Home › Forums › Bike Forum › No helmets – Why? Are they mad?
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No helmets – Why? Are they mad?
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molgripsFree Member
Intoxication through alcohol actually impairs your ability to calculate risk so that’s a pretty poor analogy.
I meant those three things were unrelated. People used to not wear seatbelts and also leave kids unprotected without alcohol.
philconsequenceFree MemberPeople used to not wear seatbelts and also leave kids unprotected without alcohol.
😯
always, always make sure kids wear condoms around alcohol!
RepackRiderFree Member
2retro4u
Marin County, CaliIf its good enough for charlie kelly…….
You wouldn’t ride that POS bike now just because I did then. I wear a helmet now.
TandemJeremyFree Memberrepack rider – the recent TV bit with the guy who was building his dream bike you didn’t wear helmets?
polyFree Member[TJ, I agree with much of what you have to say about helmets, and having made an informed decision about the various risks and benefits as well as my lack of ability usually elect to put a lump of polystyrene on my bonce before I head out, but I don’t judge anyone who choses not to.
A point you’ve not made here (as far as I can see) but have in the past is that safety equipment can make you feel safer encouraging to you to take higher risks. I know lots of people who would argue that with you – but this is a well known phenomenon in a number of areas. At its simplest level I can usually prove the principle by asking if you would cycle down the steps at the end of my street wearing a helmet (about a dozen concrete steps – fairly wide and reasonably steep) most people here would do them with minimal thought. Now take your helmet off and do the same… most people at least hesitate before saying they would do it. Proving to me the helmet made them feel safer (if you fall off you might get a head injury – but limb damage is probably more likely).
So, here’s my gripe:
TandemJeremy – Member
Kids. Hmmmmmmmmmm Several points
Are they capable of making a rational assessment ( gillick competence)
Young kids skulls are softer, some kids skills are crap, some take lots of risks.I think its recognised morally and legally that adults can and must make decisions for kids in some circumstances.
Just make sure that their helmets fit and are done up properly.
As an aside – how many of you helmet evangelists wear them properly – less than half even of serious mtbers IME Most have the straps loose
Bearing in mind the above principle – by putting helmets on kids are we encouraging children to ride more dangerously (or the average parent to pay less concern to their riding – because they have a helmet on)? We started off with the wear it all the time stance for our kids because that is what society seemed to expect, however this year we’ve taken the view, in common with many of the immediate neighbours, that when in a very localised (almost traffic free) area where our kids ride by themselves the risks are minimal, the kids put their helmets on themselves which means they are probably not tight enough, and then take them off / drop / damage too – which all leads to a false sense of security. In reality half the time they are travelling at less than running speed.
Whilst I am convinced I am making the right decision I feel “peer pressure” from “society” that we are exposing our kids to unreasonable risk. Bearing in mind that almost everyone on here over the age of thirty wouldn’t have owned a cycle helmet before they were 12 the risks are not as high as may be implied. Yes there is a tiny risk of a serious head injury, but there’s also a risk they’ll grow up having no idea what fun is or so risk averse that they post threads on STW in 15 years time declaring everyone else stupid for not religiously doing as “society” expects…
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The “building site” question is not as irrelevant as it first sounds. Its not uncommon for “hard hat zones” to be declared in areas where the risk of falling objects is minimal (or almost impossible). Whilst one school of thought says – just make them wear them all the time then they don’t need to think about it – there is an alternative viewpoints which says encourage people to think about what they are doing and perhaps you’ll reduce the risk of falling objects rather than depending on PPE.
TandemJeremyFree MemberPoly – All I said was in some situations parents can and should make decisions for children and IF you are going to insist on helmets make sure they are fitted and fastened properly.
People do have little idea of rational risk assessment tho
bigjimFull MemberWow, didn’t realise there was such an anti-helmet brigade here!
I used to not wear my helmet years ago when doing trials stuff around town, probably down to vanity, which is probably the real reason for most anti-helmet arguments at the end of the day. Once spent 3 days being sick from concussion when I stopped, tried to put foot out, something got caught on drivetrain, fell over and head slapped into the ground. Wasn’t even moving.
