MTB sales over the last couple of years?

Ianc sorry, what I meant was that we all buy into the lifespan of steel frames but perhaps it’s a false benefit when other parts are likely to change and outdate them. So we agree I think : )

yes, I think we do ! 😛

seperately, does anyone else find that Whistler pic vertigo inducing ? darned scary IMO 🙂

Steerers, axles etc change/will change on those bikes too. Many wouldn’t stop riding MTBs because they get stuck in an upgrade compatibility trap, perhaps they just rethink what an MTB really is. Maybe it also pushes people to reconsider the value of suspension products with compatibility challenges on high-wear bikes. What it also highlights is the real longevity of a good steel frame (and fork, potentially) – maybe too long?

I had this ‘problem’.

I sold my Pitch for a few reasons, one I couldn’t risk crashing at the speeds it enjoyed as my arm is now too fragile. Two, on a 30 mile local loop there were 3 decents, totaling about 5 minutes that it excelled on. Three, it was always broken, a damper would go, a mech would snap, a seatpost would fail to drop or drop without asking, a brake would cook/fail, etc. On every ride either something as wrong, or something went wrong, simply because there was so much there to go wrong!

Whereas my steel SS HT, just goes. I get it out the shed, go for a ride and put it back. Then every couple of weeks it gets some TLC.

I’d say wheelsize put me off getting a replacement to a lesser extent, I’ve a lot of 26″ and 29″ wheels, but rims are disposable so I’m not adverse to rebuilding them if nececary. I’d be interested in a Bird FS, or Codine if I could demo them both, and just pick one based on ride, not wheelsize.

But after the experience of owning an ‘expensive’ bike in the Pitch I’ve kinda been put off that part of the market for a while, I’d rather have something simple with fewer bells and whistles, like a Parkwood, even then I’d probably ditch the Reverb.

[edit] and whilst writing that, somene else agreed with me ! [/edit]

I agree though and ironically I think the current crop of bikes, spurred on by the “Enduro” <banghead> craze are possibly the very best go anywhere, do anything bikes ever made.

My gripe with them is they don’t do allong. They climb as quickly as you can pedal them on smooth-ish tracks (but I find they don’t like rough stuff as much as a short travel bike as they weigh too much and sag too much to lift over steps etc), and they bomb down rough tracks. But show them an average bit of flat-ish singletrack and it’s purgatory. On-ones marketing slogan ‘winch and plummet’ is all well and good, but what about the other 50% of most rides?

old drove road that pre-dates the romans Repack

It’s a sure way to start an argument, too. 🙂

Old blokes on ancient bikes: long may they reign.

I had planned to buy a new full suss frame this year to replace my 5 year old Prophet.
I was in the market for a 26″ wheeled 150mm frame to use with my existing forks/wheels/tyres but the speed at which all the major brands went 650b took me by surprise.

Instead I bought thisisnotaspoon’s Pitch frame and in contrast to your experience Sam it’s been relatively trouble free. In the 1300km I’ve ridden over the summer I’ve snapped a mech hanger and a gear cable, other than that it’s been an absolute blast, at home in West Yorks, in the Peak, Lakes, Bike Park Wales and the ‘Ard Rock Enduro.

Can’t see me buying a new bike for a few years now.

I agree with the rising cost of consumables , I have a 5 year old stumpy and just replaced the chain and cassette for 30 quid . I love the look of the new whytes but find myself preferring the mid range ones as I can’t imagine spending a couple of hundred quid on a 1 x 11 cassette after 1 winter . The other thing for me is I look at the new version of my bike and in 5 years the top tube has got a bit longer and the wheels are an inch and a bit bigger , I am not sure I would notice the difference . Never ridden a 29er so the stumpy 29ers could make enough of a difference that I would feel some benefits

I agree with the rising cost of consumables , I have a 5 year old stumpy and just replaced the chain and cassette for 30 quid . I love the look of the new whytes but find myself preferring the mid range ones as I can’t imagine spending a couple of hundred quid on a 1 x 11 cassette after 1 winter

But that’s about the construction of the 11 speed cassette, nothing to do with the ‘rising cost of consumables’. An XG999 9 speed cassette is £280, a 10 speed XX is £300 and 11 speed XX1 is £329. It’s not expensive because it’s 11 speed.

