Lib Dems

With the political conference season in full flow and now we have endure the Lib’s if there was one question you’d ask if they knocked on your door would it be

“What about tuition fees?”

How have they got any credibility anymore as that was there main focus for the last election

All parties have made a U turn on something at some point……

Personally I think we send too many people to university to do pointless degrees which just wastes money, so it’s not something I’d hold against them….

Lib Dems

Ooo, Dat?

I’m sure their comment would be clearly you don’t understand democracy…..

If you’d voted them in to a majority government then you could hold them to that promise…..

All parties have made a U turn on something at some point……

yes but tuition fees is massive, it goes against everything he Lib Dems said they stood for

Never mind tuition fees; joining with the Tory attacks on the vulnerable is unforgivable. If there is any justice the LDs are dead men walking; but justice is a scarce commodity these days.

Personally I think we send too many people to university to do pointless degrees which just wastes money, so it’s not something I’d hold against them….

True but the hike in fee’s hasn’t helped that.

but justice is a scarce commodity these days.

“It’s the ecomony, stupid”

I used to vote Lib Dem, never again.

I sent Greg Mulholland (Lib Dem MP for North Leeds where I used to live) an email regarding the student fees fiasco and the general u-turn in all their policies and that they have basically lost a generation of their core voters because of their sellout to the Tories.

The only response I got was a cut and paste general reply from a staffer saying how Greg was committed to repairing pot holes in the Hyde Park student area, therefore somehow negating his responsibility for saddling the future generation with crippling debt.

I truly think that the future for British democracy lies in some sort of proportional representation / regional assembly model. No more false dichotomy of 3 different colours with the same centrist neoliberal policies.

Don’t hold your breath…

Poor LD, they used to be the default protest party. Now they don’t even fulfil that role.

And they are forced to wear nasty yellow ties. Must be a fun concference

I’d rather have these tuition fees/loans, than the ones I do have where the threshold for repayment is dropping in real terms.

That said I’d rather they were abolished.

However, I’m pretty much Lib Dem, and I will still voting for them. They haven’t sold out, they have ‘gone tory’, they joined a coalition with a very different minded party (pretty ambitious) and have created a very different government to if the Tory’s have called a second general election and scraped a majority. Now it wasn’t the Lib dem dream land, but anyone who expected it to be devoid of compromise was deluding themselves.

They were handed a poison chalice, they could either drink, or die of thirst.

Better to do than not do IMO.*

Also yes to PR, we need more coalitions, not less.

*awaits the fire.

Or they could have reined in the Tories far more effectively by engaging in a ‘confidence and supply’ arrangement. But Clegg chose not to; instead being seduced by Cameron and the promise of power. The LDs in being Cameron’s airbag or condom have caught political AIDS, and like HIV, once you’ve got it, it’s for life.

You’ve made your grubby bed, now lie in it.

I look forward with great glee to Nick Cleggs inevitable ‘Portillo Moment’ as he witnesses his party (thoroughly deservedly) being cast into electoral oblivion. Hopefully he’ll lose his seat into the bargain too. The oily little charlatan!

No point discovering your social conscience now Nick. 4 and a half years ago, and it might have been a bit more handy.

Someone better do something or we will have a con/ ukip coalition after the next election, which quite frankly would be the end days for the UK

Christ!! Imagine… Dave fails to win an overall majority, so is forced to resign. Mental Tories elect Bozza as their leader, with Nige as deputy PM

*shudders*

Maybe the labour party should just put that out there as a nightmare scenario, that would scare the living **** out of pretty much everyone!

that would scare the living **** out of pretty much everyone!

Uummm, compared to, what!

Someone better do something or we will have a con/ ukip coalition after the next election, which quite frankly would be the end days for the UK

I think you’ll find that the “Yes” voters in Scotland are preying for this to happen.

It was very clever timing by the Conservatives. If the Lib Dems had voted against then, given how early in the coalition this happened, it would likely have spelled the end of the coalition and forced a snap general election.

The Lib Dems didn’t want to risk the consequences of that and the instability it would have caused at such a delicate moment in the economic crisis.

Further, I think the Lib Dems have prevented the very worst of Tory policy being implemented and are being hung out to dry when something unpopular is announced and ignored when something positive happens.

In respect of tuition fees specifically they were / are not in a position to implement their own manifesto and voting or not for something when you are in government and not in opposition are two different things.

In a choice between inept and evil its not a massive dilemma for me

As for the lib Dems I feel sorry for them as clearly they have reigned in the excess of the tory party and watered them down from evil to just nasty.

However the tuition fee pledge and the stuff they have enable means, as binners put its

No point discovering your social conscience now Nick. 4 and a half years ago, and it might have been a bit more handy.

Solo – indeed. Would you like you’re huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread. Has parliamentary democracy ever looked so threadbare?

But its the least worst option. A tory majority is a truly terrifying prospect. An absolute disaster for everyone other than the rich. With or without Farage in tow. I seriously believe it would involve the end of both the NHS and the welfare state, and with those, any pretence to being a civilised society. Its every man for himself. Unemployed? tough! Disabled? Unlucky! Got cancer? Not interested! You’re on your own. We’ll be over here counting our money, that we won’t be paying any tax on.

In respect of tuition fees specifically they were / are not in a position to implement their own manifesto and voting or not for something when you are in government and not in opposition are two different things.

“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative

they never promised to implement anything they promised to vote against something that they then implemented and voted for

No good way to spin that and your attempt is as good as it gets

“What about tuition fees?”

