Marginal gains to save the planet

No kids.

Not flown since 2006.

Not driven since 2012.

Immersion heater only on for final ~60mins of cheaper Economy 7 night rate electric.

Food shopping delivered.

Fish tanks only have lights if they contain live plants and limited to ~6 hours daily.

Fish tanks only have heater operating if unusually chilly weather, my oldest fish are 14 years old.

Turbo bike can be ridden outside.

Tiny “garden” is left pretty wild.

Cavity wall insulation and new loft insulation installed around 2010 made a huge difference to our heating expenditure.

Especially during the winter, the oven door is left ajar after use to warm the kitchen/flat.

In a typical week, my carnivorous urges are quite small (2 tins mackerel, 6 eggs, Hawaiian pizza, pack of 16 fish sticks).

Besides my immediate kettle refilling I posted earlier, that’s all I can think of in a sleepy state!

Ah yes the usual :- “I won’t/can’t/don’t do anything until big industries and governments” start acting.  These are the words I get every time a little hint is dropped to people who don’t care.

My phone is reconditioned second hand mobile, we put lots of things on a thrift group, or sent to charity shops. Almost everything I buy has been purchased with a little bit of consideration. Green products and refills from the local environmentally friendly shop.

I also make a lot of gifts.

It would be interesting to see which generation trashes our planet the most.

Ah yes the usual :- “I won’t/can’t/don’t do anything until big industries and governments” start acting.  These are the words I get every time a little hint is dropped to people who don’t care.

But people who do care, care.

There has got to be more legislation because there are still millions who don’t GAF, especially the young.

Pretty much all the young members of staff (u25) in any wife’s office don’t recycle anything. She’s always trying to get them to separate things or take stuff home but it’s met with a shrug. Bet she’s seen as the grumpy old lady of the office.

Despite the years of education they must have had on climate change – it’s just not going in with people of that age group.

It would be interesting to see which generation trashes our planet the most.

My parents’ generation have done everything within their spending power and will do to the grave. I contributed heavily till age 27 when I first saw numbers for CO2 over time and as a geologist knew what they meant. Junior is really careful in his private life but professionally a disaster (ski instructior and DJ).

Ah yes the usual :- “I won’t/can’t/don’t do anything until big industries and governments” start acting.  These are the words I get every time a little hint is dropped to people who don’t care.

No body’s mentioned China yet which I’m quite disappointed about as I found two great stats this week.

1) China added more solar capacity in 2023 than the entire rest of the world did in 2022.

2) China added more solar capacity in 2023 than the US has full stop.

Although the other fact was that apparently you can’t turn down solar generation like you can wind.  If you leave it disconnected in the sun it can burn out (a lesson learnt at a large installation in Saudi Arabia where they weren’t connected to the grid for 6 months).

Loads of good ideas.

My litter picking group find new clothes dumped outside the local supermarket, scrotes had nicked the wrong size.  Clothes get washed and donated to charity shops.

I won’t name the shop, but I was telling the security chap on the door this, and he said it was company policy not to chase thieves if they ran off.

Up thread some one questioned my statement about needing a new electric vehicle every few years. Now adays people buy new cars every few years and electric is the things that is pushed. No modern cars are fixable easily and if they are they are expensive so easier to chuck and buy new. Electric cars add to that . Probably should have said any new car as well.

Importing less would help as it would stop the carbon footprint. We could be self sufficient if people were less greedy.

Whilst I agree with recycling this is really treating the symptoms not the disease. Why the hell do we need so much packaging? I am staring at the packaging of a cheap phone bought for my MiL. An outer box, an inner one, 3 plastic bags, two cable ties, some polystyrene. I arrived in another big box full of bubble wrap. FFS!

 No modern cars are fixable easily and if they are they are expensive so easier to chuck and buy new. Electric cars add to that . Probably should have said any new car as well.

No-one scraps recent cars with faults.  They sell them, to people who fix them.

