Netflix: Making a Murderer (HERE BE SPOILERS!!!)

They did an online petition but the Whitehouse is powerless to do anything about it. Most recently some apparent “hot shot” lawyer from Chicago has taken up Avery’s case and yesterday declared they had new evidence on which to mount an appeal.

Well that wound me up a treat. That poor, poor kid, Brendan.

A never ending parade of slimy individuals, with captain Ken at the helm. What a ballbag.

Disgusting excuses for human beings who deserve to be behind bars. And I’m certainly not talking about Brendan and Steven.

How anyone could possibly argue they were found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, let alone from an initial presumption of innocence, I don’t know.

The most frightening thing I’ve watched in a long time.

I’m about half way through, and it’s a pretty appalling saga – for both convictions. Then I’m also conscious that we’re getting the information the producers want us to get presented in the way they want to present it. Then I think about the repeated and regular news items about the behaviour of US law enforcement people which doesn’t give one much confidence in the system there. And then I keep seeing articles presenting the other side of the Steven Avery story and things about him, that do not reflect well on him, that weren’t shown in the series. And then you wonder if they’re true or not and where the information came from and what the motive for putting it out is.

So in the end it feels just the same as an election where one lot say one thing and one lot say the opposite and you end up thinking you can’t 100% believe either of them.

But he’s poor and not bright and in America so they probably did **** him over. And Brendan.

@tga, where did you read the “other side” about Avery?

We’re two episodes from the end, but I pretty much know what’s happened anyway, so I’d be interested to hear the other side.

deadlydarcy

@tga, where did you read the “other side” about Avery?

We’re two episodes from the end, but I pretty much know what’s happened anyway, so I’d be interested to hear the other side.

Multiple sources. To be fair a lot of the “other side” is actually in the doc. It’s just presented with context and not dwelt upon.

@tga, where did you read the “other side” about Avery?

Apparently Ken has sent out emails pointing out the missed evidence.

Must be true then.

I think I just googled ‘the other side of the Steven Avery case’ or something like that, and there are various items about him – domestic violence, something about harassing the journalist, I can’t recall the exact details. Of course there is no way of assessing the credibility of these so it would be daft to take them at face value, but that’s not to say they don’t muddy the water – no doubt what they’re intended to do.

To be fair, I didn’t want to google it. Just wondered if there was an unbiased account by an investigative journalist out there.

I think I just googled ‘the other side of the Steven Avery case’ or something like that

Similar levels of investigative rigour as the Manitowoc PD.

The last two episodes where the focus swings away from Steven and looks at Brendan and his appeals are where it really hit home for me how broken the system is.

Similar levels of investigative rigour as the Manitowoc PD.

🙂 indeed

I’m only on the fourth episode but even what they’ve shown so far re Brandon is a disgrace.

I’m not very impressed with the judge either.

how broken the system is

What really gets me is how loaded it is against the poor/uneducated. Frighteningly enough, this guy actually had good lawyers. I think it was the earlier ruling that they couldn’t name or accuse anybody else of the crime was what done it for him – the defence needed to be able to do this to introduce doubt into the minds of the jury – given that the presumption of innocence was all but destroyed by the prosecution before the trial even began. It seems to me that they had a good idea of who was really responsible. The judge’s rulings throughout seemed to load everything in favour of the prosecution.

If this had happened to somebody living in the Hamptons, there isn’t a chance they’d have gone down for it.

Also, her brother is a prick and I find him ever so slightly sinister. There seems to be this thing where the victim’s family are almost bound to side with the prosecution and go with whatever ridiculous shit they come up with.

I’m still to understand how Brendan’s initial lawyer was taken off the case for allowing him to be interviewed without legal counsel, but then those exact interviews be used in court to “prove” his guilt.

deadlydarcy – Member

To be fair, I didn’t want to google it. Just wondered if there was an unbiased account by an investigative journalist out there.

The main things that are being reported the other side of Avery are as follows. When he was a teenager he drunkenly threw a cat into a fire. Not very nice, but it’s in the documentary, right at the start. He had a bitter dispute with the wife of a Sheriff’s deputy culminating in him stopping her car with his car. Again, at the start of the doc, and appears to be open to debate as to what really happened.

He threatened to kill his ex wife. Again, that’s in there. Increasingly acrimonious letters where they are basically going through a divorce and he’s suicidal.

His girlfriend at the time of his arrest for the Halbach murder, Jodie Stachowski is being reported as having said he told her he murdered Halbach, although what she appears to have actually said is that she knows he murdered Halbach because she believed he was capable of it. Though in the doc she constantly professes his innocence even to the point of going to jail for breaching a no contact order.

