Local (Heroin)Crack heads what do you think ?

Cut a long story short two local crack heads came into work today and tried to steal charity box, I questioned what they were doing and they both tried to say they were putting money in !

I asked them to leave which they duly did. I didn’t try to argue or get box back – work colleagues came out with a barrage of insults about them and all crack heads. I personally was shocked that people I work with can talk about another human in this way.

In an odd way I find it fascinating how people get on the path of self destruction, we are all human so therefore all equal. This didn’t go down well when I said this ! Sometimes shit happens and society lets people down.

….anyway 30mins after this one of them bought the box back(empty)saying it was his mate that made him do it and please don’t call the police, told him thanks and if they come in again I’ll call the police.

So what’s your attitude towards heroin addicts ?

Sorry, but they made a choice when they started using.

It is in society’s interest to help them get off the stuff, but the initial decision was theirs. This places them some way down the scale of ‘ill’ people who need help.

I could tell you my opinion on thieves if you like?

We all have different ways of dealing with the stresses of life, some make it easier for us to look down on them and scorn, other do the right thing and keep their anti social behaviour behind closed doors.
At the end of the day we’re all human and the day we lose a bit of that hunanity is a sad day and we should look at ourselves being as part of the problem.

They’re human beings with often terrible problems, have made the wrong choices, and are driven by desperation which transcends any notion of self-awareness or respect.

But they’re human beings, as you say. And are as deserving of respect as any other. Many of their issues are exacerbated by some very negative, narrow-minded morally righteous attitudes in society, and an unwillingness to engage with such a human problem.

When such addicts steal/rob/cheat in order to obtain their ext fix, they aren’t deliberately setting out to harm or deprive others, they genuinely don’t have sufficient awareness or empathy to be able to consider this. They are blinded by such a strong physical need, it overweighs any other consideration.

Having seen happy, healthy people close to me descend into a world of suffering with addiction (of all kinds), I know that it’s not that they possess ‘evil’ like some might think, but that they are in need of help and support, which society is unwilling or unable to offer them. Whilst I can hate what they do, I can never get really angry towards such people, because at the end of the day, I know just how lucky I am by comparsion. We none of us are immune from slipping down the same path. Fear is not the answer, it solves nothing. Whilst it may be very difficult to empathise and try to understand others, we should at least try to make the effort. Getting involved in schemes that can offer support and assistance to addicts is really important, and giving someone a purpose, some self respect and social value, can be so vital to their potential recovery.

So they actually Did steal the charity box.
No doubt the charity box was for a more worthy cause than that of purchasing smack.

“Sorry, but they made a choice when they started using.

It is in society’s interest to help them get off the stuff, but the initial decision was theirs. This places them some way down the scale of ‘ill’ people who need help.”

It’s attitudes such as this, which show the depth of ignorance and lack of empathy that actually exacerbates the problem of addiction in the first place. 🙁

Sorry, but they made a choice when they started using.

I assume you don’t drink then? Alcoholics can easily end up in a similar situation.

Pity mostly.

A lot of societies ills get blamed on them, but they’re a symptom not a cause.

If you want to look for the people who are ruining communities then you need to start at the top and work your way down.

And, who else ‘steals’ from charities to fund their vain ambitions? George Osborne and (But I hate)Sebastian Coe! http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Olympics/article1072137.ece

Fwiw I think you dealt with it the right way, i.e., didn’t put yourself in harm’s way.

This has been discussed on here before but it still looks like Portugal got it right when they decriminalised all drugs, gave hard drugs away in a controlled manner and instigated sensible programmes to give users a chance to change their futures.

Drug related crime is way down and perhaps more importantly, far, far fewer people die.

Unlike the news here in NE England this week which tells us that our fair region now has the highest drug related death toll in the UK…

I also find it interesting that this substance is SO appealing that they willingly give up a reasonable life to get high every day. I am curious as to what it feels like but not going to… perhaps when I’m few years from death.

So what’s your attitude towards heroin addicts ?

Before they become addicted, they may have been nice(ish) people with problems. Once addicted they are scum.

Nothing else matters apart from getting the next fix. Nothing.

zippykona – Member
So they actually Did steal the charity box.
No doubt the charity box was for a more worthy cause than that of purchasing smack.

They did borrow charity box !