I can see where the money goes but I think it’s an example of the bike industry not necessarily giving people what they want . I know a lot of people who are quite fond of a granny ring and I am not sure I would buy a bike that would never give me the option of fitting a front mech . Having said that I like simple things so can see the appeal of 1 x set ups

10 speed XX is £300

That’s insane! XT 9sp for years was c £35 and replacement triple rings about £100 tops.

My first mountain bike was a 1995 Rockhopper, so not some BSO – and it cost me £400.

It does strike me looking at a lot of the more recent innovations and the prices that are being asked for them that the manufacturers may not have realised that there’s a cost of living crisis for a lot of people, v little in the way of pay rises over the last 10 years which is unlikely to change in the near future. ie: they’re making it unaffordable for many… and one result is to move to road where kit lasts a lot longer

But you don’t have to buy it. An XX 11-36 10 speed cassette weighs less than a 1998 8 speed XTR one which cost £130. Selective quoting too, note the 9 speed one is similarly expensive. Folk moan about the cost of XX1, but it’s barely any more expensive than similar cassettes in 9 or 10 speed.

XT are cheaper than they’ve ever been. Stuff like XX cassettes aren’t proof that bikes are getting more expensive, it’s proof we’re pushing limits more.

See also Enve rims cost more than XC717s…

Is part of the problem also access? Its not improved much.
Money has been put into trail centres, but not linking up existing tracks/bridleways/working out linking sections, so people have relatively easy safe local loops which encourage families/kids to get into riding off road? Loads of these in France which are well used.

In Scotland there are sensible access laws, lots of adventure riding potential, but still rubbish in England and Wales. I know there were some moves from ST to try + make something happen. Local advocacy by the likes of Cotic has made a difference in their community, but what about the bigger bike industry? Putting something back, that will help their future sustainability?

I reckon there’s a kind of low grade discomfort associated with mountain biking in this country that perhaps doesn’t exist in warmer drier climes. Sure it can be dusty and there are some amazing places to ride but it’s often wet, dark, cold, muddy and stuff breaks. You need to be able to embrace that side of it and that’s not for everyone. Surfing here is much the same- there’s very little bikinis clad surfer girls and sunny perfect waves. You have to want it to put up with the scrappy waves and cold water.

Also mtb does involve a certain amount of scaring yourself slightly for the rush and being prepared to hurt yourself a bit in the process. Road cycling doesn’t really have that and that’s not for everyone. I think that’s part of the reason why there are a lot more girls that road bike rather than off road.

Instead I bought thisisnotaspoon’s Pitch frame and in contrast to your experience Sam it’s been relatively trouble free.

youve done almost double the miles I did then! The frame was never a problem, apart from the shock which blew twice! Well three if you count the air seal going on your first ride!

It was mostly spesh cost cutting on components, everything on it was cheap, so for the first few months every ride broke something, once id upgraded everything and spent a fortune it was fine. But then I broke my arm repeatedly and really wasn’t ‘in love’ with the bike anymore after so many aborted rides.

Is part of the problem also access? Its not improved much.
Money has been put into trail centres, but not linking up existing tracks/bridleways/working out linking sections, so people have relatively easy safe local loops which encourage families/kids to get into riding off road? Loads of these in France which are well used.

Yes, its still part of the problem, the system remains very disjointed – Local access forums and ROWIP’s were supposed to work on this, in fact they had a specific remit to look for ‘loop’ routes for various users but my experience so far (visited several meetings of a couple of different LAF’s, and have reviewed lots of ROWIP) has been unimpressive, there seems to be a lot of ‘vision’ and very little actual focus on deliverables.Local authorities have powers to create bridleways to fill in missing links, they never use them

In Scotland there are sensible access laws, lots of adventure riding potential, but still rubbish in England and Wales. I know there were some moves from ST to try + make something happen. Local advocacy by the likes of Cotic has made a difference in their community, but what about the bigger bike industry? Putting something back, that will help their future sustainability?

