Mini Hi-Fi

There seem to be a lot of Hi-Fi fans on here, so please can I delve into your collective knowledge?

I want an all-in-one system for my studio – don’t want to go to the expense of a separates system as it’s generally played at low volume.

Listen mostly to DAB and CDs, so I’ve been looking at this Marantz system from Richer Sounds.

My thinking is that the CD will be spot on quality-wise, and I don’t need the power of a separate amp etc.

Any thoughts, suggestions or alternatives from the audiophiles?

Also, if anyone can recommend a bookshelf speaker that would suit my needs – as I said, generally low volumes in a space 12m x 6m… Don’t want to spend much more than 400 quid on the lot with speakers…

Thanks in advance!

No suggestion? Is asking about all-in-one systems the Hi-Fi equivalent of asking about Apollo mountain bikes? 😀

Blimey – that does look like pretty good value.

If you are hoping to get some speakers as well for £400 all in, it might be worth trawling eBay for something.

B&W DM601’s (although these seem to go for ~£100 on there)
Missions – you’ll struggle to pick a bad model.
Perhaps some Mordaunt Shorts (like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mordaunt-Short-MS20i-Pearl-IMMACULATE-/270703540697?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3f073039d9#ht_1074wt_1139 )

Kef Coda 7’s are great speakers and are sensitive so will work well with a lower powered amp. There some bargain ones on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KEF-Audio-Coda-7-Speaker-/270705473904?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3f074db970#ht_500wt_1156

I know you said bookshelf speakers, but I’ve got a pair of these TDL floor standers: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TDL-RTL2-Floor-Standing-Speakers-Rosewood-Finish-/320656165850?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item4aa898cbda#ht_500wt_1156
They are pretty compact and put out a big sound. If you are local to these and can pick up, they’d be a bargain!!

Obviously, buying stuff like speakers off eBay could be a bit risky but you could end up with a bargain.

ALternatively, Richer Sounds do some fairly decent small bookshelf speakers. If you are buying it from a store, ask them to recommend something and have a listen.
First speakers I bought were Wharfedale Diamonds and they were perfectly good, so the Diamond 9.0’s on the Richer Sounds website would probably be worth a punt…..

If you’re looking at RS, then the Denon (DENON DM38DAB) all in one always gets good reviews. A pair of the Wharfedale Diamond 9s would give you a nice little system for about £250!

I got a Onkyo all in one system with tannoy mk1 custom speakers 2-3 years ago from superfi, John lewis had the same one but with standard speakers for the same price £300 ish (my mum ended up buying that one as she like mine so munch).

I love mine, it got really good reviews when it came out and it sounds great to me. I do not have a spereates system to compare it to but am very happy with what i have.

As with all systems especially all in one there are short commings of different types with each brand/model go out and try some and see what you like the sound of.

good luck

Stumpy, thanks for the reply. I’m based in Lancs though, so too far for a pick-up… Cheers though, I’ll ask if I can try some of the ones you recommended.

The Denon does look very good value, would the Marantz be noticeably better?

I doubt it, but go and have a listen and see what you think 🙂

“Proper audiophiles” won’t know about low end stuff!

I’d say separates like woody says are likely to sound better but not be so domestically friendly.

Speakers are crucial so not having to buy crap ones that come with a system is a bonus – you can listen to a few.

If you can place the speakers well on stands or decent surfaces this will help a lot.

cynic-al – Member

“Proper audiophiles” won’t know about low end stuff!

I figured that much, but when I click on the ‘spec’ menu, all I see is a collection of random numbers and letters! I was hoping someone in the know might be able to point out any relevant shortfalls etc.
🙂

Seriously, if it’s to go in a little room where you just want to listen to some music, just buy the one you like the look of the most. I daresay there’ll be bugger all difference in “the sound”! 🙂

Buy the cheapest and spend the rest on some nice whisky to sip whilst you listen 🙂

I’m thinking the Denon might be better and spend the rest on some much better speakers…

And gin. Never did like whisky! 😀

Drop a post with what you end up with, im after a similar system at some point but just not at the point where I want it now

Denon have a habit of making good little ‘all-in-one’ systems with surprisingly capable power amps.

There used to be a shop in London that demoed and sold an LS3/5a system with audiopro subwoofer that was driven by one of these lifestyle systems. He would first demo an expensive setup with Quad electrostatics and big Quad power amps – with piano and drum solos and classical, and then demo the denon/ls3/5a system. Nearly everyone would buy the denon/ls3/5a system then and there – it performed so well.

I have bought more recent denon systems like this for installing in restaurants and they do work well.

So I would buy the Denon and then match it to some better speakers, which you could do later when your budget has recovered.

Sounds like a plan, get the Denon and have around £250 to spend on speakers and cables…

Do cables make a difference? 😉

Do cables make a difference?

they can do… 😉

I think I’ll ask to have a listen to these, these, and possibly these…

cool – the HFN reviewer Ken Kessler used to rave about the Diamonds (but what does that mean…).

It is likely that one pair will have a better synergy with the Denon than the others.

Just beware that if you listen in the shop you should try to listen in a quiet room, like a demo room – and using the Denon. If you listen to them in the normal shop the levels of background noise will be such that you will run more volume than you would normally, and the system will sound different/better – so you may then be dissappointed when you get home and run it at normal sound levels.

Also beware that it is likely that the speakers will have different impedances/efficiencies, so if you listen to one pair and then just connect the next pair they might sound better purely because their greater efficiency is equivalent to turning the volume up – and people will nearly always think that something that is louder sounds better (your ears have different EQ at different volumes).

Therefore try to equalise the volume levels – you can do one run of comparisons where you take note of the settings on the volume knob where you think each pair sound as loud – then do another run of comparisons with the sales guy setting the levels as he changes the speakers.

The second run of comparisons would be best with your eyes closed and just getting the salesman to change the speakers and adjust the volume without telling you which speakers they were. This avoids you getting swayed by the speaker aesthetics or colour – Wharfedale did a test years ago with three identical sets of diamonds, one set painted red, one white, and one yellow. The listening panel said the red pair were warm, the yellow were lean, and the white pair sounded bright!

I have heard improvements going from the bog standard interconnect to something half decent – but on this level of kit it shouldn’t matter. For speaker cable the Van Damme 2.5mm blue jacketed stuff at about £2.5 a metre works well and is all you need:

http://www.clearly-av.co.uk/V525060.html

so don’t let RS sell you anything more expensive.

Get this Sony for <£100 and future proof with a £200 ipod. Absolute bargain. Good bass and reasonably loud with no distortion. It’s rrp was £400 and my local Sony store still have it stickered on sale at £299!

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I’ve just spoken to a very helpful chap at Richer Sounds and he suggested that this Onkyo unit for an extra 20 quid is a far better bet.

He also suggested the Mordaunt Short Aviano 1XRs would be a better choice than Aviano 1s, but the Wharfdales would be his choice for lower volumes.

Going to go down tomorrow and have a listen – thanks for the listening and cabling advice TurnerGuy, it’s very helpful. 🙂

Vita Audio R4 – all in one?

Be a bit wary of Richer Sounds ‘advice’.

I have found that they are very keen to push certain brands that they either own or have large stocks of. I’m not saying ignore them, but just take it with a pinch of salt.

I demo’d the TDL RTL II’s that I eventually bought alongside some Mordaunt Short MS25i’s. The Mordaunt Short sounded good, but a bit weedy compared to the TDL’s. The bloke was adamant that I went for the Mordaunt Shorts to the point of being really pushy.

Just found this review of the MS Aviano 1XR…..
http://www.mordauntshort.com/assets/documents/Mordaunt_Aviano1XR_web.pdf

which also mentions some Monitor Audio Bronze BX2. Mmmm, they look nice:
http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/bronze-bx/bx2/your-speaker

The Monitor Audio’s are nice & sensitive so a mini system would drive them very easily.

The onkyo may well be a better bet, they have a good rep as well.

On this thread a guy had problems with his Denon and changed it for the Onkyo:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/hi-fi-systems-separates/1278872-denon-dm38dab-any-questions-6.html

And check the web price as sometimes RS charge more in the shop, a bit like Evans…

Don’t forget to budget for oxygen-free cabling with gold connectors, not to mention isolation stands/pads for your monitors.

Nothing to do with sound quality but if you want to be able to plug a USB stick, your phone or whatever into the USB port then try it when you demo the systems in the shop. Some have horrible file navigation.

As for speaker cable I wouldn’t use skinny bell wire but in my opinion lower end speaker cable is just fine. Check out the top end stuff though as it is laughable what people can be persuaded to pay, I think you could sell some of those fools a mountain bike with only one gear hahahahahah 😉

No, no, cables must be oxygen free. Think of teh children, man!

In fairness Stumpy, the guy sounded spot on with his advice, and looking at that link to AV Forums, it sounds like the Denon – whilst an excellent product – perhaps uses a lot of the older technology of its predecessors.

I’m definitely warming to the Onkyo though, the iPod interface and navigation looks excellent…

Denon do have a habit of mising some feature in their lower end kit which should have been there – my mate bought a reasonable Denon DVD player to watch DVD of music concerts on his expensive system – the ‘lip-sync’ delay is awful and there is no way of controlling this unless you use a Denon AV amp, a serious downgrade from the amps he is using.

And this hiss the guy reports doesn’t sound good (literally and subjectively).

That cheap cable I recommended is OFC, so that is ok…

Gold plugs get used because they don’t tarnish – silver would be better but would tarnish quicker.

Update: Spent most of the morning in Richer Sounds and tested the Onkyo unit which is absolutely brilliant for the money.

Tried it with the budget Wharfedale Diamond 9.0s, the Morduant Short Aviano-1XRs, and Wharfedale Diamond 10.1s.

The little Wharfs are great value at 60 quid, but were obviously limited, lacking a lot of mid range and deep bass. Probably fine with a sub or as part of a surround system, but sounded quite ‘budget’. Probably not much better than what comes with most complete mini setups.

The Morduant Shorts at £199 were lovely, really demonstrated the quality of the Onkyo with a CD and had an almost studio clarity. Really zingy in the mid range and a clear shrill treble. Almost too clean a sound for my taste.

So, I settled on the Diamond 10.1s. They have a really rich, velvety tone, far ‘warmer’ that the Morduants and gorgeous for low level background music.

I’ve just set the lot up, bi-wired, and it sounds superb. Total cost around £380, and it sounds easily as good as my separates. I’m seriously thinking about some of the 10.1 towers for home, they’re absolutely stunning.

So thanks for the advice, genuinely very helpful. I think I’ve got a far better setup than if I’d gone shopping blind.

Cheers chaps!

Not entirely relevant but my folks have a Denon system thing like above from about 6 years ago which sounds fantastic. The speakers that came with it are Denon branded on the front but were actually made by Mission and have the Mission badge on the back.

I thought you could still get the latest incarnation of this system… but maybe not?

I looked at the Denon unit Dunc, it’s a bit cheaper, and by all accounts is excellent, but the iPod interface on the Onkyo is better and it seems to have slightly more modern technology. The current Denon is just an updated version of the one your folks probably have. Brilliant kit for the money though.
I also thought the Onkyo had the slight edge on sound, very little in it though…

I’ve got an Onkyo in the kitchen.

Cheap as chips now.

http://www.hyperfi.co.uk/onkyo-cr525ukd-high-performance-mini-with-usbdabcdsilver-p-543.html

I bought the denon one before christmas for in the bedroom, mainly for the dab but ipod compatibility was a bonus. It sounds great and is fairly straightforward to use. A good feature of the denon for bedroom use is that it has an alarm and the display can be dimmed or switched off. The ipod interface is ok (goes through the normal usb lead) but I have found that the sound levels are a lot higher fromt he ipod as source than the radio or cd for some reason.