The fundamental problem with car buying is the people who buy new cars and condemn fixable old ones to the scrap heap. That said, moving to EVs is a massive emissions saver so if we had to wait 40 years for old car stock to diminish that decarbonisation would take even longer.

Beyond cycling to work daily, and having only one family car for well over ten years…

I decided the regularity of buying plastic bottles of hand soap, body wash, shampoo, etc, was too much so bought 5l bottles of each and refill the regular sized daily use bottles as and when required. Also means don’t have to wait for a trip to the shop when something runs out. Store it in shed.

Deoderant is squeezed out of recyclable alu tubes between fingers and rubbed under arms. Tubes lasts a couple of months.

Just remember packaging is another industry that creates jobs for people lower down the chain. All the tat wealthy people buy creates an income for someone, if wealthy people cut back on buying crap then poverty for the majority increases.

Materialistic consumerism is not the enemy here, in truth I think it’s the only realistic long term solution. Buy as much environmentally friendly tat you can afford.

Ah yes the usual :- “I won’t/can’t/don’t do anything until big industries and governments” start acting.  These are the words I get every time a little hint is dropped to people who don’t care.

But it’s the absolute truth. Only governments can change industrial policy to use carbon free technologies and energy sources. Only governments can provide the money to enable energy suppliers to transition from fossil fuels to renewables. Only goverments can create the policy which forces or encourages populations to do stuff that uses less carbon. For every well meaning green hippy type (and I count myself as one) there’s a hundred people who don’t think twice about buying the latest SUV or flying to New York for a weekend away. What you do personally makes no difference, what governments do makes a massive difference. And the more you guilt-trip people into feeling bad about what they’re not doing the more they will react against it and behave the opposite way you want them to. This is pretty basic stuff.

Eat less dead animals. Its gross anyway.

I’ve watched enough David Attenborough to know that most carnivores in the wild eat animals whilst they are still alive. We are quite civilised by killing it first

Regarding electric cars; lifecycle assessments on the whole agree that they are far better, 89% less CO2 according to this study for example

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032122000867

“For example, the additional production emissions of a Tesla Model 3 Standard Plus approximately correspond to the driving emissions of a Volkwagen Passat 2.0 TSI after 18 000 km”

So a Tesla charged off solar panels would be carbon free compared to a Passat after only 1 year of some people’s use

Especially during the winter, the oven door is left ajar after use to warm the kitchen/flat.

A marginal gain that literally does nothing to help. The oven will warm your flat whether the door is open or not.

Is it a marginal gain if it negatively impacts quality of life (as many of the suggestions above seem to imply)?

When driving in winter make sure if you’ve got the heating on to keep the windows closed. This will keep the warm air inside helping to prevent global warming.

I run old cars (newest is 19years old) and keep spannering them to last as long as possible (I’m a tight arse as well as see the embedded energy in their production).

I litter pick most days. Unfortunately I don’t have capacity to recycle the litter streams but I’m picking up an awful lot of single use plastics.

Spring clean

Some things I do as a matter of course…

Towels get at least a couple of uses

Shower when I need a shower, not just because it’s routine

Recycling to a reasonable degree

One child

Hardly eat any meat – eat no processed meat. Do eat a fair amount of chicken and fish though

Cycle to the shops or gym (when convenient, not all the time)

However, I’m not going to make any excuses or apologies for the things I don’t do

If it’s cold, the heating is on – we have Devon Rex cats who don’t like being cold either

If you think you don’t need deodorant, you are probably wrong

Not seen enough of the world – didn’t go abroad as a child and still only been abroad 5 times at 52yo. If I want a holiday, I’m getting on a plane.

Balls to using hard soap

Unless I fold my business, driving is a necessity – and a diesel suits my needs. I briefly considered an EV, but for now it wouldn’t be suitable

I’ve lived in the ’70’s once, I’m not regressing my lifestyle to mimic that again thanks

The OP has asked what marginal gains to save the planet.

