Missing twins in Syria want to come home…Quick Poll maybe

Chuck them off a low building and stone them?

Hmmm. Sort of.

No not ‘sort of’. ISIS has been around since before the Iraq War. They were operating in Syria which is were they grew strong, strong enough to start operations in Iraq.

It was only after ISIS had started operating in Iraq that the UK government decided to class them as a terrorist organisation. All the time they were beheading Syrians the UK government was happy not to class them as terrorists.

No not ‘sort of’. ISIS has been around since before the Iraq War.

Erm. No. IS (as we know it, and in name) started in 2006. AQI were a predecessor (although not the only one) and were a terrorist organisation as of 2001.

ISIS/predecessors weren’t in Syria until 2011.

footflaps – Member

No Dragons though

Theresa May?

Chuck them off a low high building and stone them?

@the_muffin you haven’t been getting the ISIS message correctly so I edited it for you

ISIS/predecessors weren’t in Syria until 2011.

@thestabilizer extremists have been around a lot lot longer. BTW the video I embedded says IS / Cailphate has existed for a very long time, they say hospitals and universities where invented by the caliphate

Charming girls in that video Jambalaya.

I wish they’d take the same route to Syria as the other two idiots being discussed in this thread.

I’m not very well read on this but….

unfitgeezer- david cameron lost a vote to arm those rebels in Syria and then another to Bomb Assad for them, was he turning his back on the UK too?

if DC had got his wish ISIS would probably be even better armed than they currently are. Assad is still not a very nice person it’s just that his opposition, in our governments opinion*, have gotten even nastier so we’ve effectively switched sides. AFAIK there are still innocent civilians being killed by assad’s forces. Some people wish to go over and help the situation. It’s a bit of a grey area when our government can be so fickle, so you’re going to have to do better than “turning their back on the UK”. (that’s not to say there aren’t some right wrong ‘uns going out doing properly illegal stuff aswell)

There are ex british soldiers going out to the general area to train the current “good guys” if we switch sides again are they going to be up on terrorist charges aswell?

*others have come to the same conclusion but gov.uk are the ones (arguably hypocritically) slinging around terrorist charges

Jambalaya – That’s as maybe BUT these girls apparently went to marry ISIS Jihadists. Not FSA, or the kurds or any of the other ‘more moderate’ factions but ISIS which have more of end goal that merely toppling Assad – the establishment of a caliphate with the ultimate objective world wide of wahabi orthodoxy to be achieved by violent means. So they hadn’t just gone to overthrow the regime as ernie asserted but participate in a wider ideological experiment.

It’s a difficult one ideally they should not be allowed back but let’s have some fun.

1. Get them to free tour the country (their own money) giving talks about their experience. If they try positive spin … jail them.
2. Get the media to make them into new comedy entertainment.
3. Confiscate their passport for 30 years.
4. Restrict their travel within UK to certain areas only after no.1.
5. If they commit any of the crime that is ISIS in the UK then give them the prison or feed them pork.

Sod their human rights coz only winners make rules.

🙄

Erm no. US Secretary of State Colin Powell first drew the world’s attention to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi the founder of ISIS when he addressed the U.N. Security Council on February 5, 2003.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s organisation has undergone several name changes but it means little or nothing.

ISIS, or whatever you like to call it, was operating in Syria beheading and murdering innocent people without it being classed as a terrorist organisation by the UK government.

ISIS which have more of end goal that merely toppling Assad but the establishment of a caliphate with the ultimate objective world wide of wahabi orthodoxy to be achieved by violent means

but how were they “recruited”? under the “lets have a caliphate and violently overthrow the west” message or the “look what a complete **** assad is, killing innocent civilians, please help”? ignoring the fact they are stupid teenagers one is a lot more damning than the other.

There wasn’t a uprising in Syria in 2003 WTF are you on about? They were formed in Jordan and foperated in Jordan until the iraq war when they started operating in Iraq

@thestabliser – yes i agree they are going to participate in a wider social experiment. However that experiment isn’t limited to Syria and Iraq there goal is to spread IS throughout African and the Middle East and to encourage jihaid in the West. It’s a social experiment that encourages in fact demands violence.

two little kids.. hideously misguided

I wonder how you would feel if they were your kids?

