Legal advice please – cancelling a new car dispute

Man orders factory build car with extras, changes mind after agreeing to cancellation charges, man pays cancellation charge.

It seems quite clear cut to me, annoying as it may be knowing you’ve wasted your money. It’s really not fair to make someone else take the hit for your buyers regret.

Agreed. Sometimes we make bad decisions, but ethically we should stand by the consequences of them, not try to misuse the law (that is there to protect consumers in genuine cases) to wriggle out of perfectly legitimate and reasonable terms of business.

I hope Ling has screenshots of the parts where OP talks of planning to lie to try and get out of his commitment.

Shitty ethics here from the OP in my opinion – do the right thing. Pay the cancellation charge as per the agreement. It’s the right thing to do.

Yep, yep it does. 😀

Agreed. We need something fresh like

Poopscoop – Member

Genuinely, why?

you really think she got:

After I got 27 emails, Tweets and FB messages from you within 10 minutes

There are many folk on this forum with a finger on the Report-Post trigger, but that would be impressive even for them!

I’ve asked the OP not to post further on here whilst I help him sort this out.

I don’t think Mrs Ling realises how many solicitors there are lurking on the STW forums (other than residential conveyancers who have all been killed off).

After we’ve dealt with this I’ll post an explanation of the legal position.

If you could explain the moral position as well, that’d be grand.

jonnyboi – Member
Ling should diversify into online bike sales.

I diversified into Harleys a few years ago, and look what happened: https://www.facebook.com/lingscars/posts/1141330042663566

petefromearth – Member
Someone put up a link to her website so I’m guessing she could see all the traffic coming from STW

Correct.

martinhutch – Member
Too slow, Bob…

martinhutch – Member
Would be unsurprised to see Ling pop up on this thread. Which would be entertaining.
And just to clear up any confusion,

“After I got 27 emails, Tweets and FB messages from you within 10 minutes”
Does not refer to me!

Of course you didn’t email me etc. I was having fun…

vickypea – Member
Interesting but why would you ‘work on trust’ rather than ask for a deposit?

I understand it’s unusual, but when customers are genuine, it works really well, as 99% don’t cancel. It’s when they order a big car and then just cancel (and lie to me) when it goes wrong.

If I just adsorbed all costs, then in truth, like insurance fraud, every genuine customer pays as prices have to go up to accommodate the dodgy ones.

Poopscoop – Member

She was obviously simply alerted by a member (I’m assuming, rather sadly) that someone dared to contest her companies policy and she joined up in the late hours of last night. Her scouring is obviously done for her perhaps?

I have:
a) Google Alerts and the OP specified my company.
b)I monitor my server, so I get messages like this: “REFERRER ALERT: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/legal-advice-please-cancelling-a-new-car-dispute
There have been 5 or more visits from this referrer over the last 15 minutes!”
c) I check visitors (esp. when jumps in visitors), so can see who is on my website and the referring page.

It’s not rocket science…

zanelad – Member
The OP’s gone very quiet. What’s the betting he regrets posting about this now

I’m liking Ling though.

I created this situation, just for your pure entertainment. Pay as you view, please 🙂

cloudnine – Member
I’m really quite impressed by ling’s skills with the quote function.

I have been trained to click appropriate buttons.

sr0093193 – Member
14 day cooling off period. Legally entitled to cancel without penalty. You can write what you like in the paperwork; he cant sign away his legal rights, and it would be classed as an unfair contract term.

14 days ON THE FINANCE. You think Skoda’s factory in Kvasiny, Czech Republic, will cancel a car within 14-days?

This post shows the modern disease: an example is that someone thinks they can order a specced £30k+ car and have no consequences. People need to accept IT’S A BIG THING TO ORDER, and get a grip.

Poopscoop – Member
Mrs/Miss ling,
I forgot you joined the forum tonight at the behest of social media chums, as a car dealer, not cyclist. Leaser/dealer… semantics. YES, WE KNOW A CAR IS THE BIG METAL THING by the way.

