Legal advice please – cancelling a new car dispute

surely it should be Volvo for lease hire with great terms approved by the local trading standards office

Sorry, I didn’t notice ling’s mileage, because she didn’t mention it – nor did she mention the 3 month up front payment, which would make the price of that deal £180 a month (I’ve no idea why you think only a fiver saving on that other deal though).

Clearly I didn’t bother to check the T&Cs either as I was just curious about how wonderful a deal ling’s audis were (it seems not at all), and yes that company is just as dodgy regarding consumer law as ling is.

However the next company I found
https://www.leasingoptions.co.uk/car-leasing/audi/a4/a4-saloon/14t-fsi-se-4dr/1100290127/vehicle?applyfilter=1

£212 a month for exactly the same deal (10k miles, 3 months up front), and they abide by consumer law: https://www.leasingoptions.co.uk/termsandconditions

You have the right to cancel any contract between you and Us within 14 calendar days without giving any reason. The cancellation period will expire after 14 calendar days from the date of the conclusion of the relevant contract. To exercise the right to cancel, you must inform Us of your decision to cancel by a clear statement in writing. To meet the cancellation deadline, it is sufficient for you to send your communication concerning your exercise of the right to cancel before the cancellation period has expired.

If you cancel a contract between you and Us, We will (save where set out below) reimburse to you all payments received from you.

Perhaps, I’m not fussy!

There you go thegreatape 🙂

Picolax, Sudocrem cat, Magnetodog, Trousergate and now this one. The quintumvirate of STW. Spanning the sublime to the ridiculous.

Also, one closer to 50

Junkyard – lazarus

I am aware of your claim i was asking for proof
Have you got it or not?
Can you proof that on this one point you were not lying?

Yes or no will do with the yes including the proof obvs

The thing you are missing, Junkyard, is WHO THE HELL ARE *YOU*?

I have told the truth. I have re-confirmed it. I don’t have to post “proof”.

Unline you, and unlike the OP, I am putting my neck on the line with my full ID, name, address, who I am, and pictures. Everyone can see who I am.

WHO ARE YOU? No-one knows. So less of the “proof” gobspittle, because if I say I am telling the truth in writing with my full ID visible, then that is good enough.

Mr anonymous… heh. Go away, little man.

Why are there so many rightiously trumped-up pious people on here?
(don’t mean everyone).

– Ling

Thank you Niall, now I can go out and do something productive.

Goodness gracious me, this thread is wonderful.

I’d like to take the opportunity to thank GeordieMick, Ling and the usual argumentative STW members for their wonderfully entertaining contributions.

Please keep up the good work.

P.S – OP and Ling are both looking bad but I can see both their POV’s.

Sorry to have facilitated your return to productivity, hopefully you can return to wasting time soon.

That depends whether you want us to believe you rather than just assume you’re lying about everything. Because clearly you’re economical with the truth on your order form and in your T&Cs.

if I say I am telling the truth in writing with my full ID visible, then that is good enough.

How do you find that goes down in a court of law?

p.s. I know who Junkyard is because I’ve actually met him

tracer, you forgot this: (save where set out below)

If you requested Us to begin the performance of any obligations under a contract between you and Us during the cancellation period, you shall pay Us an amount which is in proportion to what has been performed until you have communicated to Us your cancellation, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract. You agree and acknowledge that We may at Our absolute discretion deduct such sums as We deem reasonable and in proportion from the deposit which We hold from you to satisfy your obligations in this respect including but not limited to any costs which We have incurred in reliance on Your request.

Which seems to suggest a fee may be changed on cancellation….

WHO ARE YOU? No-one knows. So less of the “proof” gobspittle, because if I say I am telling the truth in writing with my full ID visible, then that is good enough.

I think more folk know me on here than you but that has no bearing on the truth if what you claimed. Anyone can see that whether they know me or not. the fact we know your name is hardly conclusive proof you are telling the truth. It completely irrelevant.
Clearly you claiming something is not good enough for me [ trust me its not personal I like evidence more than statements with no evidence and appeal to a persons personal authority/probity] so either post up the evidence or dont- I shall take this as a long rambling no i wont prove my claim and you can take it that my opinion is that the most likely inference to make here is that you wont because you cannot.
PS I said simply Yes or no would do …I hope you are better at writng Terms and conditions than reading them 😉

The thing you are missing, Junkyard, is WHO THE HELL ARE *YOU*?

So less of the “proof” gobspittle

😀

they abide by consumer law

Did you really think you’d get away with that claim give you actually linked to:

If you requested Us to begin the performance of any obligations under a contract between you and Us during the cancellation period, you shall pay Us an amount which is in proportion to what has been performed until you have communicated to Us your cancellation, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract. You agree and acknowledge that We may at Our absolute discretion deduct such sums as We deem reasonable

https://www.leasingoptions.co.uk/termsandconditions

EDIT: rickmeister got there way before me. 🙁

Sorry to have facilitated your return to productivity, hopefully you can return to wasting time soon.

