May I pick your brains….chain noise

Evening all, right getting a little fed up of an annoying grinding/clicking rumbling noise I can feel through my drivetrain.

Newish 10 speed cassette
newish xt deraileur
New mech hanger
Gears aligned within an inch of their lives! And repeated more times than I care to remember (following park tools guide). Gear shifts are perfect.
Bottom bracket seems ok, cleaned and tightened and spins freely with no noise
Chainset looks fine to me
Hope pro 2 hub cleaned and greased
Vault pedals cleaned and lubed
Wheel hubs spin freely

Pretty sure chain not rubbing on front mech as grumbling noise can be felt when chain line at its straightest and chain running in middle of front cage (ie no metal to metal contact).

It’s all 10 speed stuff, kmc chain <200 miles on it.

Really a bit stumped! The grinding feels like the chain is rubbing on the inside face of rear gears but it’s not (well on the stand anyway). Seems to happen under light load so kind of rules out deflection of rear triangle. Possibly gets worse with water spray but this may be coincidental.

Any other suggestions of what to look for? I have a new bottom bracket on its way as maybe it’s only grinding under load (but spins perfect on the stand with chain off)

Other thoughts point to a stiff link in the chain but it’s new, cannot feel any and had it soaking in engine oil to see if this helped – nope.

Mech is twisted in/out, causing rubbing of the chain/jocky wheels. Try a new hanger, or check the one you have for alignment.

New hanger has not fixed the issue – alignment looks spot on. Thanks though for the reply!

Are the jockey wheels ok? Do they spin and are the teeth all fine? Also does the chain go through the cage correctly? I once fed it so it constantly rubs the little notch thing in the middle of the cage, it took me ages to realise how stupid I was.

Tried it in the stand, pedalling with rr brake on?

Ha! Yeah been there done that! Was the first thing I checked 🙂

Jockey wheels spin fine.

Does seem to be worse when I go through a big puddle or muddy bit….maybe that points to something?

I am stumped – everything looks fine and is fine when turning cranks over in the stand. It seems to be load related, happens in lower 5/6 gears. Does feel like a stiff link or cage rub but I am 99% sure its not.

don’t really want to start swapping stuff over but I guess this may be my only option to eliminate possibilities. Or just turn up my music and ignore (easier said than Done as I am sure you lot appreciate)

Al – no not yet – good idea though will try that tomorrow

Check your chain is fed through the rear mech on the correct side of the guide plate between the 2 jockey wheels. From an engineering perspective it’s a poor design since you can easily get it wrong.

AL, My money is on that one! I’ve even done that myself after a chain brake out on a ride.

Guys – nope it’s not that 🙁 wish it was to be honest! See a few posts above (I-ache)

Oh and thanks 🙂 Keep the suggestions coming! I don’t want to admit defeat in this one 🙂

Ensure the B-tension screw is correctly adjusted so that the top jockey wheel doesn’t hit the teeth of the cassette cogs in any gear combination.

Might be a daft question but are you sure it’s definitely drive train related?

If it gets worse going through puddles or muddy bits it sounds like it could be either disc or tyre related. Is the wheel aligned perfectly in the frame so the tyre doesn’t come too close to the frame at any point?

Does the disc (I’m assuming you have disc brakes) have plenty of clearance between both pads for the full rotation? and if so is the caliper completely clear of grit, etc?

B screw is a good one, 6mm clearance between jockey and largest sprocket or worn chainring perhaps. My road bike was making an unfatherable noise and I only figured it out owing to shadows on a sunny day. The worn chainring was constantly picking the chain up (chainsuck) then dropping it. It only did it under load, not in the stand.

Waderider – pulley set at 5mm spacing (from lowest gear) as per the setup guide.

Pinkster – yeah good point and I don’t really know…it feels like the grumbling is coming from rear derailer but I guess the frame could be carrying the vibration from anywhere! Spinning wheel in drop outs with chain off throws up nothing. Plenty of clearance on pads and my pencil and masking tape dial gauge says my rim is as true as it can be.

The camber frame – sorry never mentioned what bike it is! Is known to have a flexy rear end 🙂 and chain does jump of the highest gear when chain crossed and I slam the power down.

Dave h – could be related to chain rings – they are the oldest part of the drivetrain. No noticeable wear though and no probs with shifting or chain suck/lifting….

Thanks 🙂

You sure? Unlikely I know but what I had was undetectable in the stand or on the bike without strong sun shadows. 9 speed chainrings? Swapping parts one at a time is the only answer I guess!

Not sure Dave 🙂 to be honest! I will keep a close eye on it tomorrow now you mention it. No chance of shadows though!

Will check the b screw again…and check alignment again for my own sanity.

Oh – actually, just remembered….it is a kmc chain…I remember some shimano chains are directional….I think the kmc can be run in any orientation but can anyone confirm that?

Maybe it’s time for a belt driven single speed !

Sounds like the exact same problem ive just had, i run 1×10 and i had new xtr shifter,mech, cable, chain,xt cassette, and moved from an mrp mini g2 sl chain device to a ethirteen xcx top only guide my chainring was ever so slightly hooked and even the slightest bit of tension in the drive train meant it was lifting the chain up as far as it could, then as is was eventually dragged off and rearwards it was clicking like a ratchet sound like when your chain is trying to climb up to another cog on your cassette. Drove me mental, new chainring sorted it

I would guess if the rings were running fine with the old chain up until you replaced the cassette it’s either graunchy on the new cassette (even with it being 200 miles) or the chain may have had a few hose downs/not lubed well inside and the moving parts inside are spitting the dummy under load.

