Following Newsnight? I find myself involuntarily saying “good point” every time Nandy speaks, even when I disagree with her. She has a delivery above and beyond the others, doesn’t she. Starmer seems like he is avoiding saying anything firm… while trying to sound firm. “Vague but claiming to be clear”… I’d like to think the public have had enough of that. Thornberry is here to try and claim/keep her foreign policy brief, isn’t she. Long Bailey is much better at this TV stuff than Corbyn ever was.

Good luck labour,  your #$*¥₩#. I’ve voted for every party over the last 20 years. But the opposition are currently unelectable. Iraq was the point I left labour (I’m not a party faithful fanatic of any party, that’s just ridiculous FFS). Enjoy the ride. Hope they get their shit together by 2027/31. Good luck with that at  this rate. Argue amongst your selves.

Is that a response to the Newsnight debate, or just a random cathartic out pouring? These are four people coming across (to me) as if they would be better ministers than any current minister. I wish one of them was more obviously PM material… perhaps that will happen in time.

Yes, a random out pouring. But if ” the legal age of consent is 16″ is your judgement  of a worthy politician (SNP granted) carry on. 2031 is a pipe dream ( no pun intended)

No they’re not thankfully, it’s a bit less ‘white is right’ in tod.

The ethnic diversity of Todmorden Town Council says you are talking tripe. Compare and contrast with elected members for Burnley and Blackburn

The trouble is that the heroic working class in Burnley and Blackburn still don’t see climate change as a problem. They’re more bothered about the pakistanis taking over the borough, and how they’d rather eat chips fried in beef dripping out of old newspapers just like the good ol’ days.

So members of Burnley and Blackburn’s working class are not from the BAME community?

It’s a good job you have a chip on both shoulders otherwise you wouldn’t be able to walk in a straight line.

Having attended one of the leadership hustings and just having watched the Newsnight hustings there appears to be a lot more commonality between the four of them than between the various factions of Labour member groups as well as between the key unions and affiliated organisations, and indeed between various commentators on here. Anyway my thoughts on each of the candidates:

Emily Thornberry: passionate and feisty at both the hustings. Having more front/shadow front bench experience that all others, I am not quite sure what her vision is for her leadership of the party, and I don’t think she understands the issues in the disaffected North and Midlands, plus her gobbinness does have a tendency to lead to ‘foot in the mouth’ moments hence probably why she has still not received sufficient nominations for the next stage of this interminable process. Having said that I think she would make a strong member of the shadow cabinet, maybe Shadow Foreign Secretary.

Keir Starmer: At the hustings I attended I was disappointed by Starmer’s performance – he came across a bit flat and lacking the energy and passion of the other 3. This of course may have been due to the sad situation with his mother-in-law. He seemed better tonight but still came across a bit as a ‘man in a grey suit’ and despite his obvious gravitas from his high profile legal career I’m not sure he has the charisma which a successful leader needs, Blair being a prime example. His collaborative approach to trying to unite all elements of the party seems to have failed so far as he polled fairly badly at my CLP nomination meeting despite being supported by the local MP. He has the leadership and management experience in a large bureaucratic organisation but will this translate to generating excitement and support from previous and potential Labour voters? I am still unsure.

Lisa Nandy: IMO was the best and most convincing performer at both the hustings I attended and the Newsnight hustings. She has demonstrated the most comprehensive understanding of the issues the Labour Party has failed to address over the last decade and the deprived communities it has ignored whilst focussing on appealing to middle-class voters in metropolitan areas. She has some realistic policy ideas which will appeal to current, lost and new Labour voters. Of the 4, I think she has the most charisma and will appeal to perhaps a wider demographic than the others particularly in the Midlands and North, and crucially is probably the one most likely to unite the various disparate parts of the party. At my CLP nomination meeting she received all bar 4 of the second preference votes (RLB was nominated but only won by 8 votes). My question would be has she the experience and gravitas to transform the party and at the same time lead an active opposition to the shower of self-serving sh*ts who claim to the the Government.

