kids mold their personality and preferences to the task and the childless likewise. Most of us can't perceive of a world without our parents when they are still around but if the world goes as it should we all experience that and you do get used to it. Same with kids I guess.

One quick question – how many of the menfolk out there honestly feel they had an equal part in the decision to have sprongs? From my experience most of my males friends have been perfectly happy childless and whilst having adapted to fatherhood well, have only been nudged into it be a partners decision. I think us men are putty in their hands.

However its likely you'll die alone in some shabby nursing home

I didn't have a kid so he could look after me in my old age, what a horrible burden to lay on him. I'll phone the nursing home myself when the time comes.

TJ – Sorry but grouping nearly all parents into one groups is narrow-minded. I've never said that you're not community minded/spirited but since that's not mutually exclusive then that's not relevant.

I had/have a strong dislike for exactly those parents that do think that their kids should be treated as the centre of the universe by everyone else and was actually quite concerned that once I was a parent that I'd end up having to mix with people like that as I have seen people who were previously friends turn that way once their prodigys arrived.

Luckily, it's simply not the case. There certainly are some but since there are selfish, self-centred people in the world that's hardly surprising. It's not the norm and not accepted by the majority of other parents.

I think my son's absolutely the best thing in the world but don't for a moment expect other people to think the same or treat him accordingly.

dyna-ti – Member

However its likely you'll die alone in some shabby nursing home

i think even with kids this is likely…..

my cousins threat to his old man used to be "just remember I'M the one who chooses which home you go to!"

One quick question – how many of the menfolk out there honestly feel they had an equal part in the decision to have sprongs?

<Hand up>

In fact, I was probably the one who felt more strongly in favour of it at the time (though it was always a discussion of when rather than if).

One quick question – how many of the menfolk out there honestly feel they had an equal part in the decision to have sprongs?

I'd say the decision was more mine than theirs (2 different mothers) – but I am (and always have been) the main carer 😉

no plans here

concious decision that we both took

parenting looks to be an immensely rewarding experience but is just not for us.

From my experience most of my males friends have been perfectly happy childless and whilst having adapted to fatherhood well, have only been nudged into it be a partners decision. I think us men are putty in their hands.

Undoubtedly true, but IME "we'll do it later" men (like me) sometimes need reminding that there is a certain age where there is no longer a "later" available for women.

Personally we only started "preparing to try" when I realised I was ready.
Before that we had many conversations along the lines of "I'm happy the way we are. We don't have to have kids", but at a nice meal on our anniversary I realised it was time…

..because we'd run out of things to talk about 😀

I'm having my bollocks off at 2 though

Kudos to therealhoops for giving his input approximately an hour before a painful op.

In my experience it is the vast majority of parents who become selfish and narrowminded. I think most of them simply don't realise that they are doing this. What seems reasonable to them appears unreasonable to the rest of us.

See teh noise / neighbour post for many examples

Don't do it realhoops, a combination of condoms and rythme work fine.

I got two kids,
The simplest thing I can say about having kids is that you don't realise theres a gap in your life to fill until they have filled it.

Once the kids are there the things you think your too selfish to miss don't quite mean as much, that doesn't mean biking suffers really, you just do it at different time i.e. more night rides:)

a combination of condoms and rythme work fine.

Hope your sense of rhythm is better than your spelling…

..or were you suggesting using poetry as a contraceptive aid 😀

Sorry, TJ you are talking rubbish. It's not most, it's some and as ever, a few people who make a point that you find unreasonable seem to be being used as an excuse to back up your prejudice. Nice.

FWIW, I didn't post on the noise thread because I thought the reasonable answer was self evident (as I suspect is the case for most reasonable people). I have a neighbour who is actually a STWer who also rides motorbikes. There have been several occassions where his motorbikes have woken up my son and I won't deny that I've sworn but that's at the circumstance not the cause. I've never commented to him because I don't think he's being unreasonable going out on his motorbike when he does (If you're reading, seriously, it's fine!). Similar for neigbhbours doing DIY and so on. Making lots of noise at 1am isn't reasonable but that's nothing to do with having kids or not.

Can't see anything wrong with "rythme" myself Graham, looks fine, in fact it's one of only words three words my spell checker hasn't underlined in red.

mastiles_fanylion – Member
People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying. Plus theyre so stressed they need special priviledges at work or in carparks

People or just the stereotype of parents you have in your head?

Its almost all parents I hasve met. Some seem to manage a bit of balance but for muost because their child is the most important thing in their life they think it should be the most important thing in everyones life.

We obviously fly with very different flocks. None one the parents I know meet your description of a parent. I pity you for having that sort of people around you.