Negotiating buying new bike from LBS

Supply is restricted because no-one wants to be left with old stock at the end of the year, because cyclists are such fickle people that a year-old bike is worth half what the latest model is.

If the bike/component manufacturers didn’t have yearly release cycles, then this would be less of an issue, no?

If the bike/component manufacturers didn’t have yearly release cycles, then this would be less of an issue, no?

Absolutely, and even worse they often change model years right in the middle of the peak sales season. There’s a vicious cycle* where journalists enthuse over the latest wheel size or whatever, so customers want it, so manufacturers make it, so journalists gush over it until the next revolutionary thing comes along.

I’m very glad the bikes I deal with are built by more sensible companies and bought by more sensible people, so they don’t do model years, they just do continuous small improvements. That’s how I can afford to have demo bikes, they don’t become obsolete every year.

*sorry 😉

Amadeus how is someone asking ‘what’s the lowest price’ not them just beginning the negotiation with you? It’s isnt a ‘demand’ it’s a pretty simple question. Your answer of ‘best for you or best for me’ is not that open a question as it really has only two answers. You could move things along by, for example, recommending them a lower spec (cheaper) product if they want to spend less and then begin ‘selling’ the product they are actually enquiring about in the first place. This gives you the chance to even push their budget and maybe sell the next model up, based on its benefits, or something.

Evans used to give 10% off for CTC membership so considering they are a big chain (buying in bulk) then there might be some scope for negotiation. I don’t think Evans charge an additional admin fee if spending £1000 on B2W (some places do), so again if buying cash there might be some margin there.

Also need to consider different bike models might have different margins – my lbs gives me discounts for cash / debit card, but this year they’ve had to be careful with at least one manufacturer – the rrp on some bikes has been tweaked to hit certain price / spec points but the trade price hasn’t, so there is less margin for the retailler to play with (careless discounting could end up with them selling at cost or even a loss).

Get your employer to start a cycle to work scheme (evans have their own) and buy it on that. save up to 40%, depending on how hard you tried at school. 😉

Unfortunately my company don’t offer C2W, I’d more happily pay full whack if I had a decent friendly independent LBS, but Evans is the most convenient for me to get to and I would think that due to economies of scale, they could offer a better deal than most, whether that be on price, throwing in accessories, free servicing, loyalty discounts etc hence my initial post. I’m not trying to bankrupt a shop FFS just shopping around for the best deal I can get on a new bike, if I can get a better deal than they are advertising it will probably result in them selling me a bike and getting my repeat custom, but at full price of £1k I could probably get a better specced bike from one of the online manufacturers.

how is someone asking ‘what’s the lowest price**’ not them just beginning the negotiation with you?

It really is an attitude thing, it’s not ‘starting’ a negotiation, it’s assuming that a discount is available and trying to jump straight to the end,

Starting a negotiaton goes more along the lines of:

can you do any kind of deal?

or

would there be any discount available?

or

any room for movement on that?

or

can we do a deal if I buy X Y Z as well?

or

its right at the top of my budget, any chance we could do a deal?

or

Any number of other ways! None of the above are presumptive, they are questions about the possibility of discount, but starting off with what is essentially “Sell me this as cheap as you can” just comes off as assumptive and entitled, and if you read my comments further you’d have noticed I was also saying this is an observation about the kind of people that I have observed opening with this are generally the ones who don’t want to negotiate and just expect discount. It’s a generalisation yes, but a generalisation based on observation.

Most of the time when someone opens with that, and you reply with a figure, they don’t then start negotiating, they don’t then ask ‘can you go any lower’. I imagine thats because to do so would be a bit odd as they’ve just categorically asked for the best price. This is all based on my own experiences of trying many different things with people over the years. Yours may be different of course.

Your answer of ‘best for you or best for me’ is not that open a question as it really has only two answers

Again, have a read of my comments, its obvious to both parties that this is a rhetorical question, it is a subtle reminder that negotiation goes both ways, it’s give and take, and said with a smile it normally then prompts a followup more along the lines of the above.

I also never said that is the end of the conversation, there’s a whole world of discussion possibilities after that with regards to budget, spec, other items, but invariably for those people they would still end up with a ‘whats you best price’ question.