I would go for the not so new chain on that new cassette! Can you try a new chain? You’ll be buying one sooner or later anyways.

Why did you soak it in engine oil? Was it pretty dry looking before or? Soak it in finer oil that penetrates under the rollers and ride it for a few easy hours to see how it goes.

Bloody annoying Hilton isn’t it !!! I will make sure I keep a close eye on the chainrings tomorow then! However, the noise/grumbling is present on all 3 chain rings 🙁 its unlikely they have all worn the same…thus again points to something In my rear end (should think before I type sometimes) ha

Martin yeah my first though was the chain …it was a brand new chain sourced from ze Germans (not that that has anything to do with it!) so kind of dismissed this. I have never washed the chain in anything – just a wipe down with a rag and re-lube.

Was soaked in 30w engine oil – fairly thin for motor oil but may not be thin enough to get in guts of chain.

Could well be a stiff link or maybe the powerlink??? I have had the chain off say x5 times with the same power link …..thinking about it – could it be this???

Slx chain set?

Present in all three rings? Maybe relace the cheapest ring and see if that ring goes quiet? I was seething with mine i couldnt believe id dropped all that cash and my bike sounded like a bag of spanners if only id test ridden it up the road first instead of driving an hour + to ride cannock, and then it pi$$ed it down for my entire ride haha i was ready to sell it and take up knitting by the time i got home

when you talk of puddles/water spray making it worse it sways me towards the older chain on the new casette every time. Did you say that the chain was running fine on the chainrings before you fitted these new parts elsewhere?

Xt rear cassette, xt deraileur, yes – slx chain rings….

Feel your pain Hilton …maybe I will just turn my music up and lie with it until it gets
Worse or something breaks.

Martin – chain was replaced pretty much same time as the cassette – well within say two weeks (or 200 miles for me)…I commute to work 22 miles a day on my full sus camber ! Crazy but it’s a bloody good workout 🙂

o.k. It’ll be good to find out what it is. Good luck!

Thanks mate 🙂 will update this thread When I find out what the hell it is!! Got some time over the weekend to have a good look.

I had this on my old trek. With slx chain set. Swapped the rings to some xt ones that I had and it stopped.

Is it a 10sp powerlink? The 9sp ones are a little wider.

My moneys on cable tension being a tad out.
I had the same problem with an XT mech XT block and KMC chain. All new and seemed to shift fine but realy bad grinding on the top half of the block when the chain got dirty/wet.

Messed about with the b tension screw thinking it was that but it made little difference.
Put a bit more tension on the cable and the grinding went away.

I had a similar thing with a number of different bikes/setups and was always much worse after having been through a puddle. Turns out the lube I was using just wasn’t heavy enough, it would get washed out of the chain in the wet and muck this meant the chain wouldn’t cleanly come of the chainring at the bottom which resulted in an ‘orrible noise and sometimes buttock clenching chainsuck! Try a REALLY good chain clean (poss using an ultrasonic cleaner) and Finish Line green or similar to finish.

Might be a dumb suggestion but is the rear wheel seated correctly in the drop-outs?

Stevie – yeah double checked the position of the wheel in dropout.

Bikeshopbob – yeah I must admit this has been my thought all along – however its a new kmc chain (well 200miles on it). I killed my last chain with degreasing too much so have been really careful with this one. It feels ok when it’s off the bike and a heavy soaking in chain lube has not helped.

Singlespeed stu – I think ruling all other options out, this could be a probable cause and will have a good look tomorrow. I know 10 speed setups are a bit more sensitive to indexing than good old fashioned 9/8 speed setups. The noise does sound just like the gears catching the chain edge. Tried winding the adjustment barrel all the way in and out on my way home today and did not seem to help 🙁

One thing I have noticed is that the sprung arm on the rear derailer does seem to vibrate with the noise and moves back and forward. I was wondering if it could be a genuine incompatibility with the design of the kmc chain. The chain rollers have quite a bit of float radially and I am pretty sure I can see the edge of the chain riding up on the jockey wheels before popping into a seated position.

I am totally flummoxed by this! May run it down to my trusted BS (not my LBS as they are rubbish and will just start randomly replacing stuff).

Double check the b- screw, re adjusted my gears today and although gap looked fine an extra turn cured a similar noise . As to it getting worse after getting wet that’s to be expected this time of year with grit in the puddles.

Will try tomorrow hamble thanks – made me a little spacer at work today to Check the required 5-6mm clearance so will set this and see how I get on!

Maybe the spacing needs to be slightly Bigger or smaller than what’s called up in the shimano tech docs – I guess they assume you are using all shimano running gear (I am using kmc chain).

Haven’t you got 5 and 6mm Allen keys? 😉

Ha yeah good point 🙂 Doh! Killed an hour at work over engineering a tool on my colchester lathe and mill 🙂 has a knurled Handle too ! Absolutely serves no purpose whatsoever.

another “just checking the obvious here” but have you checked the cassette lockring? I’ve seen them come loose allowing the cassette to move around under load.