Not having children

I find that a rather selfish attitude tbh. I know I’ll go through it with my folks, and I’ll do it willingly, but I’ve seen the effect caring for an aging, senile parent has had on my mother and I certainly wouldn’t consider that a good reason to have kids. Quite the opposite in fact, to me it would be a reason not to have kids as I’d not want them to feel responsible for me when I’m old. It’s hellish draining being a carer for someone and often means you can’t live your own life. I’d not want to inflict that on my offspring.

Selfish, that I’m around to make sure my parents are ok? And (hopefully) my children, me.

What would you rather had happened to your grandparent, dumped in a home and/or worse? And with that attitude what hope has your Mother when she is in need?

Well, when if you have one (and from what I know of you, you’re the type of guy who should be passing on his genes

😀

Me neither and the good thing is you know you will always be a better father than that **** was – I know nothing of your situation I speak personally

I’d like to think I’d make a better job of it than my dad did – but in the back of my mind I suppose there is a worry that I wouldn’t.

Every time I leave house, my 2 year old always runs to a window to wave me goodbye, he has a very sad eyes when doing it. Unconditional love you will never experience for any money.

Puppies aren’t that expensive you know.

If you want kids, have them. If you don’t, then don’t.
The argument against having kids that there’s too many people is ridiculous. Why don’t you campaign against medicine saving lives instead? Perhaps ban life support machines or cancel cancer treatment?

If there were an option to go straight to grandchildren, missing out the intervening step, that may solve a few headaches.

You have no idea the special relationship your missing.

This is the arrogant approach that really bugs me. Yes I do have an idea. No I don’t want kids.

You did however want kids, but conversely you’re not going to catch me saying “You have no idea of the special life you’re missing” because I’m not arrogant enough to think I have any idea about you or what makes you happy.

Rant over. Sorry, but that assumptive attitude of “you don’t know what your missing/You’ll understand when you have them” really annoys me.

Rant actually over!

Im pretty sure I would not have felt I missed out if I hadnt had one. The one I did have has turned out pretty cool though so I am quite happy, top riding partner for long summer holidays :-). However, if he had turned into a PITA I would probably be regretting the decision.

Each to his own, I fully understand why some people prefer to not have the hassle of kids and prefer to do their own thing.

The argument against having kids that there’s too many people is ridiculous. Why don’t you campaign against medicine saving lives instead? Perhaps ban life support machines or cancel cancer treatment?

Or nuke India and China, that would sort it.

b r – Member
Selfish, that I’m around to make sure my parents are ok?

No, selfish that you think a good reason for having kids is so you’d have someone to look after you in your old age. Sorry to have a difference of opinion, I know this is the internet and everyone is supposed to have the same views, but I just don’t see things that way. I guess I just don’t like imposing on people or relying on them in that way.

b r – Member
And with that attitude what hope has your Mother when she is in need?

I think I already covered that…

dashed – Member
I know I’ll go through it with my folks, and I’ll do it willingly,

Plenty of good reasons to have kids, but I don’t think that care in your old age is one of them. It can destroy your kids lives – I wouldn’t want to wish that on any of my kids…

Grum, you inflicted good hook. I didn’t think about puppies. They’re good substitute to those who can’t have children.

The argument against having kids that there’s too many people is ridiculous.

Unlike your logically flawless argument here:

Why don’t you campaign against medicine saving lives instead? Perhaps ban life support machines or cancel cancer treatment?

Can you really not see a fairly large difference between not having kids and letting people die unnecessarily of horrific diseases?

How’s about compulsory euthanasia for those without kids?

Can you really not see a fairly large difference between not having kids and letting people die unnecessarily of horrific diseases?

Not when the argument is about over population, which is widely accepted as because people are living longer due to advancements in science/medicine. Suggesting that people shouldn’t have kids because we’ve manufactured ways of preventing death is ridiculous.

This is the arrogant approach that really bugs me. Yes I do have an idea. No I don’t want kids.