**pedant mode: “what’s your lowest price” is not the same as “what’s your best price”, one implies you could sell the item at a lower price, the other implies an expectation that they will get the ‘best’ price, ie: they are deserving of the best.

A seller saying, unprompted, ‘the best deal I could do for you is X’ is a different matter, the seller would then have offered something to the buyer, rather than the buyer assuming they are entitled to it.

There’s always a hundred different ways to say the same thing, but the language you use is important.

Agree with Amedias here, the opening gambit of “what’s your best price?” just comes across as grabbing and greedy.

I’m not in a trade but have bought and sold all the cars I’ve ever owned on the used market and although I’ve always owned my motorcycles from new I’ve sold plenty of them onwards on the used market.

Whenever anybody asks me for the best price I just restate the advertised price and walk away, they are human excrement and not worth dealing with…..somebody polite will be along at some point so no loss as far as i’m concerned.

There’s always a hundred different ways to say the same thing, but the language you use is important

Yup. Also remember you’re probably talking to someone passionate about bikes, totally overqualified for his/her job*, earning around minimum wage, working weekends, being asked to match CRC, do minor repairs for free or show people how to do them for free…need I go on?

Lazy negotiating is irritating, it’s almost as bad as a first post “what’s your lowest price?” on the classifieds forum.

If folk ask me for a discount, I ask why – is someone else selling cheaper etc?

*yeah I know that’s our fault and we should get a better job, but **** you anyway.

Tell them that in order to ringfence the unicorn, you need to be singing from the same hymn sheet and get all the ducks in a row. To achieve this, suggest they sharpen their pencil as this will incentivise yourself to purchase from themselves.

10% off retail on my last bike purchase.

Yup. Also remember you’re probably talking to someone passionate about bikes, totally overqualified for his/her job*, earning around minimum wage, working weekends, being asked to match CRC, do minor repairs for free or show people how to do them for free…need I go on? [Don’t forget the “I’m going to buy it online anyway, but will use you as a showroom” brigade]

*yeah I know that’s our fault and we should get a better job, but **** you anyway.

*Applauds!*

Though there are many different types of bike out there, ultimately in my experience there are only 2 types of customer…

Those that buy on price alone, and those that weigh up many factors (price, service, after sales support, availability, knowledge etc.) and then make an informed decision.

Those that buy on price alone are total time wasters as far as any LBS is concerned… I’ve got a few “customers” like that (they’ve bought a few inner tubes maybe, not much more) and they’ve usually got a number of flashy bikes, not necessarily the right thing for their needs, they’re normally on the hunt for the next bargain to replace the bike they bought only 3 months ago but don’t get on that well with, and they’ve all got flash cars and decent disposable incomes… I spot them a mile off these days, but they all seem to think I owe them some kind of favour, and asking me for a huge discount off a bike, or telling me they can buy XYZ 10% cheaper online, is going to get any kind of reaction from me… I don’t even humour them any more!

The thing is, my best customers, the ones who I will really go the extra mile for, have all had incredibly good deals off me, more so than I would like to admit in many cases, but then these are the guys that pop in week on week, they put the kettle on when they see you’re busy fixing a bike, they tell their friends and colleagues about your shop and even bring them in personally to help them buy a bike off you! They also go on shop rides, are active on facebook promoting anything to do with the shop etc. They become brand ambassadors, and as such, get rewarded for doing so without even asking…

To the OP… Take the time out to find a decent independent LBS, buy a bike off them, and build a relationship. Evans serve a purpose, but trust me though their buying power is good, their overall margins aren’t what you might imagine and they often have less room to manoeuvre than a good independent might, even if it’s only with extra service or accessories rather than discount off a bike. Then build the relationship with the shop once the bike is bought, you’ll find you get treated very well for your efforts.

When your trying to sell something I don’t see the point in getting precious about the language used-you need to read between the lines not everyone is a skilled negotiator and the line ‘what’s your lowest/best/cheapest/worstest/most brilliant price’ should be great news to a seller as its a clear signal that they are interested.

As for someone being ‘human excrement’ because they dared to ask a second hand car salesman his lowest price? No ironing there at all!

