New bike : pace rc429 or Cotic Solaris, or ?

Hi y’all

So basically everything is in the title
I’m looking for a new hardtail frame to replace my old 26 steel frame which was super playful but now spending 6 months per year in the alps or other mountains, the geometry was a bit too much old school and well, standards changed a lot.
I would love to get a steel frame, modern geo, 29 wheels
i’ll use it to tackle harsh and very steep stuff as well as for xc with really tight corners between the trees, i love techy stuff, but I’m also often in rather flat country.
i also use my bike to do « bikepacking » and shreddpacking stuff, europe and remote mountainous places, all day long with plenty of push and carry so something rather lightweight would be nice, but I’m absolutely not considering alu and carbon.
Now i do have a full sus old flaremax (gen 2) that i absolutely love for most of the mountain stuff but i love hardtail and want my new bike to be able to do all that too, because well, i can’t always carry two bikes.
Plenty of options but i would like something available in europe, 1400 pounds budget max, rack mounts and frame mounts, lightweight, long low slack, but still precise, agile, nimble and lively, the five legged sheep.
So i basically sort the choice out, now it’s between the new solaris or the new pace rc429.
Solarismax has plenty of proven good reviews, i love cotic approach and know they have awesome customer service, the new solaris seems a little bit more xc and lighter than the previous ones which is perfect to me, on the other hand the rc429 is cheaper, probably heavier, no reviews at all, or just the Kesteven one which i don’t find so helpful nor exhaustive.
The pace in L is basically almost the same geo as the solaris in C3.
I’m 6 feet tall, 86 inseam, rather normal arms, heading for a L at pace or hesitating between a C3 and C4 at cotic, shorter and smaller frame being more playful and agile but i still don’t want to feel cramped on big trips.
Anyone here got the opportunity to try out both frames and could help me with this by any chance ?
that’d be super helpful, i live in France currently so no way i could demo them unfortunately.
thanks a lot !

A slack, low travel hard tail sounds very much like a Pipedream Sirius.

I have a Fairlight Holt which I really love, but I’ve got it setup rigid and I think it’s a bit less LLS than all those you’ve listed.

Based on my experiences of how helpful they are to deal with I’d take the Cotic over the Pace every time.

Thanks, i love the look and details on the holt but unfortunately it has a t47 bb, and 27.2mm saddle tube, as well as maybe a bit too “conservative” geo, that’s too bad because otherwise it looks absolutely splendid and perfect.

I’ve heard cotic were fantastic to deal with indeed, that’s a fair good point although i’d love to know how these two bikes behave compared to each other

Ps : the Pipedream sirius looks also super nice but no mounts, and probably perfect as an all mountain hardtail, less as a do it all not too boring on the flat as it sounds

In the interest of fairness, I’ve had bikes from both and your not giving anything up on the customer service side by going with Pace over Cotic.

Thanks, fair to say it indeed, although i wasn’t expecting any bad surprise from either, both have good credits indeed.
Now it’s the ride feel and very little geo changes that will make a difference but there’s nothing to guide me on that yet unfortunately

Ps : the Pipedream sirius looks also super nice but no mounts, and probably perfect as an all mountain hardtail, less as a do it all not too boring on the flat as it sounds

Sirius S6

Just so you know the S6 version currently in preorder does have all the mounts. Definitely a good bit longer and slacker than the others though, as you say.

Oh nice ! Last time i look the S6 was only in ti version.
this one looks very promising too, smaller frame space and really low but it does have a shorter wheelbase than both the solaris and rc429, and the sliding dropouts is definitely a interesting option

Nordest Britango might suit also

Nordeste britanigo is nice but not really what I’m looking for. I have read all i could about low long slack and steel frames with short travel available around here, almost made my mind already but can’t share between the solaris and rc429 (and the sirius, but maybe a tad too much extreme to match the two others as an allrounder)
I was hoping someone could have been able to try the cotic and pace along and have a solid answer about the what the main differences are
its probably too soon yet though

I’ve long admired the Solaris and the RC429 intrigues me (although I do fear the 429 might be a bit compromised by also being a gravel bike?), but based on my experiences with my Pipedream Moxie Mx3, I wouldn’t hesitate to order a Sirius S6 steel frame. Pipedream frames just ride so well, under the new ownership customer service is now consistent again and I think the sliding dropouts are a huge bonus over the other two frames.