Whilst I see the reason for your annoyance, he’s still right. I was a pretty reluctant dad (I reckon many are). In the end I decided that my own selfish and shallow reasons for not wanting kids were not enough to deny my partner something that was incredibly important to her and also that our relationship was bigger and more important than any reason I could think for not having kids. Right up to the last minute I was reluctant, worried, apprehensive, however the minute the first one was born everything changed in an instant. I suddenly got it. It’s not something I can really explain, but it’s like a switch goes off in your head that makes all the bad stuff disappear, in place of lots of good stuff that you’d never even imagined. So whatever your pre-conceptions, ignore them because they’re probably wrong. It’s basically a leap of faith, and one that very few regret.

Why don’t you campaign against medicine saving lives instead? Perhaps ban life support machines or cancel cancer treatment?

Mathematically both approaches ‘may’ end up with the same population figures but letting people die unnecessarily is very different to not adding to the population in the first place.

Not that I think the population expansion argument is particularly genuine. It always feels more like an attempt to take the moral high ground in the child vs childless discussions. Personally, I’ve not had children because I’ve no desire to have them, to me that seems to be all the reason that anyone would need.

People round here seem to have two children so ‘x’ will have a sibling/someone to play with and its the right number.

When everyone else had their first kid within the social circle there seemed to be a pressure ‘oh its great, the labour isn’t that bad’ etc.

Then after the first one you get the first paragraph- a sort of gentle peer pressure.

Don’t be a bloody sheep. I wanted to go away to London for my birthday. Fat **** chance. We have to take hora junior. Lovely fella but its an early night for all when you go away as (rightfully) no one wants you in their restaurant or bar after 5pm. Lets face it.

You only get one shot at life so why spend two decades compromising the best years?

Suggesting that people shouldn’t have kids because we’ve manufactured ways of preventing death is ridiculous.

I’m not sure anyone is saying no-one should have kids – just that in general we should have less kids. I don’t see what’s so crazy about that. I agree with muppetwrangler though that I doubt it’s a big factor for many people in deciding.

I just wish people would stop presenting breeding as some kind of noble calling, granting the world the precious gift of their incredible offspring (as well as making them a superior person).

One of the main things putting me off having kids is the danger of becoming like seemingly every single bloody parent I know who has a Facebook account, and will not shut up about the incredible shits their children have been doing, or whatever it is this minute. 🙂

Whilst I see the reason for your annoyance, he’s still right. I was a pretty reluctant dad (I reckon many are). In the end I decided that my own selfish and shallow reasons for not wanting kids were not enough to deny my partner something that was incredibly important to her and also that our relationship was bigger and more important than any reason I could think for not having kids. Right up to the last minute I was reluctant, worried, apprehensive, however the minute the first one was born everything changed in an instant. I suddenly got it. It’s not something I can really explain, but it’s like a switch goes off in your head that makes all the bad stuff disappear, in place of lots of good stuff that you’d never even imagined. So whatever your pre-conceptions, ignore them because they’re probably wrong. It’s basically a leap of faith, and one that very few regret.

I’m sorry but that is just another bunch of arrogant nonsence that winds up those of us without kids. Okay so you have kids and are happy with the choices being made but how about just letting those of us who either don’t want or can’t have kids be at peace with our decision. It’s not the right choice for everyone so how about you stop trying to get everyone to make the same decision you you did.

Mathematically both approaches ‘may’ end up with the same population figures but letting people die unnecessarily is very different to not adding to the population in the first place.

Knocking off all the auld codgers would save vastly more resources though..
Plus you get the added bonus of not having to listen to boring and depressing sentimental and confused drivel, fun wouldn’t be quite so frowned upon and the whole country would smell slightly less of wee and imperial leather..

Euthanasia for our youth and future – bring out your nearly dead 😈

every single bloody parent I know who has a Facebook account, and will not shut up about the incredible shits their children have been doing

I have a very nice shot of yunki Jr standing proudly next to his first poo in a potty if you’d like me to send it over Grum..? 😉

One of the main things putting me off having kids is the danger of becoming like seemingly every single bloody parent I know who has a Facebook account, and will not shut up about the incredible shits their children have been doing, or whatever it is this minute.

