Negotiating buying new bike from LBS

A couple of my local bike shops automatically do a 10% off rrp due to a deal with my employer. If they didn’t I would phone around till I found some one who would like my money at a price I am comfortable paying.

thats easy then, mark up all bikes by 10% and give you your special discount 😉 😉

Mboy you talk a lot of sense, and basically my out look as well.
Regular customers get good deals, often with out asking, or more often than not I tweak things on the bike that I think needs doing (even if not asked for)

Next week I got a regular customer having some groupset upgrades and some new wheels and he going to go tubeless for the first time, so he is coming into the workshop to learn all about, it how to set it, tips etc.
And I happy to do FOC for him as well.

For all of the people who say “don’t negotiate…LBS’s need to make a living” have you never asked for a discount on anything? Honest not even when buying a car? A house?

Don’t ask…don’t get that’s my moto! I’ve asked for discounts in all sorts or retailers and you’d be surposed at the deals that can be had. LBS’s are no different.

I’m fine with don’t ask don’t get but just don’t expect it. See the posts above about people saying they would walk if they were not offered a discount.

For all of the people who say “don’t negotiate…LBS’s need to make a living” have you never asked for a discount on anything? Honest not even when buying a car? A house?

No, I’ve never asked for a discount on anything. My car had a price tag on it, that’s what I paid.

I get a discount from my local second-hand bookshop, but I never asked for that, he does it because I’m a regular and buy teh weird stuff he can’t shift.

No, I’ve never asked for a discount on anything. My car had a price tag on it, that’s what I paid.

Wow…you could have saved yourself some serious money over the years I’ve never met a car dealer/dealership that won’t do a deal.

No, I’ve never asked for a discount on anything. My car had a price tag on it, that’s what I paid.

While I don’t doubt your truthiness, that seems so odd to me.

The car is about 8 years old, still got lots of life left in it. Maybe I could have saved some money, but I’m not all that motivated by money, that’s why I work in the bike industry 😉

I’m fine with don’t ask don’t get but just don’t expect it. See the posts above about people saying they would walk if they were not offered a discount.

Exactly this.
This thread was started by someone who admits to not buying a bike for over ten years yet wants to know what discount he can EXPECT.
If you’re a regular, loyal and valued customer I dare say you can expect a discount. It’s a reward for the business you have already given the store.
If you are not supporting the store then for me the answer to what you expect is zero.

I actually said I hadn’t bought a new bike ” from a shop ” in 10 years, in the last year I reckon I have spent over £500 in the branch of Evans I am contemplating buying a bike in for a bike build, services and various bits and bobs.

It is actually quite difficult to be recognised as semi-regular customer in this shop as it is a busy London branch which appears to have a high staff turnover

The last time I bought a new bike in a shop, without asking I got offered a helmet and D Lock so I was enquiring whether this was the norm. I don’t want to spend a grand on a bike and later find out that if I’d asked I might have got a few extras thrown in (which would incentivise me to not just buy the bike but to use the shop more often too)

Interesttingly I have had two emails from people in bike shops on the back of this thread – 1 offering me the bike I mentioned with a discount, and another suggesting I call them to speak to them. I have politely declined both offers as neither shop are near me, and I actually want to buy from a local, get it set up by a pro as I am a bit clueless about road bikes. I’m willing to pay more for that, but I’m sure there is some room for negotiation on RRP.

And the big problem there is Evans isn’t your normal LBS, it’s a chain which will have some rules. Unless you have a ongoing relationship with someone there you will get what is standard (Spend x get helmet thrown in) or if they have a customer tracking system they can add up your spends and see if you are a good enough customer.

the smaller LBS’s will probably know who you are if you are a regular, know what you buy and how much then make a decision as to how to deal with you. a much more fluid system.

Unless someone from Evans is going to post this months rules up (which I doubt they would) you might just have to suck it and see. If you are looking for extras have an idea what you want when you go in (shoes/pedals/clothing etc.) and tell them what you are hoping to buy and see what they do.

I’m surprised at how ‘sensitive’ some seller are to the correct manner in which negotiations start!

You’re in Salesman mode, any mention of discounts/best price is basically the customer showing they are getting ready to splurge some cash. An unhelpful or sarcastic reply (even with a grin) is likely to see them walking out with their wallet still stuffed full, or walking out with the full price item but with an opinion that you will not negotiate so they’ll just go direct to CRC next time.