It’s a given!

only if you request they provide a service during the 14 days – you’d have to specifically request that, the standard contract wouldn’t invoke that. It’s also standard boilerplate relating to the supply of services within the 14 day period – it’s unlikely here that they would provide any such service given the car isn’t going to be delivered in that timeframe – it’s simply included for completeness and full compliance with the law on setting out consumer rights.

I didn’t forget it at all, like most of ling’s ramblings it’s not relevant.

[/quote]

As above, but I particularly enjoy the way you’ve removed all context from that 😆

Gobby granted its an amusing ad hom but its an odd way to act when she could slap me about the head and body with the proof and really prove her point /rub my nose in it.
Thankfully she chose not to as she is not the impolite confrontational type 😉

only if you request they provide a service during the 14 days

Nope, they’re talking about services to do with the purchase. Not additional services unrelated to the purchase.

You’re not allowed to sign your rights away. They can’t hold you to a contract where you say “You can charge me costs if I cancel within 14 days, in exchange do the paperwork quicker for me.”

she could slap me about the head and body with the proof and really prove her point /rub my nose in it.

I agree with you.

Still made me laugh though.

Ling – Please, please, please, slap Junky about the head and body.

I can’t believe anyone is still reading all this, never mind actually posting!

outofbreath – Member

You agree and acknowledge that We may at Our absolute discretion deduct such sums as We deem reasonable and in proportion from the deposit

EDIT: rickmeister got there way before me.

Wow!!! I can add that to *MY* order form, too???

Great, another way to rip customers off! (sheesh)

Thanks so much, I will pay £20 commission for further useful suggestions like that!!! Go for it!

– Ling

Junkyard – lazarus

Gobby granted its an amusing ad hom but its an odd way to act when she could slap me about the head and body…

Outrageous suggestion! …I’m not Kevin Spacey, you know.

– Ling

I don’t know how you think I’m suggesting any different – though I’m fairly sure they’d have to actually supply the customer with a service.

In any case, that doesn’t refute the assertion that they comply with consumer law at all – providing services within the 14 day cancellation window at the customer’s specific request is a standard part of the law, as discussed previously. Hence as I mentioned earlier, when I’ve engaged a solicitor they’ve sent me a specific and separate form to fill in to authorise them to work at risk within the 14 day window.

Of course ling just ignores all that – but maybe she knows the law better than my solicitor.

STEP 4 ~ Deposit Payment
Upon underwriting acceptance, before we can proceed to order your vehicle, we will request a vehicle holding deposit of £250.00, this can be paid by cheque or credit card and is fully refunadable upon delivery of the vehicle. Upon receipt of this we will place your vehicle order with the Dealership/Manufacturer. Please note under the Distance Selling Regulation (DSR) you the consumer waive your right to cancel the order once Applied Leasing Ltd have begun to source the vehicle, therefore if you cancel your order before delivery, you may lose this deposit by way of compensation.
From aracers first link again a clear setting out of why and when a fee in that case £250 would be included.
So only ling seems to totally ignore the existence of the regulations.
In answer to the earlier post small claims courts are not courts of record do not set presidents and many cases are default judgements ie you win because the other side caves does not file a defence or doesn’t turn up, rather than full explorations of the facts and law.

I suggest you add all of the following to your T&Cs (given oob forgot to provide you with the context).

You have the right to cancel any contract between you and Us within 14 calendar days without giving any reason. The cancellation period will expire after 14 calendar days from the date of the conclusion of the relevant contract. To exercise the right to cancel, you must inform Us of your decision to cancel by a clear statement in writing. To meet the cancellation deadline, it is sufficient for you to send your communication concerning your exercise of the right to cancel before the cancellation period has expired.

If you cancel a contract between you and Us, We will (save where set out below) reimburse to you all payments received from you. We will make the reimbursement without undue delay, and not later than 14 calendar days after the day on which We are informed about your decision to cancel. Where possible We will make the reimbursement using the same means of payment as you used for the initial transaction, unless you have expressly agreed otherwise or We are unable to do so in which case We shall contact You to agree a suitable method of payment. In any event, you will not incur any fees as a result of the reimbursement.

If you requested Us to begin the performance of any obligations under a contract between you and Us during the cancellation period, you shall pay Us an amount which is in proportion to what has been performed until you have communicated to Us your cancellation, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract. You agree and acknowledge that We may at Our absolute discretion deduct such sums as We deem reasonable and in proportion from the deposit which We hold from you to satisfy your obligations in this respect including but not limited to any costs which We have incurred in reliance on Your request.

Where do I send my invoice for £500 + VAT?

I don’t know how you think I’m suggesting any different – though I’m fairly sure they’d have to actually supply the customer with a service.

In any case, that doesn’t refute the assertion that they comply with consumer law at all – providing services within the 14 day cancellation window at the customer’s specific request is a standard part of the law, as discussed previously. Hence as I mentioned earlier, when I’ve engaged a solicitor they’ve sent me a specific and separate form to fill in to authorise them to work at risk within the 14 day window.

Nope, they’re talking about services to do with the purchase. Not additional services unrelated to the purchase.