I can answer this one. Thats/this is me. You literally are a servant, have nothing left of interest about you.

Oh money is tight (unless you are loaded) but of course you ‘cope’/you ‘find a way’. 🙄

Whilst I see the reason for your annoyance, he’s still right. I was a pretty reluctant dad (I reckon many are). In the end I decided that my own selfish and shallow reasons for not wanting kids were not enough to deny my partner something that was incredibly important to her and also that our relationship was bigger and more important than any reason I could think for not having kids.

Sorry but you could quite easily view that as you being pressured into doing something you didn’t want to do, and now you’re rationalising it because no-one would want to admit they got bullied into making a massive mistake.

Who says your reasons were selfish and shallow whereas your wife’s were, what, noble and altruistic? Sounds a bit like you’ve been brainwashed. Her desire for kids was more important to her than your relationship?

I wouldn’t necessarily say that, but that’s what you could say if you wanted to start throwing around big sweeping statements about people you’ve never met.

I have a very nice shot of yunki Jr standing proudly next to his first poo in a potty if you’d like me to send it over Grum..?

🙂

As someone said above – I would think it pretty dickish of me to boast to my friends with kids about how many holidays I can afford and how awesome it is to be able to go away for the weekend without arranging childcare, yet the reverse seems to be perfectly socially acceptable.

I used to hear a few times about parents splitting up when a child was circa 2yrs old. You can see why, yes theres the ‘relationship/elastoplast’ but then theres its just drained two people too much. I wonder how many men (and women) with young children are having an affair on the side as a form of escapism?

I agree with all of that Grum, I don’t see that being a parent makes anyone more enlightened or well rounded. I also don’t see not having kids as selfish. It’s a personal choice (and a pretty basic human right IMO).
I just delete those who go on and on and on about their kids on FB.

Sorry to have a difference of opinion, I know this is the internet and everyone is supposed to have the same views

😆

So whatever your pre-conceptions, ignore them because they’re probably wrong.

Did I mention how much this arrogant this approach comes across as?!

I was a pretty reluctant dad (I reckon many are

I’m not a reluctant potential dad. I’m not going to be a dad. I have no interest.

deny my partner something that was incredibly important to her

I also wouldn’t deny my partner this. It would end the relationship and it would have to be with someone else, I’m not in control of her life. If you’ve got that far into a relationship without having a sensible conversation that you feel obligated to have children with someone to make them happy, then we lead very different lives.

it’s like a switch goes off in your head that makes all the bad stuff disappear

Not much bad stuff going on in my head.

It’s basically a leap of faith, and one that very few regret.

Anecdotal evidence doesn’t back this up for me.

I just don’t understand the social acceptance of those who’ve had kids preaching to those that have chosen not too. Each to their own from my side.

Cant say as I care either way whether folks have kids or not.

There’s only one issue I have, and that’s folks with kids thinking I’m interested in their kids.

No, I’m not interested. Your baby smells worse than my bum after too many beers and is so ugly I can only assume it fell out of the ugly tree hitting every branch on the way down in the ugliest way possible. Oh dear god and the slobber and snot! Not that it ends with the smell and slime of course. Get a little bit older and they start talking, asking questions, generally being bloody irritating and making noise. Once they get through that it’s into the teens and straight back into the smell and slime stage. Except now it’s vileness with intent.

Aside from that, meh.

*thinks seriously about changing FB profile picture*

*decides not to bother as grum has probably already hidden me anyway*

🙂

Roight…just skimmed through the thread. Seems the “withouts” are being more tetchy than the “withs”. I’ll have to have a think about why that may be. 😐

Aside from that, meh.

I’ve met more annoying, ugly, badly behaved grown up adults than kids.

WHO THE **** ARE YOU CALLING TETCHY?