As usual people go off on the ‘big’ companies, countries etc. Yes we know climate change is not going to alter much without these huge corporate conglomerates doing something. However the OP has asked for the little, wee, things that we (that’s every single Tom, Dick and Harriet) can do to make a tiny difference, which when we ALL do it, will make a difference.

Oh and stop buying or using wet wipes (they sell the reusable type in our local ‘green, refill’ shop).

Buy fruit, veg and salads from a market stall/farmer’s market/honesty box stall, where there will be virtually no packaging. Take own tupperware containers to the butcher/fish monger.

Turn off all appliances where possible when not in use. We never have our kettle/toaster/microwave left on.

Iron when there is a big pile.

Batch cook using a slow cooker.

Take own tupperware containers to the butcher/fish monger.

I rest my case. 🙄

Iron when there is a big pile

What’s an iron? 😉

I’ve lived in the ’70’s once, I’m not regressing my lifestyle to mimic that again thanks

What you do personally makes no difference, what governments do makes a massive difference. And the more you guilt-trip people into feeling bad about what they’re not doing the more they will react against it and behave the opposite way you want them to. This is pretty basic stuff.

Pretty basically wrong.  ( see change in attitudes to loads of stuff in the past 50 years – ;like smoking and drink driving for example) The answer is we all need to do everything and also so do governments – governments respond to pressure from the population.  Every gram me of carbon saved makes a differnce

Two examples of ” I’m alright jack, I don’t want to help, sod ’em let ’em die”

This is why mega death is coming in yours or your childrens lifetime.  attitudes like this

Towels get at least a couple of uses

A couple of uses? You mean you wash your towels every other day? I’m either a complete minger, or that’s mental. Our towels get washed once a week at best, and amazingly we’re not covered in festering sores.

they sell the reusable type in our local ‘green, refill’ shop

Isn’t a reusable wet wipe also know as a cloth? But yeah, unless you’re wiping a babies bum, there’s never (or at least very very very rarely) a reason for a wet-wipe. Or kitchen paper/roll, for that matter,

No-one scraps recent cars with faults.  They sell them, to people who fix them.

The fundamental problem with car buying is the people who buy new cars and condemn fixable old ones to the scrap heap. That said, moving to EVs is a massive emissions saver so if we had to wait 40 years for old car stock to diminish that decarbonisation would take even longer.

Cars are an odd one in this discussion. Whether its because they are high cost, or regulated, or just large objects, they get rehomed much more than anything else.

Because I’m a sad bastard, I just checked all my previous cars. I know I’m younger than some of you lot so have a less extensive history and can still remember all the number plates.

First car (1996) I owned was still MOT’ed until Feb of this year, curently SORNed.

Second car (2001)  after I part-exed it for £200, on 121000 miles it never got another MOT. As garages usually give old cars a fresh MOT to sell them, this one may have gone to the knackers yard. could I have kept this going for longer myself maybe?

Third car (2013) still going at 130000+ miles. I bought it a new clutch master cylinder before selling it. It otherwise worked fine.

current car (2020) on about 30000 miles.

What you do personally makes no difference, what governments do makes a massive difference. And the more you guilt-trip people into feeling bad

Genuine question – do you feel the same way about e.g. Boycott Divest Sanctions movements?  It seems many people argue both that consumer behaviour is useful in shifting public positions on Israel, South Africa (back when) et al, but not useful for shifting public positions on oil use etc.

Personally, I’m inclined to think that changing consumer behaviour is all we really have, and if we wait for governments to lead then we’ll all boil to death sooner rather than later.

A couple of uses? You mean you wash your towels every other day? I’m either a complete minger, or that’s mental. Our towels get washed once a week at best, and amazingly we’re not covered in festering sores.

I don’t count and said ‘at least’

There are usually a couple of towels on rotation between two of us, who as I’ve said, don’t shower by default every day. Basically if a towel seems like it needs washing, it gets washed, if not, it’s hung back on the (non heated) towel rail.

