Labour government making the right noises about cycling.

A Labour minister is talking about having a coherent and funded active transport policy, which can only be good news for cyclists.

Especially after the past two years of culture wars nonsense.

Can’t disagree with a word she says there.

It seems like a win all around, despite what the anti-LTN/anti-ULEZ and other associated nutters seem to think.

Good news.  Now they just need to design them by someone who has ridden a bike since they left school… even better if there was a way to ensure councils swept them and dog owners weren’t making a hazard with their yappy fur babies on string so that you can actually get where you want to go without it being an assault course!

It seems like a win all around, despite what the anti-LTN/anti-ULEZ and other associated nutters seem to think.

There comes a time when those cranks just need to be told to get back in their box. Multiple rounds of council elections have shown that councils that actually deliver on decent infrastructure, including the supposedly controversial LTNs, are re-elected and are popular.

Time for the constant watering down of plans, the appeasement, the backtracking to actually end and for them to be told – you’re a bunch of extremists holding a very minority view, STFU.

It’s brilliant to see a government potentially taking this seriously at last. The only problem I see is that a significant proportion of the UK are just lazy fekkers who won’t do any exercise, of any kind, even if it is just a bit of walking. Riding a bike to so many of them  is just weird, because they can ‘just get in their car’ or why should I go out at all when I can have my takeway delivered by so other wretch.

It will take a concerted effort for a significant amount of time to get the mindset of Mr. & Mrs. Average-UK to see these policies as ‘normal’.

Stick another 20% on fuel tax, people will soon start riding bikes.

We don’t need a large scale cycle network. We need quite side streets and roads linked up for cyclists, and we need short bits of dedicated cycle paths to quickly and easily bypass pinch points and bad junctions.

The only problem I see is that a significant proportion of the UK are just lazy fekkers who won’t do any exercise, of any kind, even if it is just a bit of walking. Riding a bike to so many of them  is just weird, because they can ‘just get in their car’ or why should I go out at all when I can have my takeway delivered by so other wretch.

The issue in the UK is that cycling has always been framed as leisure and/or sport. Not as “a normal thing to do in daily life”. By actually forcing it as a normal thing to do by throttling the ability to drive anywhere and everywhere (via a combination of solutions such as permit parking, Low Traffic Neighbourhoods / School Streets, replacing car park spaces with bike parking, putting in (proper) cycle lanes and generally creating an environment that’s safe and convenient for cycling), more people will do it as it becomes the more convenient choice. At that point – wearing normal clothes and going to do normal things like shopping – people don’t consider it as exercise, they consider it as “going shopping”.

People are lazy, yes. But it’s more that they’ll always take the convenient (and reliable and cheap) option. If that option happens to be:
look, you can drive but it’ll take 15 minutes and you’ll have to pay £5 to park or you can hire an e-bike and it’ll take 5 minutes and cost £1.50 or you can walk and it’ll still only take 15 minutes and it’ll be free…

Then many people will go with walking or cycling.
It won’t be the answer for *everyone*, nor should it be expected to be, there will always be some journeys by some people that cannot be done that way. But you’ve freed up some roadspace for those that do have to drive.

The major problem to overcome currently is that the option is basically:
we have made it really easy to drive and there’s loads of free parking

and that leaves walking and cycling as the “ooh, you weirdo, also you’re risking your life with all those cars on the road!” (without them ever seeing the irony in that…)

I predict the number of ‘twist and go’ type e-bikes will increase in the coming years, doing nothing to increase the amount of exercise taken/ decrease strain on health services. Lazy will keep being lazy.

But if cycling infrastructure improves for self-propelled cycling, then I’ll take that thanks.

I’ve just received a letter saying we will becoming a school street soon. I wasn’t really aware it was thing as my kids have grown up, so a little out of touch. All good as far as I’m concerned. I’m wondering if the ULEZ extremists are going to attack the cameras for this scheme??? Must be impeding there right to eat a magna carter or whatever shit they spout!

We don’t need a large scale cycle network.

I think that refers to that fact that whole areas of the country will see funding that will allow them to build local networks instead of the piecemeal funding system that we have now that relies on councils applying for it. As opposed to a grand scheme cycling network that covers a large geographical network linking far flung towns and communities.

The issue in the UK is that cycling has always been framed as leisure and/or sport. Not as “a normal thing to do in daily life”.

In the last 50 or so years. Before then cycling to work or to get around was an entirely normal thing for people in every day clothes etc. And I do still see plenty of people doing that, probably 50%. There is a poor-person stigma attached to it though in some respects.

Stick another 20% on fuel tax, people will soon start riding bikes.

Remember how many people stopped driving cars when the average fuel price went up by a third in just a few months at the start of 2022?

We don’t need a large scale cycle network. We need quite side streets and roads linked up for cyclists, and we need short bits of dedicated cycle paths to quickly and easily bypass pinch points and bad junctions.

What we really need is something that’s safe for a child to use. Whatever it is, we’re currently a long way from that.

We also need convenience. If we’re to encourage people to cycle (and reap the supposed financial benefits) it needs to be the most convenient option. I’m a big fan of using sidestreets from the options we have, but it often takes a lot of planning. People should be able to get onto a bike and intuitively get to wherever they need to without much thought.

There also needs to be proper prioritisation at junctions and crossings. I’m lucky to live in a place with some good networks, but there’s no way I’d let my child cross any of the roads on them – some of them I avoid myself.

There is a huge amount of work to be done if we want to enable cycling for the general public and not just ‘cyclists’.

I’ve read that cycling infrastructure is one of the few things that can be installed for less money that it costs to renew a road, the reason being that you just need to make it part of the spec when the road is repaired, and when you do it lasts so much longer than roads (and reduces traffic on them too, so increasing their lifespan) that it ends up cheaper.

What we really need is something that’s safe for a child to use.

I was very happy to see a wee lad bimbling along our newly installed separated cycle lane in Chorlton at the weekend. All by himself, weaving about like he was seemingly barely in control, but probably thinking about dinosaurs or transformers, rather than having to pay attention to the traffic

What we need is not further investment in cycling, we need further investment in Canoes. Why? Because thats the next easiest way for me to get to work other than a nice warm car.

Cycling is not the answer, and there are some very minded views above about cycling or the alternatives to cycling :-)

I predict the number of ‘twist and go’ type e-bikes will increase in the coming years, doing nothing to increase the amount of exercise taken/ decrease strain on health services. Lazy will keep being lazy.

But if cycling infrastructure improves for self-propelled cycling, then I’ll take that thanks.

TBH if it was policed adequately I’d probably be OK with an unlicensed / unregistered 15.5mph “electric moped” class that encompassed E-scooters etc.  The current “you have to pedal it” rule is pointless anyway with the existence of “turbo” modes on most bikes rendering the pedaling effort minimal anyway.

When I say a rise in the price of fuel has an impact on demand, i’m referring to the anecdotal evidence where I live (rural area, poor public transport) and the official government statistics here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/output/articles/behaviouralimpactsofrisingautomotivefuelpricesonconsumerfueldemandukjuly2021toaugust2022/2022-09-02

The “Streets Ahead” podcast this week has an interview with Louise Haigh MP. It’s very good – she really does sound like she gets it and has also made a specific pledge to end all the culture war bollocks.

I think one of the major barriers to cycling is secure bike storage / lack of crime prevention in the centres. Better routes will help, but only if people can leave their bikes securely at the other end.

e-scooters are a more likely answer to getting people out of cars though, and easier to take on trains, store at work etc

e-scooters are a more likely answer to getting people out of cars though

E-scooters don’t replace car journeys, they replace walking.

E-scooters don’t replace car journeys, they replace walking.

They replace both.

Has anyone got faith in this government, so far it’s been a disaster, in such a short period their approval rating has plummeted.

Driving needs to be made the least convenient and most expensive way to travel, at least on local journeys which could otherwise be made by “active” travel. Of course, they’ll be significant pushback on this, both from “consumers” and the motor lobby.

After decades of effective lobbying and promotion of car ownership as aspirational, driving is linked to power and success in public discourse, so anyone not driving has therefore “failed” at life. The tabloids are terrified of cyclists because their owners fear the type of society active travel can help achieve: less status anxious, more socialable, more connected, and therefore more organised and coherent (but of course, far less profitable!).

Indeed, it must be perverse the amount of resources we dedicate to driving massively inflated and heavy vehicles around relatively tiny and highly populated areas. In effect, cars, as a mass urban transportation system, are the most inefficient yet the most resource intense and expensive. But anything or anyone that tries to address that imbalance will face relentless attacks, such as the 20-mph scheme in Wales or ULEZ in London.

Has anyone got faith in this government, so far it’s been a disaster, in such a short period their approval rating has plummeted.

Really?

On the contrary, it just feels refreshing to have some adults in charge. The noise ratio has decreased significantly, the whole culture war nonsense seems to have stopped and there seems a real desire to get stuff done rather than talk about doing stuff with some pithy slogans.

@noeffsgiven – Six weeks in?

They’ve not had time to do anything yet.

We need more safe storage for bikes at stations and workplaces, two tier bike racks ?

@kramer, they’ve managed to release thousands of career criminals to make room for people who shouted at police once or wrote a tweet they didn’t like.

@noeffsgiven, something which the Conservatives would have had to (and were already planning to) do anyway.

in such a short period their approval rating has plummeted.

This seems to have received a great deal of approval :

to make room for people who shouted at police once or wrote a tweet they didn’t like.

 (but of course, far less profitable!)

But if we’re not spending loads of money on cars & running costs (MOT, tax, etc) that give us far more disposable income to spend elsewhere, thus still feeding it to the giants of finance, but via a different route while we potentially get more pleasure from the spending part of the equation?

edit – Please not, I am using the wider ‘we’re’ here, not the specific STW ‘we’re’.

Anyway back to the point of the thread, this seems like a positive move to me.

We don’t need a large scale cycle network. We need quite side streets and roads linked up for cyclists, and we need short bits of dedicated cycle paths to quickly and easily bypass pinch points and bad junctions.

Having been to the Netherlands I disagree.

However well intentioned your solution would just be used as window dressing, spitting cyclists back onto the usual lack of infra.

BUT

It’s a start and if you can at least get residential streets sorted and remove the rat runs then they will be a lot easier to ride on.

Modal filters work well on residential streets.

Having been to the Netherlands I disagree.

I have been to the Netherlands and I disagree still :)

I would point to what’s been done in London as something much more suitable for UK cities. Why bother putting in thousands of miles of cycle way when (or if) there are thousands of miles of side streets which are quiet enough for most people to cycle on easily. In the UK we have been funnelling traffic onto arterial roads and away from side streets for decades, so let’s work with that. For example, City Road/Albany Road in Cardiff are busy, narrow, heavily parked up and have lots of junctions. But to both sides of those roads is a network of streets with very little traffic – although they are parked up. Many of these have been blocked off to cars at the ends specifically to make them as quiet as possible. So as cyclists we can nip onto these and ride in peace almost all the way through the area. They’ve capitalised on this concept in London, meaning that you can ride around large parts of central London with loads of space and very few cars.

Must be impeding there right to eat a magna carter

I think you’ll find that it’s pronounced “Magnum, Carte d’Or”

Driving needs to be made the least convenient and most expensive way to travel

Careful how you phrase that. You should make alternative transport better, not driving worse. Otherwise you’ll face political oblivion. But the end result should be the same.

Making driving worse actually improves driving because the main thing that makes driving bad is other traffic.

Just like red paint on the side of the road isn’t cycling infrastructure, neither is somewhere I can walk my dog.

I’m all for active travel but it needs to be a viable alternative to driving for normal people, not (just) something nice to do on a Sunday morning.

With all the talk of NCN and TPT, I fear we’re sleepwalking onto something we don’t actually want as our main priority.