Rebecca Long-Bailey: At the local hustings she came over as quite cold and calculated – no warmth and no smile, and was espoused more of her left wing ideology. On Newsnight she came over as a warmer, more thoughtful person and IMO tried to play a more nuanced neutral game leaving some of the more contentious, and possibly unpopular, policies in the locker. There is still a certain ‘chippiness’ about her that I think will put off many of those voters who don’t take an active interest in politics – a bit like Neil Kinnock. I will not be voting for her, but in any successful team you need a range of skills and experience and I think a prominent shadow cabinet position where she can use her firebrand aggression effectively, maybe as shadow Home Secretary – she will be the Roy Keane of team, constantly kicking her opposite number.

Might have said this before maybe it is Starmers job to put the house in order then look for a Nandy for 2027

But if ” the legal age of consent is 16″ is your judgement of a worthy politician (SNP granted) carry on

I never said worthy, I was only dispelling the notion that his actions had any criminality attached. As you say though, it has nothing to do with Labour so I’m not sure what your point is.

Might have said this before maybe it is Starmers job to put the house in order then look for a Nandy for 2027

Whoever ends up with the poison chalice is going to need to embark on a complete overhaul of the party’s structure. The gang of idealogical Corbynite incompetents presently squatting at the top of the party need to be dispensed with completely, and Lansman and Momentum need putting back in their box. The lot of them hoofed out. And they’re not going to go without a fight. In fact, its going to have to make Blairs ‘Clause 4’ moment look like a minor administrative matter

RLB has zero desire to do this. She gave them ten out of ten after all. She’s happy with the status quo, even though that simply means permanent opposition and the continued descent into political irrelevance as a self-righteous, sanctimonious but impotent virtue-signalling protest group.

I don’t think Kier Starmer or Emily Thornberry have the real desire or the stomach for it either. They’re more for tinkering at the edges. That’s only going to deliver a prolonged period of opposition, though probably not the same scale of a drubbing that RLB would surely deliver. She’ll certainly be ‘Continuity Corbyn’ on that score.

Lisa Nandy seems to fully grasp what needs to happen. She’s been telling the party hierarchy what it doesn’t want to hear for years now, despite being studiously ignored. And she’s actually been coming up with concrete proposals for what needs to happen. She’s the only one who really seems to ‘get it’.

Looking at the present shambolic state of the party, it’s going to be a long, long road back to being a serious potential party of government. And it’s going to be brutal. It’ll have to be Kinnock and Militant all over again. The party needs to completely jettison the electorally toxic Corbyn legacy and completely re-invent itself in a form that voters don’t find utterly repellent, which is clearly the case at the moment.

I’ve voted for every party over the last 20 years.

Are you one of those who likes to be on the winning side? I bet you get a nice warm feeling after every election day knowing that you’re right. Good for you.

And she’s actually been coming up with concrete proposals for what needs to happen.

Party funding for ferret breeders and pigeon fanciers? Every town to hold a government funded black pudding festival?

re you one of those who likes to be on the winning side? I bet you get a nice warm feeling after every election day knowing that you’re right. Good for you.

It’s called pragmatism Daz. It’s the way the majority of people vote at general elections. As has just been brutally demonstrated to the labour party

Party funding for ferret breeders and pigeon fanciers? Every town to hold a government funded black pudding festival?

Yes, thats exactly what she’s proposing Daz. Re-opening the pits too, so that we can all become miners and then have a wash in a tin bath in’t back yard while our whippets look on.

Seriously mate… if you so despise this part of the world and everyone in it, why not just move to Sweden? 😉

if you so despise this part of the world and everyone in it

I have a long history with northern smalltown/vllage culture. As an unruly long-haired crusty teenager growing up in a northumbrian ex-mining village I was frogmarched to the working men’s social club by my dad on my 18th birthday to join up because it was ‘tradition’, and was promptly told by the committe chairman that I should ‘smarten’ myself up. I went there for a drink with my dad about 10 years ago. Sitting in the men-only bar I had to listen to the local mouthpiece holding court with his hangers on (probably the same ones from school) ranting about sending all the **** back because they were all terrorists. The only other times I ever set foot in the place was for weddings or funerals, and my dad paid ‘my dues’ right up to the point it was closed after the treasurer embezzled 100k and it went bankrupt.