Out of interest – who out of the totally virtuous ones will refuse to go out on the bike when it’s muddy – so that they don’t have to wash their bike clothes?

My bike clothes need washing whether it’s muddy or not.

Materialistic consumerism is not the enemy here, in truth I think it’s the only realistic long term solution.

The only solution is to create an economy based more on non-materialistic goods and services.  So for example, instead of buying your kid a pile of toys, do something like riding lessons or a day out that doesn’t result in the creation of a physical object from resources.  (Kids do of course need some toys before you accuse me of being a miserable git, but it’s a lot fewer than you’d think).

Genuine question – do you feel the same way about e.g. Boycott Divest Sanctions movements?

No I think everyone should put all the pressure they can on governments and corporations to tackle the problem because they are the only ones who can take action at the scale required. What I’m getting at is that many of the frankly laughable things that have been mentioned on this thread are no substitute for political action and voting in the correct way. Much of it is just virtue signalling nonsense designed to make people feel like they’re doing something. Some of it – like not having kids – would be extremely destructive. The answer to this problem is in politics and economics exercised at macro levels, not in fiddling round the edges of consumer behaviour or lifestyles.

The only solution is to create an economy based more on non-materialistic goods and services.

Agreed – I always find it odd, the strange tension between these green-leaning businesses that, to their credit, are doing things better than many, but still need to exhort us to BUY MORE of their stuff so they can survive.

But really, I think the biggest thing for most people is holidays.  And I also think that’s the last thing anyone will give up.  And all this worrying about deodorant or towels is just a sop to people’s consciences.

I like to think I’m greener than average – but I still take a flight every other year or so.  All my walking to Tesco and using the packaging-free shop is just tinkering at the edges.

An old classic!

https://x.com/vizcomic/status/1801535548106158138

edit – not sure why twitter links sometimes embed and sometimes don’t.  Hey ho

Agreed – I always find it odd, the strange tension between these green-leaning businesses that, to their credit, are doing things better than many, but still need to exhort us to BUY MORE of their stuff so they can survive

thats the difference between dark and light green.  Light green can be consumerist, dark green is not.  Light green buys ecover fabric cojnditioner, dark green does not use fabric conditioner etc etc

Molgrips, As ugly and inefficient as the current consumerist economy is, it is still the only option in town, you can’t just shut down the tat factories without consequence.  If we all suddenly cut back on tat, what happens to all the labourers at the bottom of the chain? That income is a potential education for a child, that education brings a more sustainable world.. The world economy has to work for 8 billion people not just the lucky few.

We need to keep pushing for greener production. it’s realistically achievable and in progress, don’t give stuff up, buy the most ethical and environmentally friendly version you can afford.  Share your wealth don’t hoard it.

Spend it locally on stuff with low environmental penalty.  Local beer and food for example.

Unfortunately we’ve already gone past the tipping point, we need some massive technological break-through to deal with the mess we’ve created – slowing down our destruction is very ineffective at this point. Stuff like tree planting is only a short term measure until (hopefully) that technology comes along that allows us to manipulate our climate quickly and positively, otherwise all those living trees just turn into dead trees and release the CO2 back as they decompose.

Don’t worry, I’m still “doing my bit” and pretending it makes a difference but we shouldn’t kid ourselves anything we (or governments/businesses) can do at this point is going to be enough to halt (let alone reverse) global warming.

Molgrips, As ugly and inefficient as the current consumerist economy is, it is still the only option in town, you can’t just shut down the tat factories without consequence.

I’m well aware of this.  That’s why I think the only solution is going to be technological, which means we can still go ahead and produce things but they will be made from renewable sources and low carbon energy.  To do that we need new technology.  The only other option is actual communism where everyone’s activities are centrally managed and no-one gets paid you just get food and board.