You’re not allowed to sign your rights away. They can’t hold you to a contract where you say “You can charge me costs if I cancel within 14 days, in exchange do the paperwork quicker for me.”

This whole thread is a mess and needs sorting out or shutting down.

Ling will take all the free press she can get and will continue to post unnecessary comment s and even more unnecessary Gifs for as long as she can get away with it.

STEP 4 ~ Deposit Payment
Upon underwriting acceptance, before we can proceed to order your vehicle, we will request a vehicle holding deposit of £250.00, this can be paid by cheque or credit card and is fully refunadable upon delivery of the vehicle. Upon receipt of this we will place your vehicle order with the Dealership/Manufacturer. Please note under the Distance Selling Regulation (DSR) you the consumer waive your right to cancel the order once Applied Leasing Ltd have begun to source the vehicle, therefore if you cancel your order before delivery, you may lose this deposit by way of compensation.

From aracers first link again a clear setting out of why and when a fee in that case £250 would be included.

Hang on, isn’t that exaclty what they’re *NOT* allowed to do. They have to accept a cancellation and charge nothing and this bit:

Please note under the Distance Selling Regulation (DSR) you the consumer waive your right to cancel the order once Applied Leasing Ltd have begun to source the vehicle

is illegal.

It’s 14 days from the order regardless of whether the firm has begun to source a vehicle.

So is this claim true:
under the Distance Selling Regulation (DSR) you the consumer waive your right to cancel the order once Applied Leasing Ltd have begun to source the vehicle????

Although it does look like the professional arguers have rolled in.

It does look like it as STW once again dissappear up its own introspective, pedantic fundament…

ling – Member
outofbreath – Member
You agree and acknowledge that We may at Our absolute discretion deduct such sums as We deem reasonable and in proportion from the deposit

EDIT: rickmeister got there way before me.

Wow!!! I can add that to *MY* order form, too???

Great, another way to rip customers off! (sheesh)

Thanks so much, I will pay £20 commission for further useful suggestions like that!!! Go for it!
I can save you £20 ling you already have such a clause on the bottom of your order form , that is what you tried to enforce when you demanded £600 from whoever. Glad you agree it’s a way of ripping off customers.

If you are buying at a distance or off-premises, then you are entitled to your full deposit back, regardless of your reasons or any money the dealer has spent.[/url]

Outofbreath I’m not seeking to comment on whether or not that clause will work ,just that the TandCs acknowledge the point and seek to deal with it. My view is the wording is clumsy but appears to seek to bring the contract into the instructions to begin work within the cooling off period exception in the Regulations.

Yes, we agree 🙂

You’re not allowed to sign your rights away. They can’t hold you to a contract where you say “You can charge me costs if I cancel within 14 days, in exchange do the paperwork quicker for me.”

As I pointed out, it’s just boilerplate, I’m struggling to see where it would possibly apply here. The real lawyers on here did point out earlier that if you supply services within the 14 day window (example being a car insurance policy) then the supplier is entitled to charge a proportionate amount for the service supplied before the cancellation. If the car was supplied within the 14 day window then a similar thing might apply (though it’s complicated by the provision o finances – too complicated for me to work out the implications so I won’t comment further).

edit: a real lawyer has spoken – there is an exemption if specific request is made to start work early (as with the forms I fill in with my solicitor), but I have no idea exactly how that works.

Outofbreath I’m not seeking to comment on whether or not that clause will work

It clearly doesn’t. It imposes costs to to with leasing the vehicle within the 14 day period. Which is exaclty what they’re not allowed to do.

Yes, we agree

So if they keep a portion of deposit in that case they are *NOT* “abiding by consumer law” which is where we came in.

crankboy – Member
In answer to the earlier post small claims courts are not courts of record do not set presidents <snip>

I did guffaw at this particular armchair expert… 🙂

Though, to be fair (gasp), it is easy to cock it up with ‘autocockup’ these days 😉

Agreed. But they don’t say they will – they say “If you cancel a contract between you and Us, We will (save where set out below) reimburse to you all payments received from you.”

As discussed the “(save where set out below)” is standard boilerplate and unlikely to apply (and if it did, that would be within the law).

I think we’re actually in agreement here!

I’m not sure if we’re getting confused between two different sets of T&Cs here though – I’m discussing https://www.leasingoptions.co.uk/termsandconditions – I tend to agree that the other ones quoted may not be fully legally compliant, though I note crankboy doesn’t want to quite go that far (and as he points out, unlike ling they do at least acknowledge the existence of the regulations).

Can I just say at this juncture…
This one post is almost at 80k Page impressions.
Please continue.. the STW staff Xmas party is counting on it.

There’s no cooling off period on ad revenues.

🙂

Ah, but does that count Ps frantically pressing F5, F5, F5 ?

Here’s another post for shots!

I think we’re actually in agreement here!

If you agree that leasingoptions T&Cs do not “abide by consumer law” because they state a way for the the company to keep deposit within the 14 days for services that are to do with procurement of a car then we’re in agreement.