Another time I was going up a fairly routine climb in the granny ring and couldn’t get foot out of toeclips (yes that long ago) when I lost traction, fell sideways, down a 10ft rockface the path edged onto and landed with helmet stuck between the rockface and a tree stump. Without my helmet I would have at least lost a lot of my scalp and I’m pretty sure would have shattered my skull on the rock at the bottom.
More recently I was in an accident with a 4×4 on the way to work and without the helmet I probably wouldnt be here, or at the very least would not have much scalp and would have had terrible bruising/cuts and concussion.
Just not worth not wearing one for me.
cynic-alFree Membersorry but those in crashes who say “I’d be dead without the helmet” rarely have the knowledge etc to state that with any authority-and are of course less than objective.
GWFree MemberI can say with authority I’d be dead sweaty and uncomfortable with one. 😉
iamhimsoiamFree MemberIt’s a free country.
Does it affect you, no.
So what’s the problem.
😉polyFree MemberTandemJeremy – Member
Poly – All I said was in some situations parents can and should make decisions for children and IF you are going to insist on helmets make sure they are fitted and fastened properly.
Yeah OK I see thats what you were getting at now. I read it the first time with the emphasis slightly different – implying that it all changed as soon as it was a kid.bigjim – Member
Wow, didn’t realise there was such an anti-helmet brigade here! don’t think that is the case at all – there is a significant don’t judge someone because they’ve made a different decision to the “majority” especially if the majority have made their decision with probably scant regard for the true risk and likely risk reduction. Most of the people you think are “anti helmet” probably do wear a helmet some of the time.
dekadanseFree MemberI’ve now worked trying to plan services and support for people with acquired brain injuries (ABI) for over 10 years. ABI can have many causes, perhaps 40%-50% (according to my stats) being the result of trauma (blow to the head).During this time, I’ve worked with 11 people whose ABIs came as a result of coming off a bike. Some were roadies/townies (a certain city’s bus service seems particularly liable here) but others were MTB riders.
Now TJ (who, bless him, seems a particularly sophisticated helmet denier) might argue that these people might have had their ABIs anyway, or might have experienced different sorts of brain injuries (I take the diffuse axonal point to some extent, but I think the counter-arguement is that the helmet should reduce the severity of impact and thus the effect of reverberation of the brain inside the skull – I know that’s what it felt like for me when I came off a bridge and headbutted an earthen bank!) I’m not convinced that we do more bonkers things just because we wear a lid. My ‘sophisticated risk assessment’ – ha! – is more concerned with my fingers, hands, elbows and knees, because experience tells me that these are what I have damaged when I’ve had offs.
But at the end of it all lies the question – why ever not wear a helmet? Vanity? Personal freedom? Spurious science? Most of us take the view that if there’s a chance a hat will save us from some kind of TBI/ABI, then why not wear one? It’s a small price to pay. And for those who take the personal liberty angle, sure, on your own head be it (literally), but be aware that in doing this, because you live in society rather than some individual void, you send a message to others that having a lid on is not really necessary……..and (speaking personally) that is what really pisses me off.
And the beat goes on………
nickcFull MemberWow, didn’t realise there was such an anti-helmet brigade here!
There isn’t.
What there is is a group of people (myself included) who suggest that sometimes you don’t need to wear a helmet, and sometimes there are times when it’s better to wear one.
OK?
TandemJeremyFree Memberdekadanse
I am not a helmet denier. I wear one when appropriate,
Why not wear one – its much more pleasant to ride without them. They are uncomfortable and sweaty
there are two arguments that folk get muddled up[
1) cycling is safe. the odds on getting a brain injury are very low indeed. How many of the people you have looked after got their brain injuries when drunk?
2) cycles helmets offer very little protection against serious brain injury and indeed may exacerbate serious brain injuryBoth these things are well supported by research.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=46882)
TandemJeremyFree Memberbut be aware that in doing this, because you live in society rather than some individual void, you send a message to others that having a lid on is not really necessary…..