Having seen happy, healthy people close to me descend into a world of suffering with addiction (of all kinds), I know that it’s not that they possess ‘evil’ like some might think, but that they are in need of help and support, which society is unwilling or unable to offer them.

basically this. It’s easy to demonise a group of people, but when you’ve seen it close up you realise how complicated it all is. And when you’ve tried to get help for someone, and find out how little there is, really, it’s a lot easier to sympathise.

Sorry, but they made a choice when they started using.

what choice was that? and how does it differ to the ‘choice’ that alcoholics made?

Oh and the one who returned the box will be back for it as soon as he needs another fix.

The OP wasn’t asking about the social reasoning behind becoming a drug addict, the question was about drug addicts.

Alcoholics are in the same addiction cycle too. However smack heads do appear to commit more crime/violent crime to feed their habit? (happy to be proved wrong)

I also find it interesting that this substance is SO appealing that they willingly give up a reasonable life to get high every day. I am curious as to what it feels like but not going to… perhaps when I’m few years from death.

Honestly. try volunteering at a local drug support group. It will answer all these questions and more, and you’ll be doing something very valuable to boot.

I think your attitude does you credit OP.

Some of the replies on here are shocking, but not surprising.

its different peoples perspectives on life i guess. I try and do things for people. others just take and dont care about who it effects. Its the same if they are on heroin or not?

They did borrow charity box !

I don’t understand they took it away and then brought it back, still full of cash?

Well what a surprise. A total lack of empathy and understanding by the usual suspects. I wonder how long it is before we get the achingly predictable “I didn’t get where I am today……” lectures as a thinly veiled excuse to wax lyrical about how bloody wonderful they are, having made all the right decisions in life….

Some of you lot haven’t got the first bloody clue, wrapped up in your comfortable middle class ivory towers. about how miserable some peoples lives are, and how traumatic their upbringings were, putting up wit all types of shit that you could barely imagine.

Tell you what… go and do some volunteering work with some challenging young people from less cosseted backgrounds, and hear their stories, then you can start passing judgement!

You shower of sanctimonious, self-regarding ****s!!!

So what’s your attitude towards heroin addicts ?

If I collect a prescription before work and nip to the local chemist just before 9, I get to queue with the local addicts waiting for their daily supervised methadone dose, they seem perfectly normal….

“Alcoholics are in the same addiction cycle too. However smack heads do appear to commit more crime/violent crime to feed their habit? (happy to be proved wrong)”

Alcohol is the cause of far more social damage than Heroin/Crack. Visit any town centre in Britain on Friday or Saturday night. Talk to police, paramedics etc.

I’ve never felt particularly ‘threatened’ by Heroin/Crack addicts (who seldom actually use violence tbh), but I’ve left pubs because of the behaviour of drunken thugs. And I actively avoid going through areas near football stadia, when games are on, as I’ve encountered nasty behaviour from drunken louts there as well.

I don’t understand they took it away and then brought it back, still full of cash?

Empty !

Fair point clodhopper.

However alcoholics are not usually the ones out on the town on a Saturday night.

Plenty of alcoholics out of a weekend evening. Even those who only binge drink once a week. Addiction isn’t a binary thing, it takes many different forms and levels.

Fair point clodhopper.

Is it though? What about the gang violence associated with dealing/territory, and the countless lives destroyed by the criminals back where the drugs are produced? You don’t see turf wars in Belgium and pits full of headless corpses over who gets to brew Stella.

Of course, I forgot, this is STW, where stealing charity boxes to buy drugs is a victimless crime but anyone who parks at a trail centre without paying should be strung from the nearest tree! 🙂

I learned recently that dopamine levels increase by around 50 times during sex. Whilst taking heroin these can increase to around 1500 times that.

I’ve got nothing else.

“What about the gang violence associated with dealing/territory, and the countless lives destroyed by the criminals back where the drugs are produced?”

That is far more about politics though; criminalise something, and you will get criminals. Countries which have decriminalised drug possession/use have seen huge drops in drug-rlated crime. Criminalisation of drugs leads to an increase in price, as supply is much more difficult, which inevitably leads to crime.

” You don’t see turf wars in Belgium and pits full of hundreds of headless corpses over who gets to brew Stella.”

Read up on Prohibition in the USA. Educate yourself.

“Of course, I forgot, this is STW, where stealing charity boxes to buy drugs is a victimless crime”

Who said that?

Sorry, but they made a choice when they started using.

