Legal advice please – cancelling a new car dispute

I’m going out at lunchtime to buy a hat. The wedding will be spectacular.

Respect to the STW lawyers who stepped in and tried to help.
rickmeister – very, very good, thanks. The ‘surprised it’s not an X’ comment was genius.
My overall feeling is that I respect Ling for engaging here. It may be that she is not legally entitled to pursue the charge but morally she does at least have a case to argue and fair play for being willing to do so here. The world would be a better place if more MPs/CEOs weren’t scared to engage on STW :). I also wish, generally, that more people stood by their moral obligations but that ship has sailed it seems, for now at least.

Bravo Bear, well played. 😆

@ the baron Can you take your actual fact based discussion somewhere else this thread is all about unsubstantiated legal claims with little basis in reality never mind fact

I’m just here so I can look back in future and say “I was there”

bearnecessites – Superb!

bearnecessites – Superb!

Whatever you do, don’t retract that comment.

It’ll cost you £500 + VAT.

Going rate for cancelling a Superb apparently.

Superb!

True in so many ways

Jaffa cakes. Apricot Jam?!

Apricot pulp flavoured with tangerine oil apparently.

don’t retract that comment.

What about a Rapid retraction with humble Feliciatations would I get Favorit treatment?

wwaswas – Member 
Must ask, who is Fred?
You are and I claim my £5!

I thought it was me?

Going rate for cancelling a Superb apparently.

^ ripple of applause

I also wish, generally, that more people stood by their moral obligations but that ship has sailed it seems, for now at least.

Sadly, the moral obligation also lies with a business wanting to penalise an individual for cancelling an order that blatantly falls within a consumer act that has been totally side stepped….

This £500 + VAT…..

the value added to so many people’s day by this thread now means that the VAT on the £500 is bigger than the agreement for the car.

It can be financed if you want, but only by your mate brother-in-law family member random internet stranger. paperwork’s in the mail, just put an X in the box, and if you pull out within 14 days there’s only an admin fee to pay.

“The only solicitor’s costs you can claim in the small claims track are:
the costs of legal advice and preparing the case up to £260 if you are claiming that the trader must put something right, rather than pay you compensation. This is called specific performance”
Is that a legal cost?…

Yes, thanks for pointing that out. Sorry if I mislead anyone.

So I’m guessing that this will end with both parties not wanting to waste any more time with it, and agreeing on a fee much lower than £500+VAT, just to see the end of it.

…and a punch up at the wedding reception, no doubt.

Nothing

I also wish, generally, that more people stood by their moral obligations but that ship has sailed it seems, for now at least.

I think most people who promise to do something do it, even if they can’t be legally compelled to do it.

…but yeah, there’s a fair few that don’t and it’s annoying & frustrating for the rest of us.

I just hope my kids don’t see this thread. “Daddy, I have no legal obligation to pick the lego up as I promised therefore I won’t be doing it. I refer you to the case of Ling vs Simon (2017)”

outofbreath – Member
“no costs are awarded” may not be entirely correct.
I should have said no legal costs. The other side can’t spend £350,000 on represention and claim it back so it’s pretty low risk.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court

Expenses can be awarded against you if you lose

You shouldn’t have the other party’s lawyer’s fees awarded against you – but you could find yourself paying certain expenses of theirs if you lose, and you won’t get the court fees back. You’ll have to pay within 14 days of the hearing, but you can ask for more time to pay the costs and anything else by instalments once the court has seen full details of your income, expenses, assets and liabilities. You could end up paying:

£90/day For loss of earnings or leave to attend a hearing, plus reasonable travelling expenses for each of the other side and any necessary witnesses they take along to court.

£750 If the judge gave them permission to get evidence from an expert, eg, having to get an expert to inspect a sofa for a fault.

Not exactly:

CPR 27.14(g) provides that costs may be awarded on the Small Claims Track if a party behaves unreasonably.

Got to be a dead cert in this case, surely? 😉

Not exactly:

CPR 27.14(g) provides that costs may be awarded on the Small Claims Track if a party behaves unreasonably.

Yup, I’m wrong about costs.

However under CPR 27.14(g) it seems pretty rare:

https://keoghs.co.uk/keoghs-insight/aware/costs-orders-for-unreasonable-behaviour-in-small-claims

The CPR does not set out what constitutes unreasonable behaviour and there is very little case law on the subject to assist. In many cases, especially where the claimant is a litigant in person, the court has been reluctant to allow a defendant to recover costs for the claimant’s unreasonable behaviour.

geordiemick00 – Member
7 days ago I ordered a new car from Lingscars.com..

Anyways, I printed off the order form, signed it and scanned it and sent it back a week ago.

On the paperwork it does state that i may be liable for cancellation costs (no amounts specified) and now she says she wants £500 + VAT to cancel.

My plan is to state i’m not happy with the T’s & C’s with the finance and that may be my get out clause?

But to her i’e signed the order and agreed to the T’s & C’s so tough.

Sadly, the moral obligation also lies with a business wanting to penalise an individual for cancelling an order that blatantly falls within a consumer act that has been totally side stepped…

@OP – I was careful to say generally but given you’ve quoted me… as you, and/or the other fella, understood and signed to agree that a cancellation charge might be sought how much are/were you willing to pay?

I feel I should contribute to this thread, so here goes:
I’m riding to Ling Gill this weekend, described as ”wild and untamed”.

I’m revising my previous estimate upwards.

Bump!

Well I gave up at about page 17.

Summary since then?

Summary since then?

Bit windy and a few showers, actually.

Summary since then?

Much the same, poopscoop roams the thread looking to blamestorm.

Though as Mick kind of pointed out, a trader has a moral (and legal) obligation to abide by consumer protection laws. Maybe you should be asking ling how much she’s willing to pay for not meeting her moral obligations by putting that clause on her order form in the first place?

People back out of house purchases prior to contract for all sorts of dubious reasons. However an unforeseen change in financial circumstances is just one of those things. Although the OP admits he perhaps rushed into things, and giving him the full benefit of the doubt, Isn’t that what we have here? It’s not as if the OP found the car cheaper else where or fancied a T6 instead.

a trader has a moral (and legal) obligation to abide by consumer protection laws

Ling has obeyed the consumer protection laws. She’s legally entitled to ask for cash that she’s not legally able to recover. She’s legally entitled to ask her customers to sign an uneforcable contract term.

Note: Edited post to avoid misinterpretation.

a trader has a moral (and legal) obligation to abide by consumer protection laws

She’s quite entitled to ask for cash that she’s not legally able to recover. She’s quite entitled to ask her customers to sign an uneforcable contract term.

She’s morally entitled to mislead her customers?

Well neither of those are terribly moral things to do, even if they’re legal (I suspect trading standards might have something to say…)

I think This makes an interesting read in the context of this thread.

I think This makes an interesting read in the context of this thread.

Am I going to get rickrolled if I follow that link?

What I am still amazed by, is someone who is skint, would consider pissing £440 a month against the wall on a Skoda.

That’s the maddest thing on this whole thread.

ajantom – Member
I think This makes an interesting read in the context of this thread.

That was an interesting link Alan, hadn’t really thought of it in the teleological context. Cheers.

Well neither of those are terribly moral things to do, even if they’re legal (I suspect trading standards might have something to say…)

Yep. Deeply concerned that a contract is being sent out for signature a) before finance is in place b) no cooling off period c) attempt to swerve B by claiming the car is a special order when comms clearly state its a stock car in the system.

gobuchul – Member
What I am still amazed by, is someone who is skint, would consider pissing £440 a month against the wall on a Skoda.

Sales guy.

Will the marriage between Ling and Mick be blessed with children Micklings, or will Mick withdraw at the last moment ?

That’s the maddest thing on this whole thread

Have you seen her website?