Kicking dogs doesn’t help

Damn my career in clairvoyance, was very short lived. I guess my concern that ‘somethings not right on the internet’, was not strong enough for me to read each of the previous posts. I commend your desire to argue all these things out, and will feel suitably foolish for making frivilous off hand comments without knowing all the facts (again!). All power to you big man 😉

So if a child runs up and slaps or grabs at my dog when its on a leash, can i slap the parent?

Don – you still miss my point. Of course you have the same rights I do – but your dog does not. A dog has no rights. Only a human has rights. I touch your dog what law would you prosecute under?

Out of control is not clear in law but looking around both the various doggy sites (kennel club and so on) and such things as the access code its pretty clear that a reasonable definition would be that it is either on a lead or comes to heel or drops at command.

I never said I have the right to attack a dog without justification – the justification is if it runs at me and the owner won’t control it and a shout at the dog won’t stop it then I have the right to kick it – as often as need ed to make it run away.

I have no duty to do anything beyond alerting the dog owner to my presence in a reasonable amount of time. As for stopping and getting off the bike – utter piffle.(unless the path is too narrow to pass safely) I have the right to ride my bike without being bothered in anyway by a dog.

If someone hurts (badly) a dog without justification then the law could be involved.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1210683175951&ssbinary=true

I guess that its like anything else – kick it to make it run away is fine, chasing after it with a big stick is not.

Sorry TJ, that was directed at aracer.

Still totally inaccurate though, and not at all refuting the point I made. I think you really need to go back and re-read, as I was asking for an example of TJ going up to a dog which wasn’t disturbing him and attacking it, and you say: “Regarding TJ, he said that he has the right to attack dogs without justification.” None of the posts of his you quote is either an example of what I was requesting, or supports your allegation.

Therefore my point still stands – it’s not the cyclists causing the problem, as dogs on leads wouldn’t be bothered by them at all.

Keep your dog on a lead and there is no problem.

Let your dog off its lead and you have to accept that we cyclists have the right to defend ourselves.

My girlfriend goes horse riding and she’s had trouble with dogs. She threatened to horsewhip a guy once because his dog kept going for a pony being ridden by a 10 year old girl.

The dog does not have to be on a lead – but must be properly trained and under control if it is not. I know dogs that will chase anything – but a shout of d
“down” and they stop instantly. thats fine

ah, you softie europeans.

to put things into a more worldly perspective, last time i was met by an angry dog off its chain – while just outside sa pa – my companion drew his pistol, shot it, and left the corpse neatly by the side of the track for the owner to collect.

in his defense, rabies is always a worry and you can’t discuss matters calmly with a potentially rabid dog.

anyway, dog is good to eat and a popular dish in the highland villages. it tastes like tough beef. the horrid bit comes when the dog is beaten prior to death to ‘tenderize the meat’. it’s a little gross.

Getting back to the OP troll’s point that it doesn’t help. It does. Fortunately bleeding heart liberals and the crazy PC brigade have not infiltrated the dog’s ranks yet, probably because of a language barrier or something. Dogs understand pack mentality and ranking. If aggression is not met with higher aggression the dog sees itself as your boss and more worryingly it learns that aggression is a handy tactic to gain ascendancy. A swift reminder of who is boss lets the dog know in a language it understands perfectly. This may give the dog a fear of cyclists or other humans in future but that is not the fault of the rider or any other human bar the owner who let the dog off without control in the first place.
Personally I shout very loudly at an aggressive dog. This works most times. Violence is the last resort but I have punched a couple. These were dogs that were attacking my dog whilst it was on a lead and minding its own business. On the bike I have never experienced an aggressive dog. I slow down or stop and talk to the dogs. It seems to work but then I am a dog person who has owned/bred dogs all his life. They seem to sense a dogwise person.

i once owned a dog with bombers. used to beat the f*ck out of anyone who kicked him in the face

Sorry Don, but I really fail to see your arguments here. What you’re saying is that you have the same rights as any other person. Correct.

And therefore you have the right not to be intimidated by another persons animal, that is supposed to be under their absolute control in a shared usage area. As do I.

I do not have an irrational fear of dogs, I have a healthy fear of dogs. Riding along a trail I will slow down and leave a respectful space between myself and any animal, make my presence known either verbally or with a bell, to intentionally make sure it remains unspooked, unaggressive and is aware of my presence. That is as much as I need to do to demonstrate reasonable behaviour on my part. What I will not do is ride up to the owner, tap them on their shoulder and say “excuse me, just letting you know that I do have a fear of dogs due to having being bitten by them twice as a child. I would therefore be appreciative if you did not let your dog run at me as I ride along this trail.”

The reason I wouldn’t, and do not need to do this is that it’s implicit in the law that it is not my responsibility to control someone elses dog. It is the owners responsibility. It is also not my responsibility to inform other trail users of my fear of dogs, again, it is the dog owners responsibility to be aware that others may not realise their gentle dog is not necessarily viewed like that by others.

Sure, you don’t take your dog to trail centres and races. But it’s your responsibility to control your dog at all times when in the presence of others. I’m afraid if you can’t do that, you have even fewer legs to stand on that heather mills.

Well put PK ripper.

i once owned a dog with bombers.

que?

used to beat the f*ck out of anyone who kicked him in the face

imaginative little soul, aren’t you?

