Long, low, slack and ETT. What am I missing?

I’m currently thinking about changing my bike as I think it’s a bit cramped at times. All this talk of long modern bikes made me think a new one, a bit longer would be just the job.

Problem is my pea brain is having trouble working out the figures. My current bike has a ETT of 620mm in large where as the new ones I’m looking at are 630mm in large or 650mm in XL. Great stuff I thought, should be just the extra bit of room I need.

But then I look at the stems. My current one has a 60mm, down from the 70mm stock. The new bikes run at 40 or 50mm so in actual fact the total length will either be the 10mm longer if I go XL or 10mm shorter If I stick with a large. So ‘long’ doesn’t actually mean longer in total or am I missing something?

I don’t want to buy a new ‘long’ bike that actually ends up being shorter than my old one! For reference the current bike is a Orange Alpine 5, the new one either the 5 or Segment.

is reach not a better measure?

ETT only works if you factor in the seat angle (usually steeper on modern bikes) and the height at which ETT is measured (this is also affected by the head angle).

Much easier to use Reach if you can find it for your old bike. This is a horizontal measurement from the BB to where it would intersect the top of the head-tube.

If you feel cramped when seated then ETT and stem length is probably relevant. If you feel cramped when out of the saddle than as others have said above reach is more important.

Also, the new ‘longer’ trend is to allow you to use shorter stems for the same total length, so it shouldn’t be a surprise it works out like you state. If you actually want a longer stretch to the bars, combine a longer frame with a longer stem. Even really long bikes like mondrakers offset this with 10mm stems.

Reach is almost as pointless as ETT.

You’re better off calculating the actual distance from the top of the seatpost to the TDC of the Fork steerer.

Cheers for the replies. I get the reach/ETT bit and it feels fine when standing so looks like I need a bigger frame. I’m a bit surprised ‘longer’ doesn’t really mean overall but guess there’s plenty of other factors at play.

ChrisL – Member

If you feel cramped when seated then ETT and stem length is probably relevant.

That presumes you just fit the saddle where it falls and dont adjust it to suit your preferred position. Entirely probable a person will put the saddle in the same setback (relative to BB) on 2 different bikes. Seat angle change of 1deg is only about 10mm at the typical height ETT is measured.

the new ‘longer’ trend is to allow you to use shorter stems for the same total length

Exactly. The bikes are not longer to give more room, if you don’t have enough room or feel cramped it sounds like the bike is too small or the stem is too short. This would be the case with whatever geometry or style of bike.

It’s when I’m seated it feels a bit cramped. At the end of a ride my palms can feel quite tender and if I ride seated with my hands in the position they feel most comfortable they rest just in front of the bar (760mm so not narrow).

Longer only really applies to the average wheelbase of a given bike in reality. Everything between the smallest and largest frame of any specific bike is just a size.

chestrockwell – Member

It’s when I’m seated it feels a bit cramped. At the end of a ride my palms can feel quite tender and if I ride seated with my hands in the position they feel most comfortable they rest just in front of the bar (760mm so not narrow).

Move your seat back then, or get an offset post if your already at max set. You could fit a longer stem (you say you’ve fitted a shorter one) or get a longer bike (with a longer stem than stock), but that will just mean a longer standing reach, regardless of brand or model.

Prime candidate for stepping away from the numbers on the Internet and trying a few out in real life.

I also seem to remember reading that Orange bikes got shorter this year but I could be wrong.

Move your seat back then, or get an offset post if your already at max set. You could fit a longer stem (you say you’ve fitted a shorter one) or get a longer bike (with a longer stem than stock), but that will just mean a longer standing reach, regardless of brand or model.

Seat is as far back as it’ll go and don’t really fancy any of the droppers with layback. I fitted a shorter stem but also wider bars so it should even out right? The reason I kept away for XL was that I had one years ago that felt too big. I don’t really want to play around with longer stems tbh, I’d prefer just to change the frame.

Prime candidate for stepping away from the numbers on the Internet and trying a few out in real life.

I also seem to remember reading that Orange bikes got shorter this year but I could be wrong.

Very much agree but I’m a couple of weeks away from having the time to sort a demo and there’s some decent deals about NOW that are taking all my power to resist. 🙄 😆

Now I’ve got the answer that LLS doesn’t actually mean longer overall that rules out the large bikes. This then leads me to the Segment most likely.

Oh, and the articles I’ve seen for the new Oranges suggest the 5 has got longer but the quoted figures suggest otherwise.

The 4 I saw today had a 40mm stem so that may be where they’ve got shorter.

Long, low, slack and ETT. What am I missing?

The ability to ride uphill?

Prime candidate for stepping away from the numbers on the Internet and trying a few out in real life.

Me too. I can understand what all the angles and measurements mean but can’t translate that to what a bike will be like to ride. The only thing I can do is ride it and like it or not

The ability to ride uphill?

I’m not so sure. Traditionally good climbing bikes have me poking the nose of the saddle up my arse to keep everything in balance. Could a longer, steeper seat tubed bike protect my virgin ring piece?

Rubber_Buccaneer – Member
I’m not so sure. Traditionally good climbing bikes have me poking the nose of the saddle up my arse to keep everything in balance. Could a longer, steeper seat tubed bike protect my virgin ring piece?

So long as you don’t fit a ThudBuster you should be ok… 🙂

Do you mean a sodbuster?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sodbuster

🙂

This year’s Five and Alpine are definitely a little shorter in reach and chainstay length. Both have longer forks than before and the Alpine is slacker too so that adds some wheelbase back. I saw some articles saying they were longer but they were either comparing to 2015 or earlier, not 2016 bikes, or being typical journalists…

My long/low/slack hardtail climbs incredibly well – super steep seat tube makes a big difference.

My long/low/slack hardtail climbs incredibly well – super steep seat tube makes a big difference.

agree completely

long reach frames need a tiny stem and therfore wider bars + a stee seat tube to get all the benefits of the extra room to manoever and stability

slack seat tube angles are a throwback to compensate for short top tubes, back when everyone thought they were great

Buying the wrong bike because it’s a good deal is a false economy. Ignore the numbers and see what feels best.

I don’t think the Segment is all that long by today’s standards. LLS is just marketing BS these days.

Buying the wrong bike because it’s a good deal is a false economy. Ignore the numbers and see what feels best.

I don’t think the Segment is all that long by today’s standards. LLS is just marketing BS these days.

Agree again, however I’d expect a Segment (or 5)to feel in the same ball park as my Alpine 5 so have no worries about suitability, it’s just the frame size that counts. This being the case it looks like it’ll have to be XL as that will at least give me room to find the best fit.