An apology that you can’t match the price on that particular item due your margins would show the customer that you need to make ends meet as a business, doesn’t make them feel bad for asking, and more likely they’ll come back.

When I buy parts for my van from the dealer, I know they are going to look it up on the screen and give me the RRP, even though when I ask for their ‘best price’ I know they will immediately drop approximately 25% off as long as its sitting on the shelf to compete with the online motor factors.

If someone asks for ‘your best price’ you don’t absolutely have to give them your best price, you just give them your first price!

You’re in Salesman mode, any mention of discounts/best price is basically the customer showing they are getting ready to splurge some cash

It really isn’t that simple. As myself, mboy and others have alluded to, how people ask, and how the act often tells you more about their intentions than anything else. You get very good at spotting it.

Asking what’s you best price is also a good indicator that they’ve already scoped out the cheapest place online, and are price checking you, without actually being up front about it.

These are the people that will walk away if your best price is not lower, they’re not interested in your extra services, negotiating or anything else, and they’re not the people that would follow up by then say ‘I’ve seen if for X online, can you do a deal?’, those people say that up front and are willing to compromise or deal, ‘best pricers’ normally aren’t.

sarcastic reply (even with a grin) is likely to see them walking out with their wallet still stuffed full, or walking out with the full price item but with an opinion that you will not negotiate so they’ll just go direct to CRC next time

Not in my experience, most of the time getting the buyer involved in light hearted discussion allows a more relaxed exchange and you come to an agreement quicker, and with both parties happier about it, maybe if you just said ‘no discount’ and stonewalled them, but that’s not what we’re talking about is it.

An apology that you can’t match the price on that particular item due your margins would show the customer that you need to make ends meet as a business, doesn’t make them feel bad for asking, and more likely they’ll come back

Taking the apology route and complaining about your margins directly comes off as whiny and makes you look weaker in comparison to other shops, far better to use the opportunity to engage in discussion about other services and what you can do for them, not what you can’t.

Language again, you focus on what deals and offers you can do, it’s a more positive message than apologising that you’re not able to do the same as someone else, and gives you the opportunity to justify why your service is better, not to explain why your prices are worse.

The ones that do walk off are invariably the ones that wouldn’t have bought anyway as above.

However contentious this may be, I’m going to say it anyway…

Some customers are more trouble than they’re worth in the long run and you’re better of spending your time on other potential and existing customers.

You might think a seller is stupid to lose any opportunity of a sale but there’s more value in a sale than the margin on that single transaction.

People countering this by saying that you’d have gone back if you’d got a discount, well that’s great, but you’d be expecting that discount again next time wouldn’t you, or would you be happy to pay full price on your subsequent visits?

Should the seller keep cutting their own margin over and over again for people like you or better to try and maintain it and sell to someone else?

Nobody wins in a race to the bottom.

As I said earlier though, its obviously different for different industries, in some a discount is actually normal and expected, in others you’d never get a discount, and I’m only talking from my experiences.

I think this thread is derailing slight from the OP though.

OP – go to the shop and speak to them about what deals they can do, if you’re happy with the offers then crack on, if not look elsewhere, but don’t be surprised if Evans are a lot less flexible than an independent on what they can offer.

When I bought my new road bike a few months ago, I just asked “this is my budget what are the options?”

Shown an aluminium bike and a carbon bike, the carbon bike was discounted already as it was a 2014 model but they offered me another £150 off which turned out to be £50 more than my budget. Too good a price to pass up, so I walk away happy with the price and the LBS is happy to shift this years model to make room for 2015 bikes.

No haggling required. I knew I couldn’t get a better price for the model I bought and I was also supporting a fantastic local bike shop

These are the people that will walk away if your best price is not lower, they’re not interested in your extra services, negotiating or anything else, and they’re not the people that would follow up by then say ‘I’ve seen if for X online, can you do a deal?’, those people say that up front and are willing to compromise or deal, ‘best pricers’ normally aren’t.

It’s an eye-opener, this thread.

Obviously I can’t argue with your experience of customers in general, so perhaps I’m the exception that proves the rule. If I’ve price-checked beforehand, asking for ‘best price’ wouldn’t mean you had to match or beat it, because I place a value on the extra services and convenience an LBS can theoretically offer. It might just mean I want you to get somewhere in the region.

