machete attack in woolwich london (bbc news atm)

I dread to think what the other two things are.

Movies I expect.

Tragedy all round.

Recently read up on the exploits of and the issues leading up to Vasco Da Gama getting himself round the cape to India. Seems like “the west” have a lot to answer for in the state of things as they are now within the world. Great shame that as a result the extremists on both sides seem to hold sway over the passive majorities, whom I’m sure left to their own devices could find a civilised way forward.

So the photo of the attacker dominated the fron pages of all papers this morning…..

You are a miserable loner, haven’t made anything of your life, dabbled in petty crime, smoked weed. Found something to make you feel good about yourself (Religion) and want to be remembered for something.

All the papers are waiting for you’re deluded mix of mumbo-jumbo rammbling for your 1 minute of fame.

Grim

I don’t see how it’s terrorism, unless there is a new definition?

Terrorism – Noun. The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Of course it’s an act of terrorism. I fail to see by what definition it could be seen as anything else, given the explicit threats and political ramblings spouted by the lunatic. It doesn’t have to be organised and coordinated by some shady group, merely inspired by a common cause. Militant Islamist publications have been attempting to encourage ‘lone wolf’ attacks for several years now.

Seems like “the west” have a lot to answer for in the state of things as they are now within the world.

🙄

Because the Islamic religion is the common denominator in a couple of decades worth of terrorist attacks. With the terrorists quoting their religion as the reason.
Why not say “not in the name of this religion, it’s peaceful and violence is wrong” ?

So the Muslim Council of Britain comes out and says exactly that (and receives very little media coverage for doing so), but that’s not good enough for you? 🙄

All the coverage of this is once again an example of all the worst best things you can possibly do encourage future incidents like this. Horrific as this is it’s pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things – on average probably 8 people died yesterday in road traffic accidents. Meanwhile in Iraq:

KIRKUK, Iraq, May 21 (Reuters) – Several bomb blasts killed at least 12 people in Iraq on Tuesday, police said, a day after more than 70 died in attacks on majority Shi’ites, stoking fears of all-out sectarian war with minority Sunnis.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed for having a sense of perspective though.

Isn’t there a theory that its best not to splash the killers face/name all over the papers quite so much? He obviously wanted to be seen and heard as he was walking up to the cameras.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/woolwich-attack–soldier-killed-ingrid-loyau-kennett-bravery-confronts-attackers-081833559.html#NkQtFVt

Isn’t there a theory that its best not to splash the killers face/name all over the papers quite so much?

But unfortunately that theory is tempered by the other theory that if you don’t sell papers or get viewing figures, you don’t get paid.

The public gets the media it deserves. Which unfortunately is quite a damning indictment on the general public…

Isn’t there a theory that its best not to splash the killers face/name all over the papers quite so much?

With regards to the guy ranting at the camera. I think they should do what they used to do to the IRA and have an actor speak their words. But it has to be the same actor that they used then. The one that did Gerry Adams. Or maybe Jimmy Krankie

It might lose some of its desired impact then

I expect I’ll get flamed for this, but as sad and awful and horrific yesterdays incident was I can’t help thinking the way that this has been dealt with is only going to incite hatred, and justify the continuation of unjust wars in Iraq etc… How must the soldiers family feel seeing his bloodstained killer ranting on TV every five minutes? Shocking….

These two idiots are clearly just taking a muslim slant to justify their barbaric behaviour, they insult any God they claim to represent. Can’t help thinking that they way they hung around encouraging people to take pictures and giving interviews smacks of the celebrity culture that exists, albeit in an evil sadistic way. They wanted to be famous/notorious and they were disillusioned with playing xbox all day so decided to carry out this horrific act. Would be very interested to learn if they were under instruction or in communication with any terrorist/hard line muslim teachers/units or wether they were acting alone, I highly suspect the latter.

Given his accent, and his constant reference to ‘our lands’, I was really disappointed that he didn’t finish his statement with ‘ya get me blud?’

The attack was truly disgusting and the EDL’s response an indication of the nasty horrible ignorant pieces of scum they really are.