Us and them??? Them and us, please

Let them back in. At the very least they will be easy sources for the intelligence services to monitor. Better still they may have realised the errors of their ways – whatever they may have been.

I was missing for a bit in Styria last night (Very drunk at AC/DC concert). Can I come back to the uk?

Erm no. US Secretary of State Colin Powell first drew the world’s attention to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi the founder of ISIS when he addressed the U.N. Security Council on February 5, 2003.

Eh? al-Zarqawi was the leader of AQ in Iraq FFS.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s organisation has undergone several name changes but it means little or nothing.

Name changes? Nonsense. IS didn’t exist until a LOT of various groups merged (all of whom were on the UKs terror list). It was not a name change.

There wasn’t a uprising in Syria in 2003 WTF are you on about? They were formed in Jordan and foperated in Jordan until the iraq war when they started operating in Iraq

Well you haven’t being paying attention. Colin Powell used the presence of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq in his 2003 speech to the UN as one of the justifications for attacking Iraq. That was obviously before the Iraq War.

two little kids.. hideously misguided

I wonder how you would feel if they were your kids?
Indeed a very tough question. Some of the parents of the UK Jihadists have disowned their children, they are appalled at their behaviour.

On the issue of letting the girls back in, I said yes, we have a difficult issue. Coulibaly the French extremist who attacked the Kosher supermarket in Paris was clearly under the influence of his wife, she was the real driver of extremism. So “young girl” in of itself is not a criteria to assume they are simply misguided.

Not Syria though eh?

Well you haven’t being paying attention. Colin Powell used the presence of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq in his 2003 speech to the UN as one of the justifications for attacking Iraq.

In that respect he was correct. The issue was the US and it’s allies did not send enough troops and they left too soon.

wikipedia dont lie …….

On 12 October 2006, MSC united with three smaller groups and six Sunni Islamic tribes to form the “Mutayibeen Coalition”. It swore by Allah “…to rid Sunnis from the oppression of the rejectionists (Shi’ite Muslims) and the crusader occupiers, … to restore rights even at the price of our own lives… to make Allah’s word supreme in the world, and to restore the glory of Islam…”.[79][80] A day later, MSC declared the establishment of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), which should comprise Iraq’s six mostly Sunni Arab governorates,[81] with Abu Omar al-Baghdadi being announced as its Emir.[49][82] Al-Masri was given the title of Minister of War within the ISI’s ten-member cabinet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Not Syria though eh?

the borders are pours, just lines on a map and largely ignored by those who live there.

wikipedia dont lie …….

Wikipeadia is one big internet forum with various people posting what they like and is a constant state of flux

yunki – Member

two little kids.. hideously misguided

I wonder how you would feel if they were your kids?

Disowned. We don’t pussy foot around. Simple. 🙄

Not Syria though eh?

OK I can’t be bothered with this bollocks – you win. ISIS was declared an terrorist organisation as soon as it started operations against Assad. If you want to ignore the facts that’s up to you.

wikipedia dont lie ……

It seems the BEEB does….

Under its former name Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isis), it was formed in April 2013, growing out of al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI).

To be fair, i think they’re referring specifically to ISIL which we know as ISIS. Regardless, they are relative newbies in the whole Syria mess.

Wikipeadia is one big internet forum with various people posting what they like and is a constant state of flux

yeah, i was being sarcy, though the quote quoted on wikipedia I quoted was from an FT article

Right so, Jambo, Kimbers, Ernie, you’re telling me,

If I’m getting this right you’re telling me that in 2006 a group that weren’t a terrorist group until they travelled in time from 2011 to 2001 were engaged in a war in Syria and iraq in 2003 against Against President Assad in an uprising that had happened in the past but was yet to occur but they were called something else?

OR

these girls went to marry ISIS fighters who were then killed and then they thought it was a lot shit and now want to come home?

I think both of your options at once stabilizer 😉

what Im saying is that the 2 girls went off to help fight Assad with exactly the same people that David Cameron tried to arm and assist 2 years ago

if you’ve any proof otherwise please share

No – The people David Cameron wanted to arm have largely been knocked off by ISIS* – the FSA. Again not a monolithic homogenous group but a loose association of tribal/ethnic groups who were the first to organise after the peaceful uprising bit had all gone to rat shit. Then the extremists got involved as a competing group to BOTH the FSA and the Syrian army – the Nusra Front. And IQA got in on the back of them and a few others to form ISIS. It’s not that hard is it?

* One of the reasons he failed I’ll grant you is that it would have been impossible to assure that the arms went to the groups they were intended for.

@kimbers understood re Wiki, I did wonder that. The West was trying/did arm the Free Syrian Army. IS hated this even more than Assad and decided to attack the FSA so as to become the dominant anti Assad force. Also attacking the FSA was easy as they where not as well organized/equipped as Assad.

@thestablizer – my view is that various Islamic Jihad organizations existed in Syria/Iraq etc, IS has come to the fore based upon it’s development and success. Whether it was called explicitly ISIL / IS etc who knows.

No – The people David Cameron wanted to arm have largely been knocked off by ISIS*

^ this. In a nutshell. Not that ISIS are any worse than Al Nusra mind you and I remember the debate on here when the “support” to rebels was being discussed and people including ernie were questioning arming Al Nusra even then.
It was TJ who was saying that we really shouldn’t do it, turns out he was bang on.

Whether it was called explicitly ISIL / IS etc who knows.

We do know. They weren’t there until later on.

the Al nusra front, IS precursors had already eclipse the FSA by mid 2013, Cameron was still trying to vote to have arms shipped out to them in september, its obvious that any weapons sent to them and indeed bombing of Assad would aid IS

As I understand it many of teh current soldiers in IS started out in earlier more western friendly brigades, but have become ever more hostile to the west
Cameron was on a tour of the Middle East’s finest dictators with the UK arms industry when the Arab Spring broke out, I wonder how much of the £10 million or so worth of arms we sold to Libya after their revolution is now in the hands of IS?

Youd think wed have learnt that pouring ever more weapons in to the middle east only leads to more war , destablisation and threat of terrorism

Should they be allowed back if they went to marry one of Assads soldiers ? 😕

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Tuesday that he would veto the renewal of a European Union ban on weapons exports to Syria, and hinted that Britain might go it alone in supplying rebels with arms. The Syrian opposition wants the ban lifted, arguing that the rebels would benefit more than the regime (which is already being supplied with arms by Russia and Iran). Cameron appears worried about the rise of the Jabhat al-Nusra radical group in north Syria. Britain has a large Muslim population, some elements of which have radical tendencies, which might affect Cameron’s calculations. He likely wants to train and arm Syrians with views more acceptable to the British mainstream.

Seems counter to your argument.

Source (never heard of it just googled)
http://www.juancole.com/2013/03/running-britain-threatens.html

I dont doubt that the majority of the Syrian population feels abandoned and betrayed by the west but probably more because we didn’t bomb Assad when it looked like we might. (we shouldn’t have in my view it’s just a big mess and UK/US stood on the sidelines for the first two years shouting warm words of encouragement has had at best no effect)

Al Nusra were not IS precursors. Al Badhdadi may have claimed that they were, but AN stayed with AQ (who IS had split with – hence becoming IS).
Religious agreements aside, all of this is mainly due to individuals’ power struggles. They all want to be king. No different to the boardroom or domestic politics really.

Youd think wed have learnt that pouring ever more weapons in to the middle east only leads to more war , destablisation and threat of terrorism

Agreed. We should keep well out of it.

I dont doubt that the majority of the Syrian population feels abandoned and betrayed by the west but probably more because we didn’t bomb Assad when it looked like we might.

Yes the West should only bomb the other sides Muslims not our Muslims

How would they be dealt with under Sharia? Do that…