Then there’s other evidence related stuff. The prosecution presented “Shackles” Avery owned into evidence that Avery bound and raped Halbach, but none of Halbach’s DNA was found on them.

DNA from Avery’s sweat was found under the bonnet of Halbach’s Rav4.

The prosecution alleged that Avery used a withheld number to call Autotrader and lured Halbach out there unwittingly. Her autotrader collegues testified that she knew she was going out to meet Steven Avery and phone records showed he didn’t call from a withheld number.

@fin25, even worse is how expert lawyers on forced confessions can present evidence in court showing convincingly how Brendan wasn’t even nearly given the level of support expected in law, and that his lawyer actively conspired with the prosecution (don’t get me started on that shit stain blubbing on the stand over the white ribbon), and this is not recognised by any court in the state. Unreal.

don’t get me started on that shit stain blubbing on the stand over the white ribbon

Oh my god, what a douche…

Incredible that they couldn’t get a re-trial despite proving they bullied a boy into confessing.

shocking story, so many problems with the prosecution its beyond belief either were convicted.

Just finished watching this and found it compelling viewing.
Anyone recommend any other good documentaries on Netflix? Cheers

What’s the bets this thread will just bubble along for 3 or 4 months, avoided for fear of spoilers by everyone who’s yet to watch and bumped up every time someone finishes it? 🙂

Finished it last night (although didn’t really need to avoid the thread as I’d already heard a fair bit about the case anyway). Utterly ridiculous – two many WTF moments in the prosecution case to even start listing them out.

Anyway, for a bit more WTFery, the Guardian are running an interesting multimedia series called The Injustice System. At the moment, they’re doing the case of Tyra Patterson – another dodgy looking case from Ohio. I’ve only got most of the way through Part 1 for now but it makes interesting reading, both for the case and some of the statistics regarding The USA’s seeming addiction to incarceration and the way the system appears loaded towards making it hugely difficult for wrongly convicted people to prove their innocence. Anyway, worth a read…The Injustice System

given that the presumption of innocence was all but destroyed by the prosecution and the defence (Kuchinsky) before the trial even began

ftfy!

I read a report recently of a death row prisoner who’s lawyer was mostly asleep* during his case. The court recognised that he didn’t get a great trial, and dis-barred his lawyer…However the court still found him guilty, and sentenced him to death. Go figure, as they say in the states.

*Not figuratively asleep, actual snorning, sweet dreams asleep.

John Grisham’s “the Innocent Man” is worth a read – very similar stuff. Utterly shocking.

What really gets me is how loaded it is against the poor/uneducated

I read one of the BBC news ‘Magazine’ articles the other week about a case in New Orleans, murder of UK tourist I think. Retired police officers were saying that they basically approached poor (mostly black) young men with the attitude of “if you’re not guilty of this then you’re guilty of something else, so there’s no harm in fitting you up”.

Wasn’t there a case recently where a guy was found guilty in a (arguably) dodgy trial, someone else was then convicted of single-handedly committing the same crime, but the first guy wasn’t released?

Just finished this. Unbelievable! It’s the interview between Brendan and his own investigator that gets me the most, when he is handed the paper with the asking whether you are a) guilty and not sorry or b) guilty and sorry. Arrgh!

Watched this over the weekend, utterly gripping to watch and horrifying to watch the justice system in America in action.
Not the ending I was hoping for, where the bad buys get there comeuppance.

jimjam
What’s the bets this thread will just bubble along for 3 or 4 months, avoided for fear of spoilers by everyone who’s yet to watch and bumped up every time someone finishes it?

*their.

*their.

Thanks, will make sure it doesn’t happen again 🙂

What other documentaries are worth checking out on Netflix? Searching via the TV remote is right pain so some pointers to speed up this would help.

And Brendan Dassey has his conviction overturned:

A judge overturned the murder conviction of Brendan Dassey, the subject of the Netflix documentary series Making a Murderer, on Friday.

Federal magistrate William Duffin handed down the ruling in the murder of Wisconsin woman Teresa Halbach. Dassey and his uncle Steven Avery were found guilty in Halbach’s 2005 death in separate trials.

“These repeated false promises, when considered in conjunction with all relevant factors, most especially Dassey’s age, intellectual deficits, and the absence of a supportive adult, rendered Dassey’s confession involuntary under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments,” Duffin wrote in his 91-page ruling.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/aug/12/making-a-murderer-brendan-dassey-retrial-release%5D

Nice

Yes – though they’ve got 90 days to file new charges. So it might not be over for him.