🙂

😆

A few have alluded to the ‘change’ that happens when you become a parent and I can only back that up with my own experience. For me it was like a switch being thrown and there, at the birth, I became a dad. And everything changed. My feelings about my life, what I wanted to do etc. All the things I feared before the birth happened – Holidays became rare.. social life become pretty none existent.. money was rare to none existent.. sleep was a luxury for years.. I rode bikes a lot less.

But the point is that because of that bloody switch that was thrown at the birth I really didn’t care. I saw that my life had improved.

But.. I also see how that story can really wind up the people who haven’t experienced it, so believe me when I say that I’m not putting that story forward in the context of ‘You have no idea what you are missing’ kind of way. As some have said, that’s bloody arrogant and quite annoying to those that choose to not have kids.

I also know what I missed. A social life.. money.. sleep.. I had to engineer a job involving bikes in order to get to ride them 😉

The point I think I’m trying to make is that if you don’t want to miss out on all that good stuff in life (I mean the social, money, bikes and stuff) then plan not to have kids. But don’t be afraid that you will live your life in regret if you do have kids because if, like me and some others on here have said, you do end up as a dad then you will probably change and the loss of those things won’t feel as bad as you think it will because being a parent does have its compensations.

Those of us with kids bloody well DO miss out on riding bikes, staying up late, having sex when we feel like it and as loudly as we like, randomly saying, ‘**** it lets go to the pub right now’, going on holiday when it’s cheap.. It’s just our lives took a different fork when kids happened and neither fork (kids or no kids) has any moral right to preach to the other. They are just different paths and I reckon I would be equally happy on either one of them.

I’ve met more annoying, ugly, badly behaved grown up adults than kids.

Imagine how annoying and badly behaved they were when they were kids then. 😉

Edit: nice post Mark.

Wow! Didn’t expect such vitriolic response to something which was a simple explanation of *my* experience of having kids, nothing else.

You guys need to lighten up and stop being so bloody defensive!

I’ve met more annoying, ugly, badly behaved grown up adults than kids.

Indeed, Ive met(and probably am one) a few myself. What I havent met is one with an accompanying parent telling me how wonderful they are.

Shameless plug for a friend who has written a parenting book;

http://www.commandodad.com/index.php

Mods; Please delete if this isn’t appropriate. He is a good chap and has donated a signed copy for a charity auction in aid of the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit at Southmead Hospital.

You guys need to lighten up and stop being so bloody defensive!

In fairness, this is a massive choice(accident) either way in anyones life. It’s always going to be lively.

Imagine how annoying and badly behaved they were when they were kids then.

Obvious assumption is obvious.

Agree wholeheartedly with Grumpy Mark..

There’s research to show that the change is physiological as well as psychological IIRC..

sorry non-breeders but them’s the breaks..

Our last holiday was September 2009.

I just don’t understand the social acceptance of those who’ve had kids preaching to those that have chosen not too. Each to their own from my side.

I’ve never seen any parents preaching to people who don’t have kids. Probably because most parents realise how big a decision it is as they’ve been through it themselves and so leave people to make their own mind up. Yes, some parents can be a bit in your face with it (facebook etc), but what do you expect? Do you expect your parent friends and acquaintances never to talk about their kids in your presence?

From my point of view I can never understand the snobbishness, sneering and outright hostility some people show whenever the subject of kids is mentioned (this thread is a great example).

I reckon the non-breeders need to seriously think about the folk they’re hanging out with. Might be best to have non-breeder coffee mornings where you can go on endlessly about your snowboarding holidays, show one another photos and go “wow, look at that snow-covered mountain/beach/river/skyscraper (delete as appropriate)”, “so, what car you driving these days”, “isn’t it wonderful to be able to have expensive vases without the kids knocking them over” etc. 🙂

Since having kids we’ve adapted our lifestyles and still find we can do most of the stuff we used to do, plus they are ace little mates to be daft with after a day stuck in the office with dullards.

However, the one thing I do struggle with a bit is being tied to fixed school holidays (espensive, crowded, not at best times). The government is cracking down on taking kids out of school (which I can understand), but not doing anything to help, like staggering the term dates around the country, like they do in France.