As for finding the exact un-insulting wording that will unlock these magical negotiations, I will freely admit that I’m shit at haggling, and don’t find it a pleasant experience, so I want the best price a shop can achieve while still making money off me. I’m not asking for some price that means you are basically making a loss – why would you offer that up?

And it’s not just an online vs high street thing. I’ve priced a bike at one LBS, taken that price to another I’d preferred to have used, and found they couldn’t/wouldn’t shift from RRP.

A clearly stated discount policy is just the same as selling at a lower price though isn’t it?

Depends how it’s implemented. Leisure Lakes for example have their VIP discount scheme. A clearly stated discount policy and yes the end result is effectively a lower price. But the discount included in that lower price is clearly stated. From a marketing perspective this is almost certainly better than simply just offering the lower price without stating that it’s discounted. As then the customers will consider it to be effectively RRP and are more likely to ask for a further discount, so the seller is back to square one except with less margin to play with. Of course we all know that high street retailers and supermarkets use this sort of ‘discount’ strategy all the time and it works.

@Moshi

yes I see what you mean, I was thinking in the more simplistic sense, whereby you just have a fixed discount available. With member schemes and such its obviously different, and very structured.
Some people respond to that, others dont like the complexity and ‘rules’ of the scheme and prefer a good old haggle. I like both ways of doing it depending on situation 🙂

@martinhutch

There’s always an exception to the rule, and its as much about reading the situation and the person as anything else. Something which is obviously very hard to do over the internet on threads like this!

You can spot the difference between someone who just isn’t a natural haggler versus someone who is price checking quite easily, so I wouldn’t worry about ‘magic words’ and such, some people feel uneasy asking for a discount, others dont.

What people say, and how they say it, along with their body language and actions, when observed for long enough will allow you to make relatively quick (and normally accurate!) assessments about buyers and sellers.

It’s just general observations about trends based on experience, nothing more. I guess if you want to get to the crux of the matter..

Nice polite people are nice to deal with, be that seller or buyer, and the best deals will be made when both parties are happy.

Rude presumptuous people are unpleasant to deal with, be that seller or buyer, and the best deals will not be made with such people.

———————–

Side note, its actually a fascinating topic to read about, the psychology around sales, buying, bartering and negotiation. Even if you’re not in a sales related job it’s interesting if you’re into things like that, and can help you out as a buyer too.

The differences between how different cultures approach it is equally interesting!

Some customers are more trouble than they’re worth in the long run and you’re better of spending your time on other potential and existing customers.

Well that’s certainly true in the business world and no reason to think it would be any different in the bike trade. When I was in business (not bikes) if I met a prospective client and they couldn’t see the value in our service or far more likely they wanted the service at a ridiculously low price I would simply walk away. Sometimes it’s just not worth your limited time.

I know the bike trade is a tough living and LBS staff are not paid well, so I don’t push for discounts very hard at all. But I do expect good service in return for my business and usually get it that way. The last thing you want to do when trying to build a relationship with a shop is to put their backs up by demanding a CRC price match or large discount for no reason. On the other hand if I’m a repeat customer spending thousands of pounds I would expect a bit of special treatment.

The problem with criticising anyone who ‘expects a discount’ is that new bikes are big ticket items, and there is a cultural expectation that some negotiation and discounting is likely on them.

As much as I hate haggling, and would rather people just paid what was on the ticket for houses, cars, electricals etc, if I walked away with a 3/4K bike paying RRP, I’d have a nagging feeling that the retailer was smiling at my naivety, regardless of whether that was the case or not.

The problem with criticising anyone who ‘expects a discount’ is that new bikes are big ticket items, and there is a cultural expectation that some negotiation and discounting is likely on them

You’ve contradicted yourself there using ‘expect a discount’ and ‘expectation that some negotiation and discounting is likely‘

It comes back to the same thing again, you can always ask, and you can even think it might be likely, but you can’t expect that you will get a discount, regular customer or not, although obviously it may be more likely if you are.

that new bikes are big ticket items

Also, don’t get caught in the STW trap of thinking all bikes are multi-thousand opound big purchases, there are plenty of cheaper bikes out there with much tighter margins and less wiggle room, that fly out of the door at full retail.

In the same vein, the problem with generalising is that as you already said, there are always exceptions to the rule, like models that are hard to find or sold out, why should you expect a discount even on a 4K item if there’s only 3 left in the country and 5 people lined up to buy it behind you?

