Can I go into miserable old git mode please?

no you may not!

children born out of wedlock!!!

What gets me is the amount of bad parenting I see. For example, parents seem unable to use the word "no" as well as looking the other way when their offspring misbehaves. It's sheer laziness!

Saying no is one of the most satisfying things a parent gets to do. The little horror has been causing you grief all the way round the supermarket and then right at the end they ask for a lollypop.

"No"

And try to hide the smirk as they have a tantrum about it.

therealhoops that is one of my alltime favourite Black adder episodes 8)

What gets me is the amount of bad parenting I see. For example, parents seem unable to use the word "no" as well as looking the other way when their offspring misbehaves. It's sheer laziness!

If Mrs North and I have any offspring, I fear I may be too strict. I'm a bit Victorian with my godchildren, but it seems to do them some good when I return them to their parents who comment on how well behaved little X has been sinc Mrs North and I did the babysitting.

And whilst I'm on a roll, I don't want "family-friendly" pubs/restaurants. They didn't exist when mine were young and I'm glad, would not have felt comfortable taking them out to eat.

Hideous places. I would never dare enter such a place now or in the future. But then, I shall ensure that any children I have are sufficiently well trained to be out in public in the first place.

That's another thing, kids don't know how to eat with cutlery and parents think it's OK to let them throw food on the floor in a public place

This seems to exist with many more than just children. I work with people who are educated, and have been to decent universities, and yet the number I see unable to eat with a knife and fork, or hold their knife like a pen, are rather embarrassing. It isn't embarrassing because I think it's an important thing, but I have enough clients who do place importance on this and I cringe when some colleagues come out to lunch or dinner. Plebs.

Just thought of another thing 🙄

Just thought of another thing 🙄

Parents more interested in wittering away on their mobile instead of supervising their kids.

And another:

Letting kids put their feet on seats in public places, and even standing on said seats 😯

Blimey, I was such a perfect mother 🙄

and yet the number I see unable to eat with a knife and fork

one of the advantages of vegetarianism is not needing a knife 🙂 In fact, I prefer a spoon or just gobbling straight off the plate 🙂

Letting kids put their feet on seats in public places, and even standing on said seats

as soon as you say this stuff I want to go and do it…

as soon as you say this stuff I want to go and do it…

Naughty Simon 😉

Naughty Simon

I don't want children to be obedient, at least, not as muach as I want them to be I want them to be interesting, creative and fun. Obedience is for dogs and soldiers.

I haven't read all of this thread, it seems to be growing very quickly (and possibly degenerating just as quickly in the usual STW way), but…

I'm very happy for all those people who live happy, fulfilled lives with children, I know from my many friends and my two brothers who have kids that they have a great life, for them that at least.

But my Fiancee and I (I'm 40, she is 38) are in 100% complete, honest, agreement that it's not the life we want. We have a great lifestyle, complete flexibility, plenty of disposable income to spend on bikes, kayaks, lots of other toys, holidays, going out, cars, nice houses etc. We can go for a ride (together) whenever and for as long we want, go to the pub when we feel like it and pretty much go anywhere and do anything we want to. This might seem like a shallow life to some people, but then only in the same way that we don't understand at all the pleasure that parents get from having children.

The only possible way I can explain it is that I don't want to spend my life watching someone else (i.e. my children) having fun, I want to be the one having fun.

And that's the thing for me, some people may say that we're put on the earth to procreate, I disagree, as far as I can see we're put on this earth for one thing only, and that's to have a good time.

None of us should ram our way of life down other people's throats, if people want to go off and have loads of babies then good for them, that's less people out cluttering up the trails on a Saturday morning as far as I can see.

Maybe I just don't have the 'parent' gene. There never has, ever, not in the slightest tiny way, ever been a time when I have thought that having kids would be a good thing. I LOVE my life. When I die, I want to come back as me, and do everything the same as I've done it this time, it is THAT much fun!

Oh how it amuses me.

Clubber – you cannot say that my expereience is not what it is.

In my experie3ence most ( but not all)people become incredibly selfish once they become parents.

That is my experience your may differ.

Bigyinn. Bitter ands resentful? Where? I am a very content and happy chap without rancour.

typical stw.

nice one driller. talking my language. can you have a word with the SO?

Its right about the comments enjoying your own kids but not particularly others. A bit like farting really.

ART exactly what you say though people say "shame" why is it a shame that some people don't want children It's not a blinking shame at all it's flipping great skiing for 10 days in winter, MTBing abroad for 2 weeks in summer .. couldn't do that with kids!! Again it's choices and some people realise they will be lousy parents… better not to have them than to like a lot of types in this world!