We had two shops in our village, one was called the ****, the other the darkies (even though they were indian hindus). The **** shop closed but the darkies is still going strong and amazingly is still called that. Things have moved on a bit though, the kids smoke weed instead of sniffing glue out of carrier bags. But the local lynch mob is still going strong, not too long ago they beat the shit out of some bloke and put him in a coma because his toerag son had been caught robbing someone, and burnt down the house of the local peado ex-copper who got sent down for dodgy photos on his computer.

And don’t even get me started on how they talk about and treat women. Listening to pissed up a***holes shout ‘get your t*** oot!’ across a crowded pub to random women is always a joy. And then there was the time they wanted to beat the shit out of one of my mates for the cardinal crime of having dreadlocks. So yeah, I saw the worst of it, but even today this sort of thing isn’t untypical in the hallowed places the labour party are now supposed to be ‘listening’ to. If that makes me a snob then so be it.

Actually as a couterpoint to the above, one place where you will find working class culture which isn’t based wholly on racism and sexism is Liverpool. Trouble is they’re all rabid Corbyn supporting 6th formers there, with their pie in the sky idealism and old-fashioned sense of solidarity. If we’re going to listen to working class people that’s where we should start, but I doubt the likes of Lisa Nandy are too interested in that.

So the whole of the North of England, with the exception of Liverpool, is basically a Viz storyline?

I watched Newsnight last night and pretty much agree with the consensus. I thought they all performed very well and all did what they needed to do. I’d almost forgotten how sane, credible politicians talk and behave.

RLB was ‘least good’ IMHO and would be disasterous for the party because “Socialist Campaign Group”, but is still streets ahead of Corbyn in every possible way and hasn’t got 40 years of baggage to explain away.

I expected Starmer and Thornbury to perform well, but I thought Nandy was (unexpectedly) a terrific communicator.

I had a strong preference for Starmer but after last night I think Nandy would be just as good and Thornberry would do a good job too [1]. I’m assuming Nandy, Thornberry and Starmer will all kick Momentum into touch and take the party back towards centerist voters. That assumptiom might be wrong.

A good night for all four candidates and a good night for Labour. Makes me wonder what the hell the Corbynista were thinking, he was just utterly useless, why couldn’t they see that?

[1] Which is no suprise – Labour have been putting her up for interviews at crucial times for 5 years now, they do that for a reason.

A good night for all four candidates and a good night for Labour. Makes me wonder what the hell the Corbynista were thinking, he was just utterly useless, why couldn’t they see that?

Corbyn and his movement was useful at the start as it brought back the Labour polices and thinking. It got me back into Labour.
Once that was done they should have got shot of him and put someone in place who could actually lead. The fact he was still there got me back out of Labour again. Go Green party!

So the whole of the North of England, with the exception of Liverpool, is basically a Viz storyline?

Take away the big cities, and the satellite towns which have been gentrified (like the ones we live in), it’s not too far off the mark. I could take you to many places where everything I’ve described above has barely changed.

Listen to yesterdays Stephen Sackur BBC Hardtalk interview with Len McClusky. If you want to hear utter and complete delusion then this takes some beating.

Len McCluskey: What’s the future of the UK Labour Party?

He’s still, like a lot of the Corbyn faithful, absolutely in denial about what has just happened. If idiots like him retain their influence within the party, and continue to take it in their 70’s retro direction then the last electoral kicking is going to look mild compared to the ones that await them. Who’s apparently the leader will make little difference

He’s still, like a lot of the Corbyn faithful, absolutely in denial about what has just happened. If idiots like him retain their influence within the party, and continue to take it in their 70’s retro direction then the last electoral kicking is going to look mild compared to the ones that await them. Who’s apparently the leader will make little difference

Agree, that kind of thing is going to take a lot of reversing. Also under Corbyn the “Socialist Campaign Group” party within a party has gone from a “withering on the vine” handful to a significant percentage of MPs. That’s a lot of internal opposition.

I still think there’s much to be optimistic about. The members got Labour into the mess in 2015 and it looks as though the members might get it out in 2020. At least there’s a chance.

Quite why the process is taking so long is beyond me. I’d prefer Lisa Nandy but could live with Starmer or Thornberry, unfortunately I think RLB would be mauled by the Murdoch press

Not sure why Rebecca Long-Bailey deserves to be referred to by her initials and not Emily Thornberry….they both have the same number of syllables and I like Thornberrys initials!