I’d recommend looking at the Solaris, S5 and S6 Ti reviews on bikepacking.com too – I’m no bikepacker, but their subsequent Moxie review was excellent I think summed it up accurately. These proceeded that, mostly by the same reviewer too.

Ps : the Pipedream sirius looks also super nice but no mounts, and probably perfect as an all mountain hardtail, less as a do it all not too boring on the flat as it sounds

And the S5 also had a ‘one size fits all’ headtube. For my Large or XL size, this means a proportionally low front end/stack.
I don’t know about S6.

They are now proportionally sized on the S6, although still lower than some. I reckon higher rise bars or a couple of stem spacers could be required depending on height. Be wary of the geo charts on their site though – inexplicably, the stack height figure is for 100mm fork sagged!

Damn, now i have 3 options instead of 2 !
i read very detailed reviews about the solaris and sirius but that doesn’t make the choice easier unfortunately… the solaris is clearly said to be a more allrounder though on bikepacking.com which indeed makes quality reviews. I think it should go as gravel all around -> pace rc429 -> solaris -> sirius 5/6 -> hardcore mountain bike.
the sliding dropout definitely are a big bonus for the sirius, but ride feel and body size fit can vary so much even though the geos aren’t so different…
i definitely should go on the island to test them out but that’s not gonna be possible any time soon unfortunately

By the way, on a less ride feel and more geometry wise point of view, how is the rc429 « drop bar flat bar optimised » ?
appart from the slightly relatively higher stack than some more hardcore hardtails, and the very slightly shorter reach than some, which is like basic for an all day riding on all surfaces bike and not a pure race downhill shredder, it still is quite agressive as a hardtail  and basically can be  fit into drop bar because now we have plenty of very precise and niche components isn’t it ?
front center is almost 2cm more forward than on the closest solaris size c3 also, but isn’t that more on the aggro side too ?

Based on my experiences of how helpful they are to deal with I’d take the Cotic over the Pace every time.

+1

By the way, on a less ride feel and more geometry wise point of view, how is the rc429 « drop bar flat bar optimised

Guy K’s done a pretty comprehensive review on Bike Perfect, which talks about the geometry and how it feels in both modes at some length, it does sound like it’s more of a mountain bike hardtail, that also does surprisingly well as a drop-bar bike rather than the mtb side of it being particularly compromised.

https://www.bikeperfect.com/reviews/could-paces-radical-rc429-really-be-the-one-bike-that-does-it-all-the-brand-claims-its-a-trail-xc-adventure-and-gravel-bike-all-in-one-i-put-it-to-the-test-and-the-results-really-surprised-me

andrewh
Based on my experiences of how helpful they are to deal with I’d take the Cotic over the Pace every time.

I’d totally agree, but the Solaris is now £1199 for a frame only. The Pace is £789 (still 853), the Sirius about the same (Pipedreams custom 4130 tubes)

Sorry but i don’t feel that review nor the video ones to be particularly useful and detailed

Also putting drop bar on non optimised hardtails has been done with success by plenty of people on bikepacking.com for exemple, and becoming easier with the quantity of various sized components.

Agreed that the price is an important part, but if i find the new solaris to be the absolute perfect bike i can pay a bit more for it if it means been super happy for many many years.

Mason raw looks nice too but definitely out of my price range.

I hope the new solaris gained a bit of nimbleness and springy agile playful vibe with the shaved weight which could defintely make it the top contender

But super tight turning ability is also important at the moment

The sirius has a shorter wheelbase and droupouts which could definitely help with that

Some describe it as a little bit harsh to pedal all day long, making it super responsive but maybe not ideal for super rocky easier trails on several days

I’ve no real input but the thing that’s always put me off the Pace frames is the routing of the cables on the underside of the downtube. I’m sure it’d never be an issue but my slightly irrational brain says a decent rock strike and you might have no rear brake or shifting.