How have they got any credibility anymore as that was there main focus for the last election

Well as they didn’t actually win the election I really don’t understand why people still insist on bringing it up, other than to advertise the fact they they don’t understand how the political system works. They can’t be held responsible for not fulfilling an manifesto pledge because, and this is the important bit, they didn’t win the election! If you looked at the Tory manifesto from the last election I’m sure you’ll find stuff in there that they have had to renage on. That’s how coalitions work; you are held to the coalition agreement not your manifesto.

If you looked at the Tory manifesto from the last election I’m sure you’ll find stuff in there that they have had to renage on.

“There will be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS.”

David Cameron

Footflaps and T1000 have it spot on. And the new tuition fees system means fewer people have to pay it back anyway.

Given that whoever had won tbe last election would have had to make drastic cuts and wreck tbe economy one way or the other, I’d be disappointed if the dim witted electorate took it on the junior partners in the coalition.

I suspect life under the Tories would have been even bee worse without them.

I seriously believe it would involve the end of both the NHS and the welfare state, and with those, any pretence to being a civilised society. Its every man for himself. Unemployed? tough! Disabled? Unlucky! Got cancer? Not interested! You’re on your own. We’ll be over here counting our money, that we won’t be paying any tax on.

Very amusing. What is this? Today we have the caring Binners?

Bit rich you critisizing self interest, after your comments about leaving the victims of IS to their fate and how the UK should just pull up the draw bridge.
Nice one.
😆

@gonefishing you may wish to read what the pledge was – above in my previous post – before criticising others grasps of the meaning of it.

@JY-I think that pledge was made assuming they weren’t in coalition and were in opposition. They ARE the government atm.

Imagine the anger if they had destroyed the government and brought on a complete collapse of the economy of they had voted no. As I say it was a clever move from the Tories to do it so early in the term. If they tried it now I am pretty sure the outcome would be different.

You’re mind really does work in some very odd ways Solo. believe it or not, some people have more nuanced views than your ludicrously simplistic black/white view of the world 🙄

Have you actually got anything to say on this subject? Or did you just chip in to have your usual yawn-inducingly predictable pop at me? It got boring quite some time ago

I think that pledge was made assuming they weren’t in coalition and were in opposition. They ARE the government atm.

Which bit of this statement makes you think those caveats apply?

“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative

Its seems clear they are saying they wont vote for it the next parliament as that is what it says.
Its pointless aas even Clegg has apologised for breaking the pledge
I am surprised some wish to argue he has not- surprised if it were anywhere but STW 😉

Have you actually got anything to say on this subject? Or did you just chip in to have your usual yawn-inducingly predictable pop at me?

I’m amused at your contradictory comments, I guess you’ll wear whatever hat suits you at any given tme. I think you look especially good in the pointey hat with the ‘D’ on it.

However, perhaps you’re being selective about whom we care for. If so, what is the basis for your judgement / selection. regarding whom you care for?….

Riiiight… so you haven’t actually got anything to say on the subject. you’ve just chipped in here to have a go at me. All very growed up of you. I didn’t actually realise the schools were off at the moment. Hey ho.

so you haven’t actually got anything to say

And you? ^^ apparently not.
😉

Never mind tuition fees; joining with the Tory attacks on the vulnerable is unforgivable.

There is an argument that far from “joining in ” they actually ” reined in ” the Tories in this area ( and others )

Also yes to PR, we need more coalitions, not less.

+1

the Lib Dems seem a pretty duplicitous bunch by all accounts.

Their general modus-operandi appears to be:

– blame all difficult decisions on the evil tories
– take all the credit for anything that’s good
– regularly refer to their coalition “partners” as liars (the interview with Vince Cable on radio4 yesterday on this point was quite interesting)
– set out a set of vague policies underpinned by “red lines” that they can’t confirm, but which will almost certainly flex to the left or the right if it means they can keep a seat at the cabinet table after the next election.

“I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You both get covered in shit, and besides, the pig likes it.”

George Bernard Shaw

Anyway…. back on topic…. the Lib Dems do appear to be wanting to have their cake and eat it. Anything nasty? that was those evil Tories. Nothing to do with us. Any good stuff? Thats us, that is! Aren’t we great.

The pinnacle of this was the recent discovery of a social conscience about the bedroom tax. All of a sudden its punishing the poor etc, and should be abolished! Well it never would have made it into legislation in the first place if it weren’t for your support! Its just pathetic to indulge in such an 11th hour conversion, when its so transparent its just shameless electioneering. I think we can expect a lot of that between now and May from them

pwned with bombers!

I’m not sure there’s much difference from the other perspective

Their general modus-operandi appears to be:

– blame all difficult decisions on the evil torieslib dems
– take all the credit for anything that’s good
– regularly refer to their coalition “partners” as liars (the interview with Vince Cable on radio4 yesterday on this point was quite interesting)
– set out a set of vague policies underpinned by “red lines” that they can’t confirm, but which will almost certainly flex to the left or the right if it means they can keep a seat at the cabinet table after the next election.

As for calling politicians liars ……..

“I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You both get covered in shit, and besides, the pig likes it.”

Can you tell, in your case, I’ve made an exception. You know the choices I gave you, neither were very nice, That’s you then.
😉

Anything nasty? that was those evil Tories. Nothing to do with us. Any good stuff? Thats us, that is! Aren’t we great.

I am not sure that is any different tbh and they [ tories and lib dems] are just trying to show how different they are

Tories – UKIP ish policies

LIb Dem – actual lib dem policies

I do agree much of this is to little to late but they are all do this sort of stuff. the lib dems just have the hardest job as

1. they seem really bad at it
2. most of what t hey have done is not what they would have wanted to have done – at least for the tories the direction was correct if not the distance travelled.

I would not vote for them personally as what you get is unknown. At least with the others you know what flavour they are if not everything they will do /support.