Good – thats exactly the message we should be sending out
lobby_dosserFree Memberffs why are some on here so bothered what others do or don’t? I agree with TJ. The higher the risk, use more protection.
bigjimFull Membersorry but those in crashes who say “I’d be dead without the helmet” rarely have the knowledge etc to state that with any authority-and are of course less than objective.
well free to recreate my experiences but without a helmet and tell me how you feel afterwards, but I don’t think you would be able to 😉
In my own experience the idea that you should wear a helmet only when doing ‘extreme’ things like downhilling and jumping doesn’t stand, because its always been silly things like falling at 1mph that have resulted in me smashing my bonce. Apart from the car incident, I’ve never hit my head in 18 years of mountain biking from coming off any faster than 2mph :lol:, but I’m not going to interpret that as meaning I can safely ride without a helmet.
Horses for courses though, and I’m pretty sure that anyone that does have a crash resulting in head hitting something, will wear a helmet next time.
aracerFree MemberI’ve now worked trying to plan services and support for people with acquired brain injuries (ABI) for over 10 years. ABI can have many causes, perhaps 40%-50% (according to my stats) being the result of trauma (blow to the head).During this time, I’ve worked with 11 people whose ABIs came as a result of coming off a bike.
10 years and only 11 cyclists with head injuries? I’m assuming you work with rather more than 1 person a year, in which case are you also bothered that all those other people with head injuries weren’t wearing helmets?
DezBFree MemberI don’t give a toss what other people do, but I wear a helmet on the road. Two weeks when I crashed and wrecked my road bike, I ended up with a hole in my elbow, a gashed knee and a sore shoulder. I hit my head on something similar to this:
and my nut was fine. Without a helmet, at the very minimum, it would’ve bloody hurt.
rubberneckFree Memberheadbuts wall with no helmet,,,,,, feels pain
headbuts wall with helmet on,,,,,, doesnt feel as much pain.😕
toys19Free Memberrubberneck – Member
headbuts wall with no helmet,,,,,, feels pain
headbuts wall with helmet on,,,,,, doesnt feel as much pain.Bingo. My sentiments exactly.
mimi123Free Membertandemjeremy
there is something missing from your picture! a helmet! or two!
Russell96Full MemberAs I get older I’ve mellowed to the fact that people choose not to wear a helmet, it means theres more chance of healthy vigorous organs available for transplant.
Jokes aside what annoys me is the number of people who choose to wear a helmet and then don’t have a **** clue/have had crap advice/wear one as a jaunty fashion accessory. As an example the helmet that is that small that it’s more than about an inch above the eyebrow, the straps that might as well not be done up etc..
Annoying to the point where you have that classic MBR side panel on a page that asks people a few questions like what will their next purchase be? Usual answer being the 10/10 Spesh costing thousands of quid rather than a HELMET THAT FITS YOU CORRECTLY…
aracerFree Memberheadbuts wall with no helmet,,,,,, feels pain
headbuts wall with helmet on,,,,,, doesnt feel as much pain.Ah, but if you hadn’t owned a helmet you wouldn’t have been headbutting the wall in the first place, so you’d have felt no pain at all.
TandemJeremyFree MemberI have done some work with people with head injuries as well. I have seen a couple of serious cycle head injuries, a couple of moderate ones. I have seen far more that were caused by falling when drunk ,that were caused by accidents at home and that happened when in cars as well.
cycling is safe.
faintFree MemberI’ve just headbutted a lamppost, so I’m glad I was wearing a helmet.
Still not sure how I managed to come off but sliding towards the lamp post just managed to turn my head in time to stop me going full frontal into it.TandemJeremyFree Memberisn’t it noticeable how its the habitual helmet wearers that hit their heads?
Helmets are dangerous kids – they make you crash and hit your head. Teh only time I have hit my head I was wearing a helmet
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.This has as much logic as many of the pro helmet stances on hereInternationalRichardFree MemberSome silly arguements trying to compare extremities to the head. Having an accident with limbs is painfull but (& that’s a big but) it won’t kill you. A bad head injury could. …. Might not, granted.
I personally use one but not often enough. I fell off my bike & had some knee pads I’m my rucksack. Turns out I’d fractured my knee, cursing my stupidity, I left in a wheel chair. Coming back from Cannock, great day out but stripped off the protection thinking ‘no danger here, I’ll leave my stuff off’ which is exactly what caused my accident. My mistake cost me mobility, I won’t be making the same mistake with my head.
I need to look after it, and my Ginger hair …. Lol
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