I would go for at least 10% from Evans if paying cash but also look online see if its cheaper there.

You’ve contradicted yourself there using ‘expect a discount’ and ‘expectation that some negotiation and discounting is likely

Imprecise language fail! I guess the point is that the retailer should expect to be asked the question on all decent-sized transactions, and not treat it as a sign that the customer has some kind of entitlement issues.

You are free to chuck out anyone who haggles over the price of inner tubes, though. 🙂

new bikes are big ticket items

They can be, yes – but not in comparison to things like horses, expensive golf sticks, sailing dinghys etc. By thinking bikes are expensive, you’re falling into the same mental trap as the “you could get a car for that” attitude.

My average bike is probably around £2500. People very rarely ask for a discount outright, occasionally they ask if can do a bit on the price if they order two or something, and I do.

But this may be because there’s not much competition for the odd bikes I do.

By thinking bikes are expensive, you’re falling into the same mental trap as the “you could get a car for that” attitude.

To a degree, but if I was buying a 3 grand used car, I think I’d be expected to haggle a bit (perhaps not in car supermarkets these days, though).

Imprecise language fail! I guess the point is that the retailer should expect to be asked the question on all decent-sized transactions, and not treat it as a sign that the customer has some kind of entitlement issues.

Absolutely agree there, any retailer should expect the question to be asked, but the buyer shouldn’t expect a discount to be available.

And that’s where the difference between asking if a deal/discount is possible, versus assuming it is and asking for the cheapest price straight way comes in.

It’s two very different attitudes, but with subtly different approaches.

You are free to chuck out anyone who haggles over the price of inner tubes, though

Actually, if buying more than two I would ask if there was a deal on them! But then a lot of shops have deals on multiple tubes anyway.

So all of you that ask for discounts will be happy for your employers to ask for a discount on your salary?

Evans offered discount through various quidco type websites, but you had to order online. I spoke to head office and explained I wanted to buy from and support my local store but didn’t want to lose out on the discount. (only 4%) told them it was 5%. they agreed, let me pay them over the phone and then i went to pick it up.

If you don’t ask, then you’ll never know

So all of you that ask for discounts will be happy for your employers to ask for a discount on your salary?

that’s a bit random.

Surely when you took your job (and maybe at review time) you negotiated your salary, the employer probably started with a low offer and you asked for more?

Same process really, a negotiation that ends in a compromise mutually agreeable to both.

In some cases it might not be the case with fixed salary offers or being headhunted, but the same is true, you don’t expect, but you can ask.

But I doubt you’d start a salary negotiation with the line ‘What’s the most you will pay me?’, you’d word it a bit better than that.

So all of you that ask for discounts will be happy for your employers to ask for a discount on your salary?

Strewth, Bruce. That’s a bit obtuse.

The bike trade is special in so many ways,

I hope you are saying this with your tongue firmly in cheek., because I am afraid it’s not. No more or less special than any other retail trade. Selling goods and services where the goods go out of date is not unique.

I love a great bike shop and a great shop is certainly not defined by the level of discount. In fact, like many here I will pay a little more to support a local, independent cycle business. I feel the same about all types of businesses – – hence why I love a good local cafe over Starbucks etc…

Anyway OP, ask if that is the best they can do on purchase or do they offer accessories or loyalty points or scheduled services as an inclusive. It doesn’t hurt to ask and bike shops and purchases are not sacred! My main advice though would be not to buy where the discount is biggest – go where you feel looked after and where you would feel best for buying from.

So all of you that ask for discounts will be happy for your employers to ask for a discount on your salary?

Yes, when ‘negotiating’ my wage package the employer asked my salary expectations…I asked for one figure they offered slightly less like a bike shop I could accept or decline the offer!

Also look at the bigger picture, dealers most probably have quotas whereby the more they sell the better price they get plus they may have to sell an agreed amount in order to remain a dealer, if a few £££ is going to contribute toward securing a deal it is probably a positive action.

I hope you are saying this with your tongue firmly in cheek., because I am afraid it’s not.

Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but not completely – look at what we’re discussing, Local Bike Shops. There aren’t really any Local Electrical Shops any more, Local Book Shops are disappearing fast, and Local Music Shops are dead. The very fact that there are still lots of individual businesses selling bicycles is unusual in retail.

Well, we agree then – local shops are important!