My lass is reading EVERY book written and she says to me everynight (inbetween cramming for some virtual exam) that shes worried shes not reading enough/taking it all in.

I'm the opposite- take it easy/relax- stress and you'll end up stressed (or calling the Rozzers) 🙄

rumbledethumps – Member
A bit like farting really.

Not really. People love my farts- normally attractive work colleagues or blondes in bars- as soon as I quiff they all want to suddenly come and talk to me.

I'm mid thirties, single and have no kids. I date but I'm not on the hunt for the 'one', as so many of my peers seem to be, so cannot really see how I will ever have them. I have good friends and family, love my job, have plenty of time for hobbies and am lucky enough to get as much female company as I want. I really chuffed folk marry and have kids and are happy, it is their choice and I'm good with that. I am aware more people think I'm odd for not wanting this, but I'm also good with this as it's my choice. We only get one shot at all of this, you have to make your own choices.

I have three fairly grown up boys, couldn't even get them to go riding in the snow with me last weekend – where did I go wrong?

Driller – could I please cut and paste your above for future use? Nicely put – it's all about a decision that works for you and not ramming your decisions, opinions and lifestyle down other's throats.

It's a damn good job that we are all a bit different and don't all get off on the same things or the world would be a dull old place.

Smell_it but people think it's wrong that you don't want to! Mr MC and I always get asked when we're getting hitched (as we've been together 7 years considerably longer than our married mates). I still think a lot of people I know will divorce whilst me and MR MC are still together and happy but not married!!

This might seem like a shallow life to some people

Ignore those people, it's not shallow at all. Alpin is at least thinking about it rather than settling for the default position.

it's flipping great skiing for 10 days in winter, MTBing abroad for 2 weeks in summer .. couldn't do that with kids!!

Why not? We fully intend to. Our mate comes skiing with us every year, usually for two weeks, and he brings his two young kids.

We're off to Fernie in a few weeks. His kids will be there. My pregnant missus will be too. Once junior arrives we'll probably just skip a year then be back again.

hmmmmm….picturing Hora letting of a real bronx cheer as girls swoon to the the guff.

You are quite a man. And I salute you.

Smell_it but people think it's wrong that you don't want to! Mr MC and I always get asked when we're getting hitched (as we've been together 7 years considerably longer than our married mates). I still think a lot of people I know will divorce whilst me and MR MC are still together and happy but not married!!

I'm not sure they think it's "wrong" to remain unmarried, just that for many there was a time (i.e. when they were young) when there was much more of a societal expectation that one would marry. It's also the same with children. They are not trying to be offensive, and most would likely be mortified that you feel as you do.

Mrs North and I have been together for over 13 years. We don't feel strongly that we should get married and are trying for children, a decision made jointly and after much discussion. Sometimes I refer to her as my wife, but that's just for convenience, because it's one syllable as opposed to two (partner) or three (fiancée).

I suspect some might raise eyebrows privately if we have a child before being married, but so what. It really doesn't stress me.

Let it sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide 😀

I can understand not being fussed about being married. I wasn't. We were together for about 12 years before we got wed.

But I'm not sure why you would remain so if you're planning kids? Surely a child is a far bigger commitment than marriage anyway?

Also bear in mind that if/when the tories get into power they plan tax breaks to married couples with kids! 🙂

You'll have no trouble Graham. 40 to 50 days of skiing and lots of MTBing though I'm not sure where this abroad place starts. Baby seat on bike, baby jogger, pulka or back back on skis. There are solutions to all the problems the nay sayers can come up with (if you have enough time and money).

hmm

She does not want/like children at all. Part of me does, part of me doesn't. I'm convinced we'd be shocking parents so best not for the unborn child's sake!

Inspiration

TandemJeremy – Member
Oh how it amuses me.
Clubber – you cannot say that my expereience is not what it is.
In my experie3ence most ( but not all)people become incredibly selfish once they become parents.
That is my experience your may differ.

substitute 'most parents I have met' for 'most young people/most immigrants/most black people' and you'd be screaming blue murder and calling the poster a Daily Mail reading Nazi even though they could make exactly the same justification. . A blinkered view doesn't make you right. You evidently expect this sort of behaviour from parents So it's easy to reinforce the negative stereotype while ignoring anything to the contrary.

Oh and TJ did/do your parents fit your stereotype? You didn't answer that question.