I’m trying to make clear the differentiation between a finance agreement and a car. They are quite separate.

aracer – Member
ling » So, there are 2 things
1) the car.
2) the finance.

Which are inextricably linked – you cancel one, you cancel the other,

That’s true in a way (ie you cancel the finance as you are legally entitled to do and then you can’t fund the car, so implicitly the car is cancelled too. However, there are COSTS in CANCELLING THE CAR.

In any case, this customer did not cancel the finance, he cancelled the car, as he has admitted. His “ploy” as he outlined foolishly was to claim he didn’t like the T&Cs of the finance and cancel it in the future, to cause the cancelling of the car to seem a by-product of that.

That could be regarded as fraudulent. The way he describes it in the post, implies he will overcome the car charge he clearly knows about by lying about the finance suitability. That’s very close to fraudulent behaviour. At the very least it’s wrong. And he will not get away with that.

Poopscoop – Member

You owe £4 million for the cars you don’t own at the moment then why is £500 (plus VAT) so desperately important to your business model?

I don’t owe £4 million. I have no contingent liability. What I do have is the honour of standing on my word, to the suppliers.

Poopscoop – Member

He/she didn’t set out to lose you £500(plus vat) and possibly used your company as you previously showed great customer service. Why prove him wrong in that choice?

But he lied about the cancellation and his paperwork, on this forum! To you and others. Letting people who lie get away with their clear responsibilities isn’t GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE. It’s doing a dis-service to other more genuine customers who will end up subsidising the OP’s behaviour. But… they won’t need to subsidise it, because he will pay, if not before, then after a Small Claims Court claim.

I believe that the OP began this discussion in good faith it seems but if the owner of this company knows exactly who the OP is then talk directly to him/her rather than calling the person out on a biking forum for goodness sakes.

I have, last night. His very strange response was to deny it was him who posted it. It was a “friend” apparently. He told me at 20:51 yesterday “Lol that’s not me that’s someone who’s looking for advice on my behalf. I can’t control where they source their advice from.”

So the Op is lying in so many ways, it’s hard to unravel it. Some people are just like that. I’m not.

– Ling

Oh…. You mean she lied? I see now.

No,I tend to think that a person so enamoured of carefully copying and pasting the ripped word would be a stickler for the truth in all honestly.

Just spotted this great deal on a cancelled order:

Forum favorite, Superb (see what I did there), spec.. factory fresh, zero miles

Skoda Superb 2.0, TDI, 16v, 150bhp, Sportline, Hatchback, 5 door, 1968cc, Diesel, DSG Automatic, Black Magic Metallic Paint, Extras: Rear LED lights, ISOFIX on Front passenger seats, Front and Rear Parking sensors, Rear Window Wiper.

Pop your tin foil hat on and visit Lings Cars…. £500 + vat deposit to drive it away….

Scratches Lings off my list for a new motor.

Bumps Lings to top of list for a new motor

geordiemick00 – Member

For the record I shall be saying no more because this is now in the hands of a solicitor and I’ve been advised not to add anything else until further notice.

Good! That’s the advice I gave him last night: “I suggest you take better legal advice than the Singletrack forum. I advise Citizens Advice or a Solicitor. Make sure you print, and show them THE WHOLE TRANSCRIPT and the signed order form, and your Singletrack comments.”

He’s already added enough to his hole. Stopping digging, is a good idea, TBH.

Ling

legend – Member
Bumps Lings to top of list for a new motor

I can’t see me ever buying a new car, but if I did….

Ling, you neglected to say why you thought it appropriate to threaten the op (who may or may not be the person you think it to be… Which is bad either way I might add) with revealing their personal data on an open ‘net forum.

Was that an unwise threat in hindsight or do you still assert that it is perfectly within your companies remit?

Oh… but HANG ON!

It’s not *HIM*, remember?

Last night he wrote to me “Hi Ling
Lol that’s not me that’s someone who’s looking for advice on my behalf. I can’t control where they source their advice from.”