In my opinion something also needs to be done about the tabloids that churn this scaremongering out relentlessly in an effort to sell papers. Thats right, give them the column inches they wanted – that’ll learn them! Or how about stating that Muslims are at the root of this, that won’t exacerbate the current racial tension that already exists.

You are a miserable loner, haven’t made anything of your life, dabbled in petty crime, smoked weed. Found something to make you feel good about yourself (Religion) and want to be remembered for something.

All the papers are waiting for you’re deluded mix of mumbo-jumbo rammbling for your 1 minute of fame

Same with every mass killing, terrorist attack etc.

I wonder if the newspapers couldn’t all be persuaded to show the faces of the victims in these circumstances rather than the perpetrators. Show them in photos when convicted and only on the inside pages even then. It would at least deprive them of their moment of fame.

Same with the TV news. Unless they’re still at large, don’t show any photos, cover their “manifesto” in any detail etc.

Seems like “the west” have a lot to answer for in the state of things as they are now within the world.

The own goal that is the oxygen of publicity being just one of those!

Basically, Terrorism, is on a par with Judo, it is the art of using your opponents strength against him. Whilst I don’t subscribe to any religious view there is a lot of sense in the teaching, “turn the other cheek”. Worth remembering that while we are collectively handing these loons their nasty little victory.

i’m a muslim and have been left totally aghast at the barbaric acts of these two animals…
that fact that they have tried to use religion as an excuse for their actions is completely wrong…their barbaric actions and the actions of any other muslim be it here or anywhere else in the world no not represent Islam in any way whatsoever…the same as the actions of pedophile priests do not represtent christianity or catholicism…

the fact that they were encouraging passers by to record their deeds and seemed like they were intent on getting their 15 minutes of fame and by bringing religion into it would further stoke it up…do we even know if these guys were in fact muslims?

the media has certainly not helped by labelling this as an act of terrorism…once again sensationalising the incident to sell column space…all this is doing is fueling more hatred and allowing the EDL/BNP to jump on the bandwagon…

the actions of these idiots had nothing to do with Islam and their actions will/should never be accepted by any muslim…

RIP to the poor soldier who sadly lost his life and our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and loved ones…

I wonder what the EDL think of the IRA or Catholic priests? Bet they think thats OK, they seem like a load of dense nazi thugs and nothing more to me.

well said Gonzy. They were apparently heard to be shouting Allahu Akbar (God is Great). I guess this is why it’s being presumed they are muslims.

Eyewitnesses say the victim was hacked to death by two men shouting Allahu Akbar (God is Great).

from BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22634468

Daily Mash synopsis

More credible than some of the reporting I’ve seen…………

yes the one thing this situation does not need is a bunch of thugs showing “white Power” on the streets.

I wonder what the EDL think of the IRA or Catholic priests? Bet they think thats OK

Really? 😯
The first song in their repertoire is usually “no surrender”. It’s normally the second, third and fourth as well. The EDL are not renowned for complicated compositions.

Aren’t they tied up with the UDL? That famous pro-catholic mens club?

Mincing around in funny masks shouldn’t be much of a concern. It’s not like they’re blowing stuff up and kneecapping people. Extremest fail.

I wonder what the EDL think of the IRA or Catholic priests? Bet they think thats OK

Probably not 🙄

Enlighten me?

The EDL in action…

“Fat Ninjas”

very good.

This is a brief synopsis of me learning a lesson.
Sas shoot ira in Gibraltar. Me jumping around like we had won the world cup.
Ira people get buried. Idiot throws hand grenade at the funeral.
People killed at funeral have a a procession.
2 squaddies end up stuck in procession.
Squaddies dragged from car and beaten to death.
A very clear line of events all linked.
You have to break the circle of violence.
As much as I’d like the 2 idiots from yesterday flayed alive ultimately it does no good.
Peace.

As much as I’d like the 2 idiots from yesterday flayed alive ultimately it does no good.

Indeed. The best thing we could do is collectively shrug, put them down as the lunatics they clearly are, and then studiously ignore them. No security crackdowns. No using it to further political agendas

I notice the security forces were straight on the bandwagon last night. Wasting no time in telling us that this demonstrates the essential need to monitor everyone’s emails, mobile phones and social media use.

Erm… why exactly? I must have missed something but how would that have prevented what happened yesterday?

well said Gonzy. They were apparently heard to be shouting Allahu Akbar (God is Great). I guess this is why it’s being presumed they are muslims.

i read that as well….however as sad and horrific as their actions may be the root cause of their actions need to found and stopped before more follow in their footsteps…it is all too easy nowadays for young muslims and non-muslims who convert to the religion to be radicalised with extremist views that have been twisted out of proportion and in no way whatsoever represent the tenets of Islam….
i have argued this with many learned muslims that what they preach is always their interpretation of the Quran and that it could easily be manipulated to represent the ideology of the individual rather that what is actually scripted in the Quran….hence what we are seeing today with the increase in extremism in our religion…

Indeed. The best thing we could do is collectively shrug, put them down as the lunatics they clearly are, and then studiously ignore them. No security crackdowns. No using it for your own political agendas

i agree binners…
highlighting what they have done only give more fuel to their cause…
however not highlighting their actions only leads us to think we are safe when we are clearly not…
the main reason is because the vast majority of muslims can read the Quran in arabic but would struggle to translate what they have read into their own language…they therefore rely on scholars to translate the scriptures, who are free to translate this into whatever context they please…yes you can buy a translated copy of the Quran nowadays…but who has translated this and what spin have they put on it?
as a mulsim it makes me sad to say this but this is the main reason we have these extremists in Islam…because they are left to preach about the religion as they see it and the rest of the muslim population blindly follow….

as a mulsim it makes me sad to say this but this is the main reason we have these extremists in Islam…because they are left to preach about the religion as they see it and the rest of the muslim population blindly follow….

I read a book (think it was this one ) about Al Qaeda and I seem to remember it echoed some of what you said, but also that the most extreme forms of Islam were massively funded and promoted by rich Saudis/the Saudi regime as a way of proving their Islamic credentials, despite being closely allied to the west and probably not very good Muslims.

They funded hundreds of schools, scholars, teaching materials, preachers etc all espousing a very extreme, violent form of Islam basically. And that certainly at the time this was the fastest-growing form of Islam and becoming quite dominant in many areas.

Dunno how true it is but the author seems to be generally well respected.

Whether they are representative of the Islamic faith or not is neither here nor there, most of the public understand that these extremist morons are in the minority and are not a true example of what ordinary muslims believe.

However, they did what they did in the name of Islam…albeit their twisted extreme version of Islam but Islam nonetheless.

This is the problem i have with all religions….it attracts scum like this who carry out their actions in the name of an outdated faith which has no place in a modern society.
I’m staggered that in the 21st century religion still causes such friction….people are feeble and disappointing, i’d hoped in these enlightened times this kind of thing wouldnt happen….the Westboro extreme christians in the US are an example also….

….i’d section them all under the mental health act and throw away the keys.

This is the problem i have with all religions….it attracts scum like this who carry out their actions in the name of an outdated faith which has no place in a modern society.

The trouble is; scum are scum and will behave as such. If it wasn’t in the name of religion, they’d just find something else to misbehave under the banner of.
The two in question are likely not intelligent and have been indoctrinated by some pervert somewhere. It’s these people we need to grip, and we need the help of non-radical muslims to do it. There will never be a shortage of feeble minds to convince.

If it wasn’t in the name of religion, they’d just find something else to misbehave under the banner of.

Maybe they will, maybe they wont however a reading of the Koran hardly leaves them short of justification.

This is interesting: one of the men has been named as Michael Adebolajo. Michael is a Christian name and Adebolajo is Yoruba, from western Nigeria. Most Yorubas are Christians.

I think your playing fast and loose with the term “interesting”

It’s interesting to me because he is either a deranged Christian or he is a deranged Christian who recently converted to Islam. If the latter, whoever influenced him has done a particularly effective job. Maybe they recognised that he was deranged and recruited him as cannon-fodder to the cause?

I didn’t think of it as being about religion directly. It’s about one group (Muslims) versus another (British soldiers) not along religious grounds but as revenge for perceived injustice. That injustice being killing other members of their group in wars in the Middle East.

You could just as easily replace ‘Muslim’ with say.. ‘white’, ‘american’, ‘aristocrat’, ‘communist’ or any nationality, and find plenty of similar events through history.