2/3rds of problematic drug users are self medicating due to a very traumatic childhood. study after study proves this point. I’ve heard more than once, users say “if I come off heroin I want to kill myself”. they simply cannot deal with what happened to them in childhood.

Read up on Prohibition in the USA.

And that is relevant to 2016 how?

What about the gang violence associated with dealing/territory, and the countless lives destroyed by the criminals back where the drugs are produced?

this is due to the legal vacuum created by prohibition, not the drug users. You could eradicate criminality, or massively reduce it if you moved to a more grown up system, in line with an advanced society, rather than carry on with this ludicrous idea that drugs are a problem that can be policed. It can’t. How many more years do we have to go down this totally discredited route, before we’ll admit as a society that it has absolutely failed?

And imagine the police resources that could then be released to do something more useful too. Not to mention the health benefits of addicts being able to access a purer (licensed) supply rather than gear thats got any old shit mixed up in it. Thats what kills them.

But we’re not even allowed to discuss that like grown ups, are we? And why not? Because the Mail reading blinkered idiots would piddle their petticoats with righteous indignation at the very idea of it. And no politician has the will to actually tell this particular group of people what they don’t want to hear, and challenge their ill-informed prejudices

“I didn’t get where I am today….. blah, blah, blah…..”

“And that is relevant to 2016 how?”

I’ll let you figure that out. 🙄

Couldn’t really tell you until I had experience of meeting a specific individual. Their addiction will have little bearing on my initial thoughts.

zilog6128 – Member
Read up on Prohibition in the USA.
And that is relevant to 2016 how?

You’re correct there are no parallels that can be drawn, none what-so-ever…

FunkyDunc » Once addicted they are scum.

Yes, at the point that they are coming in to your property/business looking to steal something.

Asking them to sit down, and discuss the relative merits of stealing v finding a job to feed their habit is not really going to help the situation.

Having had experience of them from around my work, speaking to people in hospitals who have to deal with them, and friends who work in the Police, you are completely on your guard with heroin addicts and expect the worst at all times, to do anything else may put your on health and safety in jeopardy.

The OP wasn’t asking about the social issues surrounding becoming an addict or what to can be done to help drug addicts.

In fact Bob if you tried to steal from me, I would suggest you are scum too 😀

You could eradicate criminality, or massively reduce it if you moved to a more grown up system, in line with an advanced society, rather than carry on with this ludicrous idea that drugs are a problem that can be policed.

How does decriminalising heroin stop people from getting addicted to it and throwing away their lives?

Lots of people seem to be confusing addicts and thieves. Lots of addicts never commit crimes. A lot more thieves never take drugs.

Addicts deserve all the compassion and support that society can provide them to recover. They are not criminals.

Thieves deserve to be locked up in jail or face other appropriate societal sanction. They are criminals.

Addicts who steal deserve all the compassion and support that society can provide them to recover whilst they are in jail ( or otherwise sanctioned) for stealing shit.

Society can’t condone crime to support a drug habit. Where would you draw the line?

If it’s OK to steal the charity box, would it be OK to steal the OP’s bike? Or stab him with a used needle if he refused to relinquish the charity box?

How does decriminalising heroin stop people from getting addicted to it and throwing away their lives?

It doesn’t. People will still get addicted. In considerably lesser numbers, if decriminalisation is done in a conjunction with spending the money saved on policing, on proper treatment instead. Which is all but non-existant in the present system.

The impact that the drug use has on the wider society would be massively reduced though.

Our attitude to the whole issue of drugs is totally dysfunctional, and stuck in the 1960’s. It simply doesn’t work. We need to completely change the priority from one of combating criminality by trying to police the none-policeable, to one of trying to deal with the issues that cause it, and properly treating addiction

Mrs Daz worked as a drug worker in a Manchester community drug team for 15 years. She saw pretty much every horrific situation and story that it was possible to see. Very rarely was it simply a case of people ‘making the wrong choices’. Instead the usual pathway to becoming addicted to heroin/crack/alcohol (all 3 in many cases) involved poverty, homelessness, lack of family/friends support, domestic and/or sexual abuse, and just horrifically bad luck. In many cases it was young kids being sent to prison for petty crimes and coming out as addicts.

Incidentally the heroin addicts were generally the easier more sensible ones she dealt with. The real chaotic ones were the alcoholics. In actual fact if clients came in addicted to both, the alcohol addiction was often prioritised for treatment.

Once addicted they are scum.

Idiot.