Maybe someone should ask the OP if he is himself, or a friend of himself?

_ Ling

I wonder how many of those scratching things off things would have a differing opinion if someone like Brant did this?

While I find Ling’s approach unique to say the least, it does seem the OP started this thread, pretended it wasn’t him, then confirmed it was by stating he wasn’t going to say anymore.

He may well be able to weasel out of the charge, I don’t know, and unlike Curt IANAL, but there does seem to be a moral question to ask, and possibly answer.

As for whether I would buy a car from Ling. Probably not, but then I know I can’t afford one 8)

Bumps Lings to top of list for a new motor

You’re just shamelessly trying to get a free gift

If you wish to portray your company as whiter than white whilst attempting to undermine the op I have to ask again:

Ling, you neglected to say why you thought it appropriate to threaten the op (who may or may not be the person you think it to be… Which is bad either way I might add) with revealing their personal data on an open ‘net forum.
Was that an unwise threat in hindsight or do you still assert that it is perfectly within your companies remit?

Perhaps not your style but a yes or no would clear it up?

Bumps Lings to top of list for a new motor

Just don’t fail your credit check then get all arsey about it! (From Ling’s FB page, which is a hoot).

Boo, link not working – 24th October post on her FB. (Most definitely unsafe for work language tho)

Who is Brant? I don’t necc agree with OP, I just would not want to do business with someone whose approach is like that. Personal choice right..

Who is Brant? You must be ne…..oh you are. Apologies. Brant Richards is a god among men who can get STW forum dwellers to buy bridges from him if he so chose.

fyi Martinhutch that link is bust
Ahh on one dude. I know. Do I have to go and find out how his customer service works or will you explain?

I just would not want to do business with someone whose approach is like that.

Call people out for lying? Seems fair. Obviously the personal details bit not so much

Well we don’t really know who is lying do we.
Her approach is unprofessional. I have no expectation on the OP to be prof. I do from businesses though. I don’t like it, personal choice, just not for me.

5plusn8 – Member

Well we don’t know who is lying do we.

We’ve got a reasonable idea

out the blue i’ve had a lot of interest to go back into my previous trade which includes a company vehicle as none of them do car allowance.

So, I played safe and emailed Lingscars and asked to cancel.

My plan is to state i’m not happy with the T’s & C’s with the finance and that may be my get out clause?

Ling – fancy price matching an Audi A4 avant im about to push the button on?

I don’t see that as relevant, either he has a right to cancel or not.

Eh? You said we didn’t know who was lying, so it’s very relevant.

Of course he has a right to cancel. For the fee detailed in his comms with Ling. The fee needs to be a reasonable reflection of the actual costs to the business of the cancellation, and she still has a duty to make efforts to minimise it, regardless of the err.. strained relationship with the OP.

Eh? You said we didn’t know who was lying, so it’s very relevant.

My point is even when people have the right to cancel they still feel the need to “justify” it. His statement there is not relevant to his right to cancel,or not.

Ling has no right to attempt to take the moral high ground at this juncture.

The op, whether it be the person she thinks it is or not is an individual who may well have felt verbally bullied into a corner. Who knows? I would suggest Lings personal correspondence is likely to have been even more confrontational than it has been on here. Again, just an assumption though.

Anyway…

What I see as pretty down right conclusive is that the owner of a large company with the most personal of financial data and info on its books threatens to potentially breach data protection laws on a whim. Simply to try to prove a point.

On a biking forum.

If anyone wants to justify that, crack on. Legally or ethically.

On a biking forum.

The OP started the discussion “On a biking forum.” not Ling

5plusn8 – Member
My point is even when people have the right to cancel they still feel the need to “justify” it. His statement there is not relevant to his right to cancel,or not.