My wife and I were p**sing away our lives drinking all the time, going out, getting fat on Takeaways and spending every weekend sleeping until 4 in the afternoon if we were not at work so our decision was a little different to yours.

We decided to turn our lives around and had a child soon afterward. We couldnt afford to run 2 cars now, so I decided to commute to work on my bike. (the first time in 10 years)

Now, 2 years on I am fitter and thinner than I have been for years (although Xmas has a lot to answer for) and the happiest I have ever been. Nothing could have prepared me for the utter joy and daily astonishment you feel when seeing that child develop…

however I wonder what our decision would have been if our lives were different before then (ie if we were fit and actually did stuff.
The brutal truth is that I never get out on my bike nearly enough as I would like; its just not possible. I work 6 days a week regularly, sometimes 7 so the time that I have left is time spent with my Wife and Son – time you can NEVER get back if you squander it. My bike time is usually done after dark or at odd times around shifs; very very rarely at weekends .

Your life will change forever, its true, but you will never resent your child for it. Without a shadow of a doubt this has been the hardest, funniest, scariest, most enjoyable, most tiring, most rewarding mental 2 years of my life.

I discovered mountail biking BECAUSE I had a child!

good luck in your decision

No I would not. You fail to understand the difference between "all I have met" and "All of them"

To say "In my experience all / all I have met parents turn into selfish people" is simply my experience – it is not stereotyping. "To say all parents turn into selfish people" is sterotyping. The first is what I personally have experienced and thus is true, the second is generalising. Its a subtle but important difference and I have defended people on here from accusations of racism when they used the first construction. Your experience is what it is. To generalise from this is usually wrong.

It is not racist to say " every black man I have met is thick" It is racist to say " every black man is thick"

Oh and TJ did/do your parents fit your stereotype?

surely it's hereditary ??

clubber – Premier Member

Oh and TJ did/do your parents fit your stereotype? You didn't answer that question.

I wouldn't know – how on earth could I. They are very sociable and generous people and were not precious and overprotective towards me but how selfish they were in their relationships outside the family I would not know.

I am the easygoing and least confrontational of my family however

Munge-chick – I find most folk think it's odd that I don't want marriage and kids. there are a few that think it's wrong, but they tend to be the folk that have forgot that choice is about weighing up pro's and cons, and then deciding on the option with the most acceptable compromises and benefits. I think once they have lost perspective on their own choices/ situation being 'right' is the only way to accept it. As I say I think most folk aren't that bothered and just think I'm a bit odd 😀

When you tell people you like cycling, if they don't ride a bike they simply can't understand it. It's bloody hard work, you get covered in mud/run down by cars, and can be cold and wet and miserable. Yet most people on this website would say it has added something valuable to their lives, I think. But if you hadn't really ridden bikes, you may find that hard to believe.

pretty obvious where I'm going here so I CBA to type it out…

Your response TJ depends very
much on how unbiased and objective your view is. If you say all black people are thick because you expected them to be and picked up on stupid behaviour (we are all stupid somtimes) rather than because they actually have consistently been then, that's racist and down to you own negative expectation.

It's not a blinking shame at all it's flipping great skiing for 10 days in winter, MTBing abroad for 2 weeks in summer .. couldn't do that with kids!!

Let me see now
Last year apart from being out most Saturdays ….
Easter – Glentress for 5 days
May – long weekend Afan
June – 2 weeks in Colorado
August – long weekend Spain
October – long weekend Afan

Yup – it's impossible 🙂

When you tell people you like cycling, if they don't ride a bike they simply can't understand it. It's bloody hard work, you get covered in mud/run down by cars, and can be cold and wet and miserable. Yet most people on this website would say it has added something valuable to their lives, I think. But if you hadn't really ridden bikes, you may find that hard to believe.

pretty obvious where I'm going here so I CBA to type it out…

I have a mate that calls what we do "boring" even though he has never actually done it. (he likes to bivvvy up next to a lake for 12hrs waiting for a carp to ring an alarm)

Let me see now
Last year apart from being out most Saturdays ….
Easter – Glentress for 5 days
May – long weekend Afan
June – 2 weeks in Colorado
August – long weekend Spain
October – long weekend Afan

Yup – it's impossible

sorry but for me that would be totally impossible. I work all week leaving my wife to look after my son. If I then spent the time I had left in the saddle, she is still left holding the baby and I miss out on all the good stuff. If it was the other was round there would be no way I would put up with that..

unless you are bringing your baby with you that is a lot of precious time your are missing out on there

I suggest members spend more than a couple of days as an independant traveller in North Africa before shouting to loud that they are not racist.