As a bonus, she fits in a basket on a bike, thus saving greatly on ministerial travel costs.

It’s called pragmatism Daz.

Quite right: your desire to kill brown people won’t be achieved unless you’re in power.

Evening comrade.

Taking a well-earned break from plotting the revolution in the common room? Everything on course for 2060?

Thanks for your contribution. As thoughtful and insightful as ever

Thanks for your contribution. As thoughtful and insightful as ever

You’re welcome. How is the transphobia working out?

I don’t prioritise comrade. I’m an equal opportunities facist bully boy.

I don’t prioritise comrade. I’m an equal opportunities facist bully boy.

That’s not true: you pretend to care about Jews.

Ssssssshhhh. Don’t tell anyone about that. It’ll undermine my credentials at the nazi rallies I go to.

Without those I’d have no social life

Without those I’d have no social life

You could try mouthing off here.

Oh, wait.

Thornberry is out

Thornberry is a lesbian?

Nandy doubles down on annoying scottish voters ” the snp should not be represented in UK wide debates” the third largest party in the UK should be excluded? the elected representatives of 9% of the population

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18209133.labour-mp-lisa-nandy-claims-snp-excluded-uk-wide-debates/

The quote from her is

“They wanna have a UK-wide debate, fine, they’re not in it. They wanna have a Scottish debate, great, we’ll put up our leader thank you, and you can debate with them.”

” the snp should not be represented in UK wide debates” the third largest party in the UK should be excluded? the elected representatives of 9% of the population

The point is that those elected representatives to a assembly that represents only 9% of the UK population are being given a national stage. They only talk about 9% of the population. The Westminster model needs it’s elected representatives to both talk local and 100% of UK. SNP MSPs don’t do that.

Regardless of the nuances of her point she’s going to get nothing from The National, they’ll flame her for eating the Aldi version of Tunnocks teacakes if they could get the picture.

Regardless of the nuances of her point she’s going to get nothing from The National, they’ll flame her for eating the Aldi version of Tunnocks teacakes if they could get the picture.

Point of order: I’m pretty sure Tunnocks came out supporting “No” in 2014 so your scenario is unlikely 🙂

If the SNP leadership is to be excluded from Party Leader debates then those debates should not be broadcast in Scotland. That solves that problem.

The point is that those elected representatives to a assembly that represents only 9% of the UK population are being given a national stage. They only talk about 9% of the population.

Wrong – decisions taken in England / Westminster affect Scotland both via reserved matters and budgetary issues.

What about parties that have no representation in Scotland – should they be involved in UK wide debates?

Finally – the SNP are the third largest party in Westminster – surely its important to know how they will vote in Westminster?

Looks like labour are lining up the dream team to barnstorm the next general election

‘Becky’ as leader, Richard Burgon as deputy and Jezza as foreign Secretary

Well at least he’d get a warm welcome in Moscow and Tehran

Does anyone know whats happening with the Labour leadership contest? I take it they’ve just sort of given up on it?

Odds about three days ago:

K Starmer is 1/8 for.
R Bong-Lady is 7/1 against.
L Nandy is 8/1 against.

Can’t fathom RBL wanting the electoral disaster area that is Corbyn to be front and centre of her shadow cabinet. You’d have thought hitting your head against the wall twice already would have shown it hurts.

The fact that any of them are even talking about it as a possibility really does illustrate the alternative dimension they’re all presently inhabiting. Totally in denial and detached from reality.

I’m presuming Kier and Lisa have been relatively quiet is that they’ve tired of this ridiculous charade of pretending that the manifesto was great, Jezza was great and it was just the electorates fault for getting it wrong

The odds are interesting. I’ve put a fiver on RLB at 7/1 as thats just the kind of stupidity that the labour party membership would indulge itself in

fiver on RLB at 7/1 as thats just the kind of stupidity that the labour party membership would indulge itself in

Bollocks now we know where the smart money’s going…

(You have to look at the very particular electorate – of whom I’m a member – the candidates are trying to appeal to right now, to get an handle on what they’re saying.)