Absolutely none of that was mentioned in your previous post, seems like you’ve changed tac to suit missing the part where the OP mentioned he might do a little lying. As mentioned by others, he has every right to cancel, that’s not being disputed, he just might have to pay to do so

I have no clue what the legality of the situation is (although I’d bet Ling probably knows as her business has been around a while, likely has had a lawyer go over the T&Cs and sounds like it’s already been tested and upheld in court) but I think Ling’s responses so far have been great. Maybe mildly aggressive for the resident flounces but on the whole just concisely stating the facts (at least from her perspective).

As for her just absorbing the costs – why should she? In this case the OP has clearly changed their mind AFTER signing a form agreeing to cancellation charges! I would think the only challenge would be that the cancellation charges might have to be clearly stated (which they don’t seem to be, just a warning they may be over £500) and reasonable (which unless she is trying to profit off the cancellation I’m sure she can evidence via dealer charges & her own admin fees).

If I was the OP I would certainly challenge the £500 figure but mostly as it’s a lot of money rather than I think she’s profiteering. Ultimately though I’d suck it up as my problem and pay – hell at least the situation that’s caused the issue is a positive one rather than being made redundant or something.

And no I am not a customer of Ling’s (I probably would be after this thread if I was thinking about PCH but I’m not).

Sorry. Three mention alert not working due to “no notifications whilst driving” iOS update.

There was the bloke who had custom hemmed trousers who tried to return them as they didn’t fit in the waist.

We let him anyhow.

Custom specced items not covered by distance selling regs.

There was the bloke who had custom hemmed trousers who tried to return them as they didn’t fit in the waist.

Things that make buying a car look cheap….

legend – Member
On a biking forum.
The OP started the discussion “On a biking forum.” not Ling

Indeed he did, a long term member asking for some info. He may well regret it now, who knows?

It does not justify a company or a person acting as a spokesperson for that company to treat data protection as a minor concern to be used as a bludgeon to attempt to quieten any negative comments or questions about the company. The op might not know better, she should.

If she doesn’t she shouldn’t be in the position she is in within the company. Simple as that.

In her position it’s also at the very prat imprudent to join a forum she has no disguising with to perpetuate an argument.
Again, the op might not know better, she should.

At least the last point is not potentially illegal, it just shows poor judgment.

Again, don’t come on here pretending to be whiter than white whilst threatening to post customer details on a public forum.

Roll your eyes, call him in the morning… Sure. Don’t threaten to potentially break the law to score points.

Poopscoop – Member

Ling, you neglected to say why you thought it appropriate to threaten the op (who may or may not be the person you think it to be… Which is bad either way I might add) with revealing their personal data on an open ‘net forum.

Was that an unwise threat in hindsight or do you still assert that it is perfectly within your companies remit?

I said: I reserve the right to name and shame if he continues to lie). Well… of couse I still do. I mean, whoever the OP is (he tells me it is not him posting here) was very quick to name *ME*. He could have easily kept it generic, which in turn would have avoided this thread.

I don’t tend to name and shame, but only yesterday was quite specific (including posting a photo) about a man who tried to defraud me. The Facebook post is here: https://www.facebook.com/lingscars/photos/a.824042401059000.1073741828.823704361092804/1141922595937644/?type=3 and the police arrested him and he went to prison.

I would probably wait until a court rules in my favour before disclosing this customer’s details, I think.

Things that make buying a car look cheap….

To be fair, he had actually paid for them with actual money.

At 8:10 this morning, I messaged the customer who claims he is *NOT* the OP, and said: “Your “friend” is still posting on that Cycle forum. I suggest you tell “him/her” to stop :)”

The customer read that message one minute later at 08:11, so is on the ball over this stuff, but didn’t reply me.

Maybe the customer needs to go into a dark room and have a deep conversation with himself, about who is posting what, where… Take a torch and a mirror, is my advice to him.

– Ling

Well we don’t know who is lying do we.

We’ve got a reasonable idea

We know ling did, then played the Edinburgh defense

I think we all come out of this terribly.

Ling for going full Ling (but see why she had to)
OP for naming Ling and setting out his plans online (no one likes to pay £500 I guess)
STW’ers posting (Vampires the lot of us 8) )