Whats a troll? Is it a breed of dog?

i own and walk a dog of it’s lead on the south downs. his behaviour is perfect and does exactly as he is told. he has never gone for another person or animal. i do have problems with some dog owners when walking him as he has been attacked by other dogs. I had to strangle a german shepherd on one walk as this thing was really attacking and pulling lumps of fur out, while the dozy owner was just shouting “come on ruby, here girl”. I told her to get it off or I will do it, she was clearly scared of her dog, so I grabbed it by the collar twisted it until it was choking and was no longer biting and threw the **** thing at her. I have a problem with people that let their dogs off the lead and cannot control them. even more so with the owners that are scared of their dogs.
if a dog attacked my kids, i’d have the **** owner just after i’d finished with the dog.

just off out to walk the dog.

don simon- you’re in Spain right? TJ is in Scotchland right?

Ever thought there maybe a difference in law and social norms?

I see where TJ is coming from. In Scotland ‘The access code’ or Land Reform Act or whatever it’s officially called, dogs have no rights. However there owners have the responsibility to stop them bothering other land users and wild animals.

Although the code is based on respect & consideration to others and as far as I know hasn’t been challenged and decison made in court yet.

I wouldn’t have a major problem if someone kicked my dog if he was aggresive towards anyone if he was off the lead or not under control! I would have a problem if someone kicked or hurt my dog if he hadn’t done anything wrong, and that includes “saying hello”! If a dog was aggresive to me i would do what i had to do to protect myself, i’ve had dogs come at me in an aggresive manner and all i did was get off my bike and placed my bike between myself and the dog and that worked that time!
Surely kicked or hurting another animal for no reason is animal cruelty??

Off on a slight tangent but Imo I find horses more of a prob on trails than dogs, certainly where I ride, massively uncontrolable very dangerous they poop everywhere in huge quantitys and you pretty much have to get off to pass one! Give me a dog anyday, atleast a slobbery kiss won’t kill you like a kick from a horse

100!

“Does the happy dance”

‘Violence is the last resort but I have punched a couple’

Who punches a dog?? Lashing out with your foot whislt riding past, I can see. But stopping, dismounting and then perhaps kneeling to batter a terrier, that’s just cold.

lokno hands – I agree with you about horses. However I come across horses every few weeks, dogs every few yards.

Strangely with horse you shouldn’t use a bell ‘cos it spooks them. I usually stop and get well out of the way for horse ‘cos bikes often spook them. Its so rare that I see them that it realy isn’t an issue.

I would have a problem if someone kicked or hurt my dog if he hadn’t done anything wrong, and that includes “saying hello”!

I have no idea what a dogs intentions are as I am not Dr Doolittle.

TJ is absolutely right.

Recall is the major factor, if your dog does not come back if you call it then it should not be off of its lead. Ever.
I’m completely with muggomatic on this one, the owner is far more to blame than the dog.
devs – you’re a bit out, I’m afraid. Violence is not the way to maintain dominance over a dog. It really doesn’t work like that.

Hairyscary, i have no idea what the average person in the street is going to do these days but i don’t go and punch or kick them just incase!

Hairyscary, i have no idea what the average person in the street is going to do these days but i don’t go and punch or kick them just incase!

Want a biscuit?

Only if its a jammy dodger! WTF

pk-ripper, I think you’ll find that I agree with you, not the first time I’ve said that, but I implore you to show me where I said you should ride up to the owner and tap them on the shoulder. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you have read the whole thread…

Your behaviour seems perfectly rational, mutual respect.

lobby_dosser – Member

don simon- you’re in Spain right? TJ is in Scotchland right?

Ever thought there maybe a difference in law and social norms?

Good point, but I was brought up and educated in the UK. Ooops!

kinda666 – Member

Hairyscary, i have no idea what the average person in the street is going to do these days but i don’t go and punch or kick them just incase!
Lol.

Tags are quite interesting!!!

Kinda 666. I don’t speak the language of ‘bark/woof’.

Hairyscary, i don’t speak the language of “Hi mate do you know xxx”, no, ok then i’ll punch you in the face and knock you over a wall with a 6ft drop! My stepson didn’t quite get that one either!

‘Good point, but I was brought up and educated in the UK. Ooops’

well you’re arguing a point against tj who’s technically correct.

I have no doubt that TJ is correct, maybe just needs to leave his bubble once in a while! 🙄

Unfortunately not 😯

I agree that kicking dog’s doesn’t teach them anything but….

Since when has it been the general public’s duty to teach other peoples dogs how to behave?

If a dog owner can’t properly train or control their dog, they deserve to be kicked.

The kicking of the dog would be in self defense and therefore perfectly acceptable in normal society.

However I come across horses every few weeks, dogs every few yards.

no wonder dogs are agressive towards you. you come across my dog and it’ll take me ages to get it out his fur.

“Dorset Knob=Knob”

Class graffiti 🙂

if your dog does not come back if you call it then it should not be off of its lead. Ever.

That’s most dogs IMO; not got one but known many – all friendly dogs and I have no problem with them running about chasing rabbits and generally enjoying being outside. Dogs have been part of our society for a long time and that’s a good thing on the whole. Quite why anyone would want to have an large, aggresive dog is beyond me but of course some people want dogs like that as part of their image or something. I’d be happy to ban more dogs than are currently banned. Most gun dogs are fine though for some reason.

I hit a dog once and went over the bars and broke both wrists and smashed my face in. The dog owner said it was my fault because his dog wasnt on a lead and on a road. I took him to court and i had to take 50% of the blame!!! Dogs should be controlled on or off trails, if my dog got kicked by an mtber then fair enough, it might of been in the way.

devs – you’re a bit out, I’m afraid. Violence is not the way to maintain dominance over a dog. It really doesn’t work like that.

I never said that violence is the way to maintain dominance over a dog. It is a method to teach it not to attack you though. If it hurts it won’t do it again willingly. It’s why things like electric fences work.

Blimey, