Leaving a 10 month old with in-laws for a week

Molgrips, there are times that men have to just shut up. Evangelising about breastfeeding is most definitely one of these times.

Just giving the facts.

Personally, I'm involved in family decisions relating to the upbring of our kid, and I appreciate that. I can't do the feeding, but I can offer help and support as best I can.

Except I've yet to see one as that is just fallacy.

Is it? Do tell. Always interested in more and better facts.

Molgrips – you still have an incredibly idealised view of children and childcare. remember others experiences may differ and just because you have children does not mean you know it al

For f*cking hell's sake! Do you really think I am saying every single mother and child could perfectly breast feed? For christ's sake stop being so f*cking stupid!

What I am saying is that breast milk is better for your kid – we all know that. Why on earth would anyone think that because of that I am recommending that everyone do nothign else and kill themselves and their kids based on christ knows what.

You people are thick as f*cking pigsh*t sometimes 🙁

The other thing I am saying is that production is based on how much is drunk. So there's a catch 22 – you give your baby formula, she drinks less boob, so less is produced, so you give more formula. A lot of people I've talked to don't realise this. You don't feed your baby, she feeds from you. That's meant to be a useful piece of advice, not f*cking evangelism.

molgrips – Member

Better to force feed on the breast and baby take less

Boobs soon get up to producing what the baby takes. That's why mixing bf and bottle is a recipe for failure quite often (but not always), because baby never takes enough from the breast to get it going properly.

Just giving the facts.

Unfortunatly your "facts" are wrong

This mechanism fails fairly often. A lot of mothers have to top up with bottle feeding because they don't produce enough milk.

What you say here and what you claim you said in your last post are two very different things.

Why on earth would anyone think that because of that I am recommending that everyone do nothign else and kill themselves and their kids based on christ knows what.

Based on your exact words Molgrips.

We were given similar advice to molgrips (though without the swearing and ranting 🙂 )

I can vividly remember the morning, about a week into breastfeeding, when my wife woke me in amazement at her suddenly enormous chest. 😀

Our experience so far is that it takes her boobs about three days to catch up with increased demand during growth spurts etc.

The NHS class we did encouraged "flutter feeding" even when the boobs were dry as it apparently stimulates more production. They also stressed that if we couldn't feed from boob for any reason (i.e. Infection) then she should keep expressing anyway to keep up demand.

But yes, we also know a mum that just couldn't produce enough milk regardless what they tried.

You people are thick as f*cking pigsh*t sometimes

Is pigshit particularly thick? I mean, surely it's dependant on the diet of the pig? What if it's a suckling piglet not yet on solids?

And isn't it all relative? I mean, if you're suggesting someone is dense, isn't a truly solid material, like granite or lead a better choice for comparison? Because compared to granite or lead, maybe pigshit isn't all that thick after all?

Or are you comparing it to yoghurt?

Unfortunatly wrong – some mothers never produce enough milk.

True

Its fairly common

I thought the figure was somewhere around 4% which to my mind is not fairly common.

It's not that I'm bothered about the choices people make, different choices suit different people and different circumstances. But women should be able to make that decision on the basis of informed knowledge.

Sadly in this country even medical professionals aren't as informed as they should be.

Edit: i have boobs so feel qualified to comment 😉

My kids have thrived without breast feeding, my wife struggled as it was twins. They have more developed speech than their peers and I've not noticed any higher propencity to get illness.

Molgrips, you do sound a bit evangelical

A lot of mothers have to top up with bottle feeding because they don't produce enough milk.

A lot of mothers top up with bottle feeding because they're told normal feeding cues and growth spurts are signs that they are not producing enough milk by people who should know better. Mixed feeding before breastfeeding is established often results in failure.

Our and the mainly the wife's decision as yes it's her body decision was based on advice from several midwives and obstetric gynaecologists consultants. Who all gave us similar answers yes breast is little better but only a little and not always the best for many mothers for various reasons not just the ability to produce milk. We went for the bottles based on this.

For f*cking hell's sake! Do you really think I am saying every single mother and child could perfectly breast feed? For christ's sake stop being so f*cking stupid!

It's the way your post came across, Mr Angry.

My kids have thrived without breast feeding, my wife struggled as it was twins. They have more developed speech than their peers and I've not noticed any higher propencity to get illness.

Exactly same here in fact my kids are rarely ill or ever have been. Except for the twins bit and the peers bit.

You'd voluntarily be parted from your baby for a whole week? 😯

Re breastfeeding and without reading the entire post, 6 months is long enough.

The Bloke's Guide To Babies had sound advice regarding breastfeeding.

It basically said something like "as a bloke it is your job to give your wife 100% support for breastfeeding… and if she cannot or needs to stop then it is your job to give her 100% support with that too"

You'd voluntarily be parted from your baby for a whole week?

Yes.

I think we've established that I am an awful, selfish parent who doesn't take his responsibility seriously. 🙄

You'd voluntarily be parted from your baby for a whole week?

Yeah why not? It's a week not a life time.

I think you need to decide whether you and your wife will be able to really relax and enjoy yourself whilst on holiday without the baby and possibly do a weekend test run before making a decision.

Some can enjoy themselves whilst away some can't, some imagine they can but only find out they can't when they get there.

I've known a couple of friends who really didn't enjoy much looked forward to weekends away because of their anxiety – baby was fine!

Each to their own I guess.

Nothing to do with selfishness or responsibility tbh. When my wife was pregnant I read endless posts on STW about how I wouldn't have time to ride my bike, wouldn't have time for this or that etc etc…it actually never occurred to me that I might choose NOT to ride my bike and spend time with my baby instead 😆

If you can be parted for a week then I'd say go for it

If you can get her off breast feeding long before you go away then I guess she'll miss you less than you, and especially the Mrs, will miss her. My last baby hung on for 16months, wouldn't wean! He hadn't read the baby book! Good luck 😉

Based on your exact words Molgrips.

What, I recommended that people starve their kids? Not sure about that one.

Right, sorry for getting extremely wound up, but really some people were assuming the most ridiculous possible interpretation of what I'd said.

Just to clarify:

If I say that bf works this or that way, that doesn't mean every single human combination is definitely going to behave the exact same way. If I say humans have two legs, this is an acceptable statement is it not, despite the fact that many don't.

I do not advocate the starving of kids

I do not advocate plunging mothers into cycles of depression and feelings of inadequacy.

I would have thought the above was blatantly obvious, but I guess not to everyone!

Leaving baby whilst you go away?
Adults determined to play
At what cost to the child
This week to be wild?
I wonder what allah would say.

Sincerely,
D Belstein

Whilst breast feeding isn't for everyone, and doesn't always work, some of the health benefits of breastfeeding are really quite shocking – for example it reduces the likelihood of cot death, making the risk 66% of the risk to a bottle fed baby, and also protects against gastro interinal diseases, another big cause of infant sickness and death, reducing the risk to be somewhere between 15 and 33% of the risk that a bottle fed baby is up against (both in the first six months).

Load of research into this eg:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9363419

Essentially the short of it is: your baby is significantly more likely to die if you don't breastfeed.
The good news however is that general infant death rates are low, so we're still talking low death rates even when you multiply them by somewhere between 2 and 6 for the bottle fed babies, but breastfeeding isn't a minor difference, and it is stupid to argue otherwise.

On the other hand, it is clearly wrong to demonize people who don't breastfeed, as clearly there are all manner of reasons why some people don't manage it, but we still shouldn't do that by trying to hide the massive health benefits as some people seem to.

Joe

Is pigshit particularly thick? I mean, surely it's dependant on the diet of the pig? What if it's a suckling piglet not yet on solids?
And isn't it all relative? I mean, if you're suggesting someone is dense, isn't a truly solid material, like granite or lead a better choice for comparison? Because compared to granite or lead, maybe pigshit isn't all that thick after all?
Or are you comparing it to yoghurt?

Lovl – great post 🙂

Anyway, who cares how a baby feeds – just be sure to use disposable nappies. 😉

Our little boy had terrible acid reflux. After every feed he cried lot then threw up everywhere. Took two weeks to get it diagnosed and we had to mix baby Gaviscon then feed it to him via a syringe before every single feed. But Mrs Matt was totally determined to carry on. Bottle feeding would have been easier as you can mix in anti reflux stuff. Anyway really glad she persisted. The reflux went at six months once he weaned as he is very healthy.

Well worth sticking to bf if at all possible IMO.

Mrs Ho hum did it for about a week with each of our children, but could not keep it up because things became too painful and she had had a c section for each birth (2 emergencies and 1 planned), so I guess she was also well knackered.

We were told that before the milk comes in fully that colostrum is produced and this is full of antibodies which really helps to boost baby's immune system.

My wife had wanted to breastfeed for as long as possible but it just did not work out and at least when she went onto the bottle I could help out a bit more allowing her to recover from the surgery she had gone through.

Look at other cultures; babies left with other family members with no ill effects on the children whatsoever.

Yeah, but in those cultures the kids see the other family members every day, and accept them as their normal carers, rather than…

The in-laws do live a fair distance away from us. They currently get to see her roughly every five weeks

My Granny use to always say "They nah thu arn" and she was right they do.

For you southern Jessies that "They know their own, what what what!"

I'm curious, Drac, are you also a southern Jessie? It seems peculiar that you feel the need to phoneticise your granny's speech if it sounds normal to you.

God no.

It seems peculiar that you feel the need to phoneticise your granny's speech if it sounds normal to you.

That makes no sense does it.

Leaving baby whilst you go away?
Adults determined to play
At what cost to the child
This week to be wild?
I wonder what allah would say.

Sincerely,
D Belstein

😆

Oy vey…

That makes no sense does it.

Sorry – in northern hard man for you:
Ba gum it be strange how tha writs down sounds thy granny maks when t' thee it be normal.

Why would you not want to include your daughter in your life going forward?

We were big travellers before kids, now we do a bit less (funds you know) but what we do is centred on experience for the kids. Farm stays, beach holidays and the likes.
As they get older we'll get more adventurous I'm sure.
But no, I don't treat my kids like snowflakes, we just have two children who we are great friends with as well as being our kids – I enjoy their company.

Oh, and without reading all the threads above that digressed into breastfeeding. Some people can, some can't, some choose not to. That's a personal choice I'd say, and has nowt to do with the original post – unless mum is planning on storing a few litres before she goes, but that's another thread as well I think!

Why would you not want to include your daughter in your life going forward?

Eh?

We're not planning to exclude her from the rest of our lives. We just thought a nice stay with Granny and Grandad might give us the chance for some alone time, a break and some time with our friends.

🙄

.. what we do is centred on experience for the kids. Farm stays, beach holidays and the likes

She's four months old and has already been to the beach twice and been round a kiddies petting farm. 🙂
Funnily enough she wasn't hugely impressed by either. Preferring mainly to sleep, gurgle, feed and defecate.
I doubt she will be quite ready to fully appreciate their subtlety at ten months either.

She's four months old and has already been to the beach twice and been round a kiddies petting farm.
Funnily enough she wasn't hugely impressed by either. Preferring mainly to sleep, gurgle, feed and defecate.

Well of course she did. Can't remember bothering to do any of that sort of stuff with the first one at that age – pretty pointless really unless you've got an older one who's going anyway. I'm sure you could go away for a week now and she wouldn't miss you (though mum might be a different matter).

I doubt she will be quite ready to fully appreciate their subtlety at ten months either.

You'll be surprised. Our littlest loved the beach at 11 months – certainly a huge difference in what she'll be doing in 6 months time.

You asked for an opinion, you got it – I'd be looking to spend the same cash on a holiday that included my kids, that's all.
I stand by what I said though, why wouldn't you want to include them in your life and travels, even now. I know I do with mine (at that age and now).
As for time with the Grandparents, let them tell you what they want, perhaps a sleep over or two may be more appropriate.
But then (take this as a climb down or whatever) your family isn't the same as mine and so what works for won't for me etc. Do as you see fit!

She's four months old and has already been to the beach twice and been round a kiddies petting farm.
Funnily enough she wasn't hugely impressed by either. Preferring mainly to sleep, gurgle, feed and defecate.
I doubt she will be quite ready to fully appreciate their subtlety at ten months either.

How's she getting on with the foreign language tapes, Graham?

I stand by what I said though, why wouldn't you want to include them in your life and travels, even now. I know I do with mine (at that age and now).

You seem to be confusing the concepts of "week" and "life" – a short holiday as a couple away from the kids is perfectly healthy. You could even spend part of it making more kids, without the risk of one of them crying or opening the door while you're at it 🙂

She's four months old and has already been to the beach twice and been round a kiddies petting farm.
Funnily enough she wasn't hugely impressed by either.

I remember the first visit to the Zoo with my eldest, she must have been about two – loads of giraffes, elephants, etc. etc., but what was the animal that most impressed her? A chicken walking around in the petting area. Bah.

I think aracer has issues he was obviously abandoned for 2 minutes in Essex Walter Wilson as a 10 month old child. With no breast feeding and not being included in his parents life activities has had long term effects on him. He's taking a dislike to any people from Yorkshire it seems as all he recall from his supressed memories is the tower of aunt bessies Yorkshire puddings.

He's taking a dislike to any people from Yorkshire

I'm not sure that can really be considered an "issue", tbh.

How's she getting on with the foreign language tapes, Graham?

ROFL! 😀 she does a good bit of Baby Klingon if that counts?

We were going to the beach and petting farm anyway. We brought her along cos, y'know, she's "part of our life going forward" (and in several other directions too) 🙂

That's a very good point molgrim.

Anyway kid free day today ours are at school and gran is picking them up. So I'm moving forward to the toon might have a look in the apple shop and have some nice grub somewhere with the mrs.

Hope our kids don't have anxiety issues it'll be 10 hours since they seen us when we get back.

It basically said something like "as a bloke it is your job to give your wife 100% support for breastfeeding… and if she cannot or needs to stop then it is your job to give her 100% support with that too"

True that. We had 100% breastfed, one around 80%, and the last has moved onto 100% bottle as it's the only way to settle/satisfy him – all before weaning at 6 months, though no 3 may go a few weeks early as he keeps trying to steal my toast. Think he's ready.

That's the thing with our Western society; people have time to worry about things that people elsewhere don't. Fret and fuss about the tiniest details, which in reality don't make the blindest bit of difference. And engage in a war of parental one-upmanship, in the same way they do with their houses, their cars,their clothes, etc. Using their children as weapons in the War of Status.

I think you need to get out more, never mind me 🙂 I'd need a couple of million to even register in the 'Status War' round here, and I'm in no way badly off.

Before I had children, I couldn't give a toss about them, and did whatever I felt like. Now, I'm a soppy old bugger who will often pass up the opportunity for 3 hours of racing to tow a trailer of kids to a nice hill to run up and down. They change your outlook on life t'is all. Sorry if thats a bit Mumsnet for your radical lifestyle dude. If they have 'What Tyres?' threads over there I'll delete my sign on here.

What tyres for breastfeeding then?

Agreed – it may not sound "cool" but playing with/helping/laughing with your kid(s) is bloody brilliant fun.