Personally, I’m resigned that the best way to challenge the situation is to engage in deliberate civil disobedience (hey, it worked for Gandhi!) whilst doing what I can to try and change it (my LAF application is in at the moment, and I’m currently volunteering with CTC on a project) – however IMBA-UK got little support from the wider riding community when we set it up, and CTC have now got rid of their offroad officer. I agree that the industry should do more (trails=sales) however thats still expecting ‘someone else’ to solve this problem, there needs to be a seed change in political awareness and activism from the mountain biking community if things are to change, our elected representatives, on both a local and national level, constantly hear from a vocal minority who complain about being nearly run over by lycra louts on footpaths, we need to be in there with our local councillors and MP’s telling them about Scottish access laws and why we want change, and showing that we want better provision and inclusion, rather than ‘cycling prohibited’ signs.

Bit late to this topic….it’s taken me ages to get through it.

To be honest, I’m pretty on the fence about all of it for loads of reasons; there are a older guys at work getting I to it despite having no interestin the gnarr side of riding. They’ve been in a position to buy pretty good first MTB’s (£1,500). One just uses his for commuting in canal paths but had ridden it loads. And I mean loads. One guy is now racing XC and loving it the other guy seems to have fallen off the wagon after a bad crash at Dalby. There is an older (50?) lady who MTB’s you but is firmly in the mince lite category (Cannock is scary and technical). But she slends loads on posh bikes and had to have a Santa Cruz 29er to help her keep up with the blokes she rides with. Trail centres are also really busy.

On the other hand, I don’t see that many younger lads riding. It does tend to be older people who have jobs,cars etc. Even at places like Antur and BPW. So it seems that despite focusing on being ‘cool’ the marketers aren’t attracting young kids to riding. I started in ’96 when I was 13 and there were loads of teens riding at places like Burnham Beeeches and High Wycome BMX track.

Road seems very popular these days. Everywhere you ok, there seems to be someone on a road bike. I bought I e last year and rode it lots (less so this year) because I love the lack of faff…no driving to get somewhere good, no cleaning etc. It just maximised my riding time.

I think MTBing is expensive, it certainly seems it to me. But I’ve leant to but more cleverly; mechs, chains etc all come from CRC, so I still get to use XT cassettes and top end Sram chains. Tyres from Germany. Mechs and shifters at full RRP are pricey, Shinsmo cranks seem really expensive to me but on the other hand we’ve never had it so good with brakes…the Shimano disc brakes are dirt cheap and work well. Like I said I’m in the fence! I think part of the issue is that people like me who gave ridden for a long time and always used XT/X9 level stuff may need to adjust their expectations down…look at Deore. It looks pretty good these days and works really well.

There also seems to be a lot more discountng. I know sone of this is driven by grey imports etc, but there seem to be a lot of companies jobbing out stuff at a lot less than RRP. The cynic in me the wonders if its actually worth RRP in the first place?

As for the wheel size thing. I think the biggest area yo be hit will be frames. If your buying a full bike it’s not an issue but if you’re like me and like what you like so won’t buy a full bike then your stuck. A friend is similar to me; wants a new frame but in 26 so he can keep his stuf. There is pretty much only Banshee who have swappable drop outs. Although ironically, if u can sell my Banshee I’m thinking of a Slacklune Ti; a posh HT frame on an obsolete wheel size!

You’ll get a liteville 301 that’ll take 26 or 27.1.

Can’t disagree with that Ninfan.

Ninfan – Your 3rd pic, where is it??

Bookmarked for future reference

My last full sus bike was 2008 Commencal Meta 55 XT which was fully kitted out in XT and Fox Float forks for £1900. A similar spec bike these days would be circa £3k.

This, sadly. Look at the prices for Fox over the last six years, it’s no wonder Rockshox have come along and whipped their shorts down with better products for half the price (with discount applied of course).

The middle end of the market has gone berserk, no wonder people aren’t buying mountain bikes. Year on year, the inflation for mountain bikes and parts is rivaled only by my rail season ticket.

@Waywardrider – High Cup Nick.

CBA.
But not in a nasty way. 🙂

Wheel size has made me hold off.

This too.

Thought so, N. Yorkshire at its best. A mini Ordessa Canyon (that’s in the Pyrenees). Was last there about 10 years ago. Now resident London so don’t get upto god’s own as much as I’d like.

Actually I think it’s Cumbria???