If you want to have a life with choices and opportunities of fulfilment, then you need to be able to travel, buy things (yes, things, to allow you to explore your interests e.g. bikes, musical instruments, books etc) and pay for services that have incurred resource costs to supply.  The only solution is to make those things genuinely sustainable.  I don’t just mean using bioplastics and solar panels, I mean properly sustainable in the long long term right down to the roots.

Light green can be consumerist, dark green is not.  Light green buys ecover fabric cojnditioner, dark green does not use fabric conditioner etc etc

I’d say dark green has to go much further than that.  Never travel anywhere, don’t buy anything etc.  Not buying fabric conditioner just makes you a microscopically darker shade.  I don’t, by the way 🙂

Meanwhile …

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13498211/kyle-walker-wife-annie-kilner-euro-2024-travel-35-000-private-jet.html

Molgrips.  That was just an example.   Never travel is saft.  You travel in the least damaging way and as infrequently as possible.   Of course you have to buy stuff to live.  Just do so locally and in the least damaging way.

Dark green is a lived philosophy.   Light green is a bolt on to your existing life

You travel in the least damaging way and as infrequently as possible.   Of course you have to buy stuff to live.  Just do so locally and in the least damaging way.

You’re saying the same thing.  ‘As little as possible’ has no clear definition, just like the ‘least damaging’ way possible.  Every single one of us makes a choice on how ‘green’ we can go before it starts to require too many sacrifices.  Even your ‘dark green’ lifestyle is far more environmentally damaging than a great many people outside the developed world.

Biggest thing an individual can do is go vegan. That makes the most difference, for both the environment and wellbeing of animals. Modern meat production has no historical precedents in its cruelty and disconnection from anything natural for the animals forced to live their conscious existence within that machinery.

I went vegetarian in 1996, and completely vegan in the 2000s. To me the direction our world is headed in was completely clear already back then, even more so today – today I don’t really have too much hope that our civilization is going to make it without a disastrous collapse of some kind in my lifetime. And I studied forest and mire ecology at university level – I have a very good understanding of the ecological disaster we are in the middle of causing – before becoming a professional bike mechanic.

I also last owned a car in 2004. Used an airplane once in the last 15 years. We travel by train, or by bicycle and on foot.

Don’t make children either. I would not want to watch my children grow up inheriting this mess. I have personally never wanted kids anyway – I have nothing against kids and I have worked at childrens daycare when I was younger – there are just too many people consuming too much. Luckily my spouse shares this view and it was discussed when we originally met.

We also consume as little as possible, the goods we do buy are clothes and bicycle equipment – and I always try to buy the most durable, ecologically best gear possible – and manufactured in good labour conditions which means nothing made in China or preferably anywhere in Asia. I always select the manufacturer that does not chase easy profits over true quality.

There is no furniture in our apartment that would have been bought as new. Everything is inherited, or from recycling, or thrown away and repaired. Same with plates, cups, utensils and everything – inherited from dead relatives. Only thing bought new is the steel frying pan and a few camping pots and pans.

Food wise, buy everything possible local. The closer, the better as it supports the local economy, and transit emissions are smaller.

I feel really hopeless much of the time, but my conscience would not let me do anything but my best according to what I can do. While all around people seem to be blithely unaware of anything being wrong, or actively saying that its all a conspiracy or some utter shit.

Unfortunately we’ve already gone past the tipping point, we need some massive technological break-through to deal with the mess we’ve created – slowing down our destruction is very ineffective at this point. Stuff like tree planting is only a short term measure until (hopefully) that technology comes along that allows us to manipulate our climate quickly and positively, otherwise all those living trees just turn into dead trees and release the CO2 back as they decompose.

Don’t worry, I’m still “doing my bit” and pretending it makes a difference but we shouldn’t kid ourselves anything we (or governments/businesses) can do at this point is going to be enough to halt (let alone reverse) global warming.

Yup. Without something miraculous happening in geopolitics and technology, not to mention an enormous, rapid shift in the lifestyle of the developed world, it’s all pissing in the wind at this point. I’ll do my best to add my own tiny bit of piss into that effort, but I know that its in vain.