I’ve got a Pace ht and it’s a lovely thing, built to a high standard and very comfortable. To be honest, I don’t think there will be a million miles between the bikes mentioned so just pick the one you think looks best! Doubt you’ll be disappointed.

I do feel your pain @heyne Despite reviews and manufacturer’s claims and geo figures, you never really know until try one yourself.

Manoeuvrability and compliance seem to be your main desire. Not sure on compliance, but both these frames have pretty long chain stays, which I wouldn’t personally want for very tight turns. I’ve always fancied a Cotic and the company seem great, but they’re generally quite long bikes.

At the risk of confusing the matter further, were either the Stanton Sherpa (or maybe even Sedona?) or Sour Crumble ever on your radar? No personal experience of these either, but they have a reputation for compliance and have shorter chain stays and wheelbases.

Just to throw another option into the mix… not too sure on the geometry but I think they have tweaked it slightly more on the LLS side since I bought mine a few years ago. I’ve taken it down DH trails and it’s way more capable than me 🙂

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[chestrockwell]

Never had problem with downtube underside routing even after years of sharp rocks flying around,  although i used a thin hdpe long plate zip tied over them for a while but changed the hoses and never bothered to put it back on, i did ripped off a few zip ties going full speed over dead branches facing forward once though but no harm was done other than that. A little bare metal is visible on my hope standard brake hose though,  but it still has many years of life left

I do love it to avoid cable rub with mybframe bags though.

chestrockwell thanks, that’s a very reasonable comment and probably the wisest advice, I’ll work on that 🙂

Thanks, that’s totally it, riding is indeed what can make the whole difference.

As for the stanton the review are quite mixed between absolutely excellent and not so good, the geo, frame look and all makes it look like a “normal” bike to me, mounts are more than welcome too and this one lacks almost all of them.

Sour indeed makes nice bikes as well as sklar, but i usually don’t like super short chainstay with slack head angle, it’s super agile and nimble on tights corner but usually make them poor climbers in technical which is what i love, and catapult rears over big rocks and roots at full speed, not so stable. Although i may be totally wrong but that’s the feeling i got from my previous experiences with friends bikes

I also hate the look of tapered head tube, i like how you can do everything you want with a 44mm one but well who cares

Ah right, I overlooked the technical climbing aspect. You’re right, longer chain stays will be required there.

In that case, I’m reverting back to my Sirius S6 suggestion – the combo of the steep seat tube and chain stays at full length makes my Moxie the best tech climber I’ve ever ridden.

I own none of the bikes above, but would regret it if I didn’t mention the matte green paintjob on this year’s Solaris is absolutely stunning, and if I didn’t already have quite a nice hardtail (a 2020 Specialized Fuse Elite frame built up with my choice of bits) I would totally have bought one in a second. It’s on my bucket list.

Cotic does chainstays that are a tad long than suits me as a shortarse and my sort of riding, but it pretty much has everything I look for in a good hardtail, and I’ve ridden and thoroughly enjoyed hardtails with longer back ends.

One other option you might want to consider is Singular, which Sam has started back up again. I have very happy memories of my old Hummingbird, and the updated Swift might be worth a look. If you can stretch to it, a custom Pegasus in Ti would also be worth chatting with him about.

Reading through this it sounds like you want to buy the Cotic.
I think you should buy the Cotic

I really like the idea of the Sirius S5/S6 (I currently have a Cotic BFeMAX and recently had the previous generation SolarisMAX and feel like it straddles what I like about both). My only slight hesitation is whether it’s “too modern” in terms of geometry and therefore the way it needs to be ridden to get the best from it.

That’s obviously very personal and a lot of articles/reviews seem to rate it for everything from bikepacking to trail riding but it’s just something that stuck out from Steve’s review on Hardtail Party. I know sometimes reviewers do just churn out generalisations but I’ve found his detail/opinions to match mine quite closely in the past on bikes he has reviewed and I’ve physically ridden so it did make me take note:

Review:

A video he also did on how riding techniques have changed/bikes have forced them to change:

Sorry but i don’t feel that review nor the video ones to be particularly useful and detailed

I dunno, I thought it was pretty clear that the gravel side of things was a little compromised tbh, but I’m not really in the market for an RC429, so I probably read it with a slightly different head on. I’d also tend to agree that the best way of knowing whether something works for you or not, is to ride it yourself.

