[Closed] Merge in turn

They're the knights of the road.
You are a serf.

+1 the bastards do it on the A303. The dual carriageways are there to allow overtaking. Selfish morons.

Gives me the hump too, road narrows means here- not 500m back down the road

some people just just to important to queue.

some people just just to important to queue.

Not sure what you meant here, I must admit.

im with the wagons. nothing infurates me more than bellends in bmw's screaming past the cue to cut in 200yds later on and cause everyone to pause while we wait for the idiot to get let in.

tracknicko - Member

im with the wagons. nothing infurates me more than bellends in bmw's screaming past the cue to cut in 200yds later on and cause everyone to pause while we wait for the idiot to get let in.

that's not what he's talking about. 2 lanes of traffic, 1 lane closed further up the road. The idea is that both lanes are full, then take it in turn to merge into the open lane - it keeps the roads/islands <--- back that way clearer.

Where is TJ when you need him?

where s this mythical world you live in where everyone queues in 2 lanes and takes turn to go through, i've never been there, i live in a place where people scream right to the end of the closed lane and then arrogantly barge in

[img] [/img]

Here he is TSY

(Community Speed Watch)

tracknicko - Member
im with the wagons. nothing infurates me more than bellends in bmw's screaming past the cue to cut in 200yds later on and cause everyone to pause while we wait for the idiot to get let in.

If you applied that to all places where the lanes reduce from 2 to 1 then you may as well just get rid of the 2nd lane altogether. The point is that its 2 lanes untill the merge point not where the lorry driver decieds it is.
If every one does it properly and let people merge in turn then the traffic normal moves fast.

im with the wagons. nothing infurates me more than bellends in bmw's screaming past the cue to cut in 200yds later on and cause everyone to pause while we wait for the idiot to get let in.

tracknico, and JoB

You're missing the whole point though, you shouldn't be queuing back 200 yards in a single lane, you should be merging AT the restriction (at low speeds, at high you get in earlier). If people drove properly there would be no room for people to race up the inside, and if you've left room for people to race up the inside you're not making proper use of the space available and THEY are the ones doing the correct thing, the fact that you chose to queue miles back from the merge point is your own idiotic move. The highway code specifically tells you to stay in lane until the merge point, not earlier, then merge in turn. If both lanes queue correctly and merge at the end point, no-one benefits unfairly and no-one loses out, and the road flows better and stops the junctions behind being blocked.

[img] [/img]

this really annoys me - some sit in a line for miles -are they stupid? Hold on they must be.

GRRRRRR

Quite true coffeeking, but I think they need to change the psychology of the merge for this to happen though.
Rather than having the current road signs where you see one lane merging into an existing one, they need some temporary cone chicane so that the two lanes merge into a new lane, that is neither of the existing lanes. That way there won't be the urge to change into the non disappearing lane early.

Easier said than implemented though 🙂

Good idea Ian, people think that the stretch of road immediately in front of them is theirs so why should people push in and use it.

nah i dont buy it. if everyone merges as soon as they see the roadworks sign saying the lane is shut, then you merge at pace, and you never have to slow to go through the gap.

if everyone nails it down both lanes, at some point someone will have to come to a complete stop to let someone else in.

I'm currently *this* close to hitting send to the HQ of the company that the driver worked for, with a little request that they be reminded of the highway code before their next trip out. I can't decide if that's taking the stress too far or if just writing it has eased my annoyance 🙂

coffeeking is right. I used to think the people leaving it to the last minute before pulling over were bulbends but now being older and wiser I appreciate that having both lanes used up to the restriction AND MERGING IN TURN is the way to go.

I agree with you. But am not saying anymore than that after the 'other' thread.

ah well. maybe one day i'll see the light then. but not yet.

oh i completely understand the "merge in turn" concept and how it should work according to the highway code, but in the real world...

nah i dont buy it. if everyone merges as soon as they see the roadworks sign saying the lane is shut, then you merge at pace, and you never have to slow to go through the gap.

That can only work [i]if[/i] the traffic in the two lane section is less than the capacity of the single lane. If there is more traffic than this in the two lane section then there won't be enough room to merge at speed make what you suggest impossible assuming that your not going to allow the traffic speed to double.

nah i dont buy it. if everyone merges as soon as they see the roadworks sign saying the lane is shut, then you merge at pace, and you never have to slow to go through the gap.

Wrong. There's no "buying it" needed, its a proven fact and many different techniques were tested by the department of transport before they settled on the best one to include in the highway code in 2007. You can merge at the same pace whether it's back from the narrowing or not, all you're doing is creating a fake merging point earlier in the road, meaning the tailbacks are longer and block other junctions, nothing is "faster" about it.

But on the thought of speed through the narrowing:
Think about it, you can only fit so many cars down a road with safe stopping distances. The higher the speed, the larger the gaps, the fewer cars you get through per minute, meaning more queueing for everyone to get through a gap quickly, instead of going slowly for a short space of time then returning to normal.

oh i completely understand the "merge in turn" concept and how it should work according to the highway code, but in the real world...

That's kind of the point Jo, we are in the real world, merging in turn DOES work in the real world if idiots don't screw it up by blocking lanes and getting over WAY too early. The only reason the "real world" you see is different, is because you're defeatist and so is everyone else in their greedy rush to get somewhere without thinking it through sensibly. (no offence intended, I used to think that way too before I had a discussion with a chap who designs the road layouts)

tracknicko - Member
nah i dont buy it. if everyone merges as soon as they see the roadworks sign saying the lane is shut, then you merge at pace, and you never have to slow to go through the gap.

ha ha. epic use of 'wrong'

perhaps ill leave this discussion here with the infallible in charge.

i agree 'merge in turn' works better, but they need to have more obvious signs and better education for all driver about, like signs saying 'use BOTH lanes until cones' or something.

At the moment most people queue early on as they know that most people wont let them in when the cones start, cos the queueing people class them as queue jumping tw*ts

ha ha. epic use of 'wrong'

perhaps ill leave this discussion here with the infallible in charge.

Far from infallible, just grumpy this morning 🙂

meeeee- glad they're finally starting to do it:
[img] [/img]

spot on coffeeking with regards using the 2nd lane. theres absolutely no need to sit and queue in just one lane. hence there are two lanes open until the merge point.

In New Zealand they 'merge like a zip'

The problem is with attitudes, everyone seems to think theyre right and other drivers are somehow trying to usurp their rightful place on the road. If people could just lighten up things would be more pleasant.
Next time you can, be nice to another driver, youll feel better and often youll see them be nice to someone else further on.

Next time you can, be nice to another driver, youll feel better and often youll see them be nice to someone else further on.

That's actually very true, it seems to be contagious!

where s this mythical world you live in where everyone queues in 2 lanes and takes turn to go through, i've never been there

Play nicely out there!

Coffeeking is correct; the single carriage way section is what limits the cars per hour rate, not the behaviour of the drivers approaching the narrowing of the lanes.

A lane reduction at normal driving speed works well because the faster vehicles in the second lane are able to merge efficiently. Tail backs occur when the volume of traffic to too great for the single carriage way. The irate second lane drivers are failing to adapt to the changing driving conditions created by the tail back, and the common courtesy and social convention that governs the acceptable behaviour in a queue i.e not pushing to the front.

Allowing the second lane to merge freely in to near stationary traffic causes problems because the queuing traffic is moving backwards relative to the second lane. Sadly both sets of drivers are exhibiting a disappointing ‘me’ first attitude to the driving conditions.

I'm a new member and joined originally to comment on the 29er nonsense thread. However, I've been well and truly sucked into these driving threads - wow there are some ill-informed drivers...

A bit of background. I own 6 bikes (3 road (fixie/winter/summer), 3 mtb (full-sus/ss rigid/geared rigid(all 26 inch wheels!))), a motorbike and a car (both BMWs, as it happens, because in my opinion they make the best vehicles - simple). I used to be a cycle courier so I consider myself to be very aware of other road users and I am keenly aware of cyclists when driving. I've been driving over 11 years and currently commute 90 miles a day mostly on motorbike but occasionally by car (sometimes by bike and train).

There is absolutely no reason that keen cyclists (like me) shouldn't be interested in driving and like making progress when driving. Because I like to make progress I like to do perfectly legal things like overtake on A/B roads, flash people to get out of the way when they are hogging the outside lane, filter through traffic on my motorbike etc. Yes you do get there quicker and no it's not dangerous (when done responsibly). I have chilled significantly since I was a silly teenager but still like to drive quickly.

On undertaking, many countries positively allow undertaking so it is not in itself dangerous. What is dangerous is people pulling in without checking the inside lane is clear. Personally, I always check inside before pulling in as it is a pretty sensible thing to do. If drivers don't then any accident is as much their fault as the undertaker's. I, like others, get extremely frustrated at people hogging the outside lane. It's particularly annoying in Scotland as most of our motorways only have 2 lanes! On my motorbike I give them a flash or 2, wait for a few seconds and if they don't pull over then I undertake. It is quite safe.

On merging in-turn, yes you absolutely should merge at the cones!! If the road-traffic people wanted you to merge 1/2 mile before the merge then that's where the merge would be! It's inexplicable that people don't grasp this. I agree that a sign to the effect of 'USE BOTH LANES UNTIL MERGE' would be useful to inform the thickos of how to drive. A zip effect, at the merge itself, is what 'MERGE IN-TURN' actually means. I quite enjoy driving up the outside lane past the clowns in the queue; it gets you there quicker!

In short, driving sensibly is not driving like a cock, it is driving as the law was intended.

Hey-ho, off to wind up some 29er riders now....

Seriously, good forum for the mtb chat; I look forward to sharing biking stories/experiences in due course.

Allowing the second lane to merge freely in to near stationary traffic causes problems because the queuing traffic is moving backwards relative to the second lane

IF everyone merges at the same point as me I will be happy!!!!

+1 for the lorry drivers.
Merging in turn is great in theory & works if everyone does it properly, but you usually get some t**t braking like hell & "merging" at the last possible oportunity - if you are in a truck you've got a lump of gears to go through & use more fuel in stop start traffic so it's better to keep trundling along rather than stop starting caused by the late brake brigade. BTW - you joined a queue behind the lorry & got to the obstruction behind the lorry so what is your gripe exactly?

Gosh farty, I read your entire post. I usually scan the long ones. "Driving over 11 years" - is that supposed to be a long time then? 😉

Come to think of it the lorry driver was actually merging in turn - just the drivers in front had already merged some distance before the lane restriction 😆

DezB, not especially. It was a statement of fact, not a boast.

Another vote for merging at the cones, in turn, Antipodean style, no fuss no hassle. Why for a queue 2 miles back from the obstruction ?

I always drive right to the front and merge across, its not rude its common sense.

I sometimes think peopke like to find things to get all annoyed and self-righteous about so they can make out they have better manners than others.

I also undertake (sounding the horn loudly I should add) and even shock horror make a shielded turn on red every so often when I forget, usually at night in the city. I know these are both illegal but so far have managed to avoid a 17 car pile up.

so in summary the signs should read, "merge in turn, but dont leave it to the last second you ****in bellend"?

Ahhhh ok, not realised the merge thing - think that pic up there may be the first "merge in turn" sign I've ever seen - you learn something new everyday and in future won't be getting line with the other sheep. But what about queues for exit slip roads? Can we still abuse those who race down the middle lane then cut in at the last possible moment? 🙂

Drove south of Perth a few years ago on the busy bit of road that goes to Glasgow forget the name, anyways there were road words and there was a sign up saying "don't merge too early it creates obstructions" then signs saying "merge in 300 yards", "merge in 100 yards" etc. For the Numpties.

+1 for the lorry drivers.
Merging in turn is great in theory & works if everyone does it properly, but you usually get some t**t braking like hell & "merging" at the last possible oportunity - if you are in a truck you've got a lump of gears to go through & use more fuel in stop start traffic so it's better to keep trundling along rather than stop starting caused by the late brake brigade.

The inconveniences of driving a lorry are not other peoples problem, as unpleasant as it may be, it's no excuse for driving like an idiot. I've driven a wagon (fuel tanker actually), only around a carpark, but I am aware of how hard they are to drive (though this was a a skip wagon, so much smaller). But I'm also aware that it only requires 1 gear to comfortably reach the speeds of the queue we were in, so it wasn't a factor in his thinking. Likewise its not good that people dart in at the very last second (though you SHOULD queue up to the cones), but that doesnt excuse other peoples bad driving.

BTW - you joined a queue behind the lorry & got to the obstruction behind the lorry so what is your gripe exactly?

The fact that directly behind me a junction was gridlocked because the single lane of queuing went right back through the junction and beyond, meaning no-one could get out of the other arm of the junction. The fact that that huge amount of wasted space meant that dozens of other people were inconvenienced due to the lorry driver being upset that he chose to drive a slow vehicle for his job (but it's not just lorry drivers that do it), and I wasn't specifically arguing about the one lorry driver, I was moaning at all the idiots sat in the single-lane queue.

People queing in one lane and not merging at the merge point are simple not thinking about it logically and are working on "me first, I'm in the queue now" mentality, not thinking about it rationally. As I say, it's been simulated, tested in real life, in operation for years and is known to be the best method of keepign congestion low while maintaining traffic flow rate.

Come to think of it the lorry driver was actually merging in turn - just the drivers in front had already merged some distance before the lane restriction

Merge in turn should be at the cones, but common courtesy says you should do what everyone else in the queue is doing so if everyone merges a mile up, it's polite to do so yourself.

However, I don't give a flying fu(k about politeness. If someone is blocking the right hand lane, to force people to queue with them, I'll undertake them and flick them the Vees.

If nobody is blocking the lane I'll hurtle up to the cones, pulling the old 'one hand shank' at all those idiots who are queing before they have to.... suckers.

Merge in turn should be at the cones, but common courtesy says you should do what everyone else in the queue is doing so if everyone merges a mile up, it's polite to do so yourself.

Not sure its common courtesy, more like sheep mentality 🙂

but common courtesy says you should do what everyone else in the queue is doing so if everyone merges a mile up, it's polite to do so yourself.

& just how much thanks do you think the lorry driver would have got if they'd trundled up to the head of the queue & "merged" just before the cones?

That happened to me earlier this week. I didn't really think anything of it to be honest and just let him/her in.

OK on my way home theres a section of dual carriageway which ends at a roundabout, then single carriageway after.

Theres often a long queue in the inside lane before the roundabout.

Using the theory above, people should drive up the outside lane too and merge on the roundabout? This sometimes happens and means the roundabout becomes blocked with merging cars, no-one can enter it from the left and everyone gets cross.

What is teh forum advice in this instance?

Using the theory above, people should drive up the outside lane too and merge on the roundabout?

Drive up the right hand lane signalling to turn right, one complete lap of the roundabout and voila, you're merging correctly.

LOL @ the if you see a queue then join it mentality 🙂 Must be a British thing

& just how much thanks do you think the lorry driver would have got if they'd trundled up to the head of the queue & "merged" just before the cones?

Ahh I see, so we dictate traffic laws by how much thanks people give now, rather than the best way of working? How odd. I personally have absolutely no problem with letting a wagon merge. In fact I'd have sod all chance of stopping it even if I wanted. If I was a child I might want to.

Using the theory above, people should drive up the outside lane too and merge on the roundabout? This sometimes happens and means the roundabout becomes blocked with merging cars, no-one can enter it from the left and everyone gets cross.

What is teh forum advice in this instance?

Use whichever lanes serve the exit (hard to tell without seeing it!). If it has 1 lane exit there is only one correct lane to be in on the roundabout, and likely only one lane before the roundabout. This is just a natural pinchpoint, queueing in other lanes would create restrictions to other directions, and stopping on the roundabout is bad driving anyway as you shouldnt enter a junction without seeing the exit is clear. It is an entirely different situation to the original one I posed.

aracer - Member

but common courtesy says you should do what everyone else in the queue is doing so if everyone merges a mile up, it's polite to do so yourself.

Baaaaaa! Baaaaaa!

If you are stuck in a line of traffic you can have fun with this by slowly going from side to side in your lane and watch the cars behind do the same 🙂

you don't really see many merge in turn signs - despite those multimillion pound reminders to check you've button yr pants

and anyway its should be [i]maintain distance[/i] and merge in turn
like most traffic problems its all the tailgating that causes the problem

a couple of 2 lane to single lane sections near me with signs counting down the merge that you can see from 2 miles away they are that big but some cars will insist on passing someone driving 2miles an hour slower than they are and then force into the car length gap that smallbrained people think is an appropriate distance to drive behind the car in front
hey hoh everyone has to brake

as to roundabouts that merge to one lane wshat really gets me is when people use the right turn lane and then stop dead somewhere short of the roundabout as they try to force their way into the left lane and no its not ignorance of the lane markings/local knowledge

think there was a guy who was banned from using the tyne tunnel because he constantly did it and it showed on the cameras and being a private road he was made an example of

Sorry I wasn't here to answer earlier I have been doing manual labour all day. I know how you guys need my wisdom on driving issues

IMO merge in turn means as you are near or at the coned off area - not half a mile before. sheep all going into the single lane a mile early increases congestion.

Damn - shouldn't have nailed my colours to the mast so early. Now TJ's agreed with me I can't argue with him!

You must have been right for once 😉

So why the M4 bus lane, the theory was that displacing the issue of merging from the flyover to a junction back (J3) up the road, where traffic leaves the motorway would alleviate congestion. It doesn't seem to work though it just moved the problem to junction 3!

Doesn't matter how many instructions you put up. The morons that queue forever can't see past the end of their bonnet anyway. Now if their satnavs told them to merge in turn....

or to move over from the middle lane...

or even better drive off a cliff.

My cousin is a traffic cop, I called him about this last night, apparently people regularly get done for obstructing the highway or something like that for blocking the outside lane on the motorway. They catch them on the CCTV and send a patrol car as it causes much longer tailbacks than the system is designed to cope with.

You must have been right for once