Yup. Also remember you’re probably talking to someone passionate about bikes, totally overqualified for his/her job*, earning around minimum wage, working weekends,…

This is one thing that’s unusual about the bicycle industry* – I don’t know anyone who’s in it for the money. Sure, we like to make a living, a decent living is better, but money is not the prime motivation, it’s a nice side-effect from being able to mess about with bikes all day.

It’s a bit more like art or science in that respect, rather than business.

*I don’t like the word “trade”

Whenever anybody asks me for the best price I just restate the advertised price and walk away, they are human excrement and not worth dealing with….

Bit harsh.

Support good business not local business.

Get the best average from:

Product
Price
Service

the line ‘what’s your lowest/best/cheapest/worstest/most brilliant price’ should be great news to a seller as its a clear signal that they are interested.

Except that it’s often not, it’s often an indicator that this particular person is only interested if they can either get it massively reduced from you, or cheaper elsewhere.

Reading between the lines and all that 😉

I normally ask if there’s any leeway on the price, usually there is.

I got a discount in Curry’s on a few items because I asked.

But I’ll agree don’t think that you’re ever entitled to a discount.

I don’t buy bikes very often, see them as a 3 or more year purchase – my LBS gave me standard “last year’s model” reduction and I was happy with that.
Bonus is I get a decent “few quid off” on bits’n’pieces, good deal on servicing and usually a free tweak of the gears and brakes if I pop in when they’re not busy (is a road bike so not my strong point in fettling).
For the sake of saving less than a few quid a week over the bike’s use so far I’m more than satisfied 🙂

Wow some really poor attitudes in here, mostly from those selling it would seem.

A couple of my local bike shops automatically do a 10% off rrp due to a deal with my employer. If they didn’t I would phone around till I found some one who would like my money at a price I am comfortable paying. Last bike I got 30% off (a grand)

I have to earn that extra money. Why on earth would anyone pay more than they have to? I’d rather give the difference to charity….

I have to earn that extra money.

And the people selling (Regardless of delivery channel, be it bricks and mortar or online) are just doing it for fun, I suppose. Not one of them needs a salary. Hell, you should just be given your bike free for being so awesome!

Think of your own line of work. If it’s a service or product I can buy from you, what discount will you give me just for buying it from you? I’ll give you zero promise of further custom, mind you, I just want to make this one off purchase. So, what’s your best price?

*Edited before Jamie’s addition below. Sorry, old fruit!*

Think of your own line of work. If it’s a service or product I can buy from you, what discount will you give me just for buying it from you?

Why not ask him what his best price is?

Get to the heat of the meat, as it were.

Just recently bought an entry level new 2015 hardtail for my wife. Got offered free helmet instead of discount and was notionally worth about 10% of purchase price so kind of what I expected.

Needed a new helmet at the time so asked if they would do a deal if bought both and they just offered free helmet with the bike. Didn’t bother to try and negotiate any more as happy with that deal.

Hell, you should just be given your bike free for being so awesome!

To be fair, He might buy an inner tube off them in 2 years. Do they not want that sale?!?!?

Discounts are rife in my industry….

It’s called negotiation, as long as the person asking is polite then they should be responded to as such. Especially if the product you sell is easily source able from another supplier. If you have something unique or you’ve all clubbed together to price fix then feel free to stick to your guns.

You lot all buy cars at screen price I take it then? And holidays? Furniture? TVs? Houses?

Anything worth more than a few hundred quid is worth asking about. I’ve saved literally tens of thousands. Doesn’t always work tried bloody hard to get a discount on a sonos unit earlier in the year. No joy whatsoever. But I wanted a sonos and not some other device so I sucked it up and paid retail

Even utilities, bank accounts where you can’t directly negotiate you can vote with your feet by selecting a supplier more appropriate to your needs.

Unless of course you are so minted you don’t need to worry about those sorts of things!

Nobody saying don’t ask for a deal, just don’t expect one, and how you ask can play a part.

It’s not difficult!

DT78 – Member
Wow some really poor attitudes in here, mostly from those selling it would seem.

A couple of my local bike shops automatically do a 10% off rrp due to a deal with my employer. If they didn’t I would phone around till I found some one who would like my money at a price I am comfortable paying. Last bike I got 30% off (a grand)

I have to earn that extra money. Why on earth would anyone pay more than they have to? I’d rather give the difference to charity….

Do you give it to charity?

I would phone around till I found some one who would like my money

How would you negotiate that?

You say this as if “your money” is something special…it’s the amount of money that matters, we have to earn ours too…how do you earn yours?

My money says you don’t do any monetary negotiations in your work.

Nobody saying don’t ask for a deal, just don’t expect one

Egg zakkly!

Of course, you should expect one. Who pays full price for anything these days. You can even get a discount in pret a manger on a good day.

The bike industry fixes prices and restricts competition. Why encourage that?

Nobody saying don’t ask for a deal, just don’t expect one

Hmm. Not sure about that.

Bought a bike from a store deliberatly notnowned by a mate by to avoid any discount thoughts. Bought a jacket in his store a bit later. Then bought a Whyte and on Sunday wandered in with a single speed munter I’d found on the web and they spent half an hour truing the rear wheel and didn’t charge me. So I ended up buying Slime tubes I needed anyway and they sold me killer cake and coffee.
That’s what your LBS should be about. Mine is Rides on Air / Behind Bars

I usually just check online prices of the shops on the net, go to the shop that gives the best service and say ‘store X is selling product A for this price, I’d rather buy from you guys, if you’ll match the price I’ll buy it from you now.’ Never had a no, always had a discount and I get to use the shop I like. I only do this on higher value items or it’s scabby imo.

Don’t see whether my job involves negotiation matters or not to this topic, but as you asked yes it does. And at budgets quite a bit bigger than bikes.

I usually just check online prices of the shops on the net, go to the shop that gives the best service and say ‘store X is selling product A for this price, I’d rather buy from you guys, if you’ll match the price I’ll buy it from you now.’ Never had a no, always had a discount and I get to use the shop I like. I only do this on higher value items or it’s scabby imo.

Customers that do this usually get rewarded for being honest, and thoughtful… I’ll always (where I can, sometimes it’s just impossible) match said price for a customer in this kind of situation, and even put the kettle on!

In fact one guy rang me the other day, after a pair of tyres. Said “They’re £34.99 RRP, CRC have them for 10% off, what can you do?”… So did my sums, worked out I was ok doing them for £30 apiece (beating CRC!) and still make enough out of the deal (I wasn’t having to special order them or anything, so no carriage costs) and he was over the moon! 😀

The biggest hatred of those of us running bike shops is dishonesty… The guys who use your shop as a showroom to the internet, or those who string you along for ages saying “I will buy a bike off you when you can bend over backwards and give it to me at cost” (but even then it wouldn’t be good enough) quite frankly can turn around and don’t let the door hit them on their way out! We ALL use the internet to check prices, 9 times out of 10 I’m more aware than the customer what XYZ costs on the internet, and also what tools are required to fit it, and how long it takes to fit etc… Then I remind them that our labour rate is £30 an hour, and if they buy it from me I’ll fit it for free!

You’d still be amazed how many people have to learn the hard way for themselves mind…

The bike industry fixes prices and restricts competition.

No it doesn’t. No-one is stopping you setting up your own bike company and selling bikes you make at whatever price you like. People do it all the time.

Mboy, what a fantastic forward thinking attitude for an LBS. I’m guessing you are not allowed to say your shop name on here though?

On a different note, but similar ish. Recently I went in to a local ski shop, spent £80 on gear for my son, and they knew I was coming back for more. I looked at ski boots for myself rrp £360.

I went down the route of have spent money already with you today, will be doing soon, would they be able to move on the price of the boots. They laughed, and suggested that if everyone asked for a discount they would be out of business. If they had offered 10% I would have bought there and then.

However I went home, googled the boots and found the 2014 version of the boot (identical in every way) for £220.

So by the local ski shop failing to budge, they save me loads of money and lost themselves a lot of custom.

But what you don’t know is if that ski shop sold those boots at full price later that day to somone else.

A couple of my local bike shops automatically do a 10% off rrp due to a deal with my employer. If they didn’t I would phone around till I found some one who would like my money at a price I am comfortable paying.

What does ‘a price i am comfortable paying’ actually mean though?
If this price is, let’s say, £1000 and you’re not comfortable paying more then why look at bikes at a higher price and then expect a discount?

Because he’s worth it?