That said, as a very happy FlareMax owner, I’d happily buy the Cotic.

Cotic does makes awesome bikes and I’m super happy with my flaremax too but the more i look at the sirius s6 the more it looks interesting and appealing to me.

If i was living full time in mountainous place i would have no hesitation on this one but I’m a bit afraid that the s6 may be disappointing and sluggish on the flat, i do plan a few big trips abroad with the bike and long flat sections are inevitable..

New solaris with sliding droupout would be absolutely awesome too.

One day I’ll make the perfect bike

Have you thought about the 18bikes No9? Good deal on a 475mm reach frame atm.

https://www.18bikes.co.uk/2021-18-bikes-9-frame.html

Ive just done a session of red and blue bike park runs on the RC429 and the bike just keeps getting better.

Have now done local Chiltern XC rides, a few days in the Derbyshire Peaks and some trail centre runs and it really is the most versatile bike ive ridden.

@andos I’d love to know more ! Do you think you’d be able to detail it a bit more precisely? about the built, ride feel, abilities, terrain and such ? I know it’s part of personal part of mystery part of the bike itself that can’t always be explained, but I’m inches away from clicking on that one or the s6 when it’ll be available.

Also are you able to measure the angles of the seat tube and head tube you have sagged as well as the crown to axle of the fork by any chance ? That one is just for curiosity but their stated geo is what appealed me at first as it was basically the geo i had made up mixing stuff from interesting bikes i had in mind(440 rear was the exact middle lenght of the sliding droupouts i was thinking of), so im wandering how close the bike is from the official geo chart, but if it could work out awesome and feel awesome too that’d be really helpful could probably be decisive if i can have the right size soon.

Bikes are so awesome and diverse nowdays…

My build is as follows: medium frame, Fox 34 step cast 120mm. Hope pro5 / fortus 30 sc wheels, 45mm stem, flat carbon 760mm bars, pnw dropper, hope Tech 3 brakes, Shimano SLX 165mm cranks, 30 chainring, 10-51 cassette. Rear Mezcal 2.35, front Barzo 2.35.  Will measure angles tomorrow.

My normal local rides are typical chiltern flint/roots/mud, but ive done a trip to the peaks and now bike park blue and red runs. Have been really surprised how it handled some of the more gnarly peaks stuff, and on the more groomed bike park stuff it flattered my skills.

Nice thanks ! Thats helpful !

Looking forward for real ligmfe angles if possible but if not don’t worry of course !

So you’d say something rather supple and forgiving when going down ?

Hows it doing for xc, flat parts and super techy almost trial stuff if you had the opportinity to meet that kind of terrain ?

And last question before i sound like asking way too much,  what would be the overall feeling of it ? Something like nimble agile and supple yet able to tackle ? Heavy but precise and good terrain feedback ?

Problem when i have choice for good stuff but no ways to try them out is that infos just get me more hesitant.

I’m gonna open a steel bike for trial rent company

Pipedream Sirius riders, how does it do on long flat parts ?

Damn i promise that with whatever bike i end with I’ll make a super detailed review to give back ! (And if someone’s interested in opening a rental trial bike company send me a message, im totally up for it 😉 )

Now I’m thinking more and more about either the sirius s6 or the rc429, the 429 sounds great although maybe stack is a bit higher than what I’m looking for, but their sagged 120mm fork is stated as 514mm, mines are around 490mm sagged (both formula 35 and reba), which would make it like 67.5° head angle, quite more conservative, and much steeper on the seat tube as well as lower on the bb…

On the other way the s6 has sliding dropouts, 65° with my forks, so geo is as stated, much lower stack, might be a bit too much long low slack for traveling abroad but a -1° / -1,5° angle set may transform it into a perfect bike for that too.

I think i’ll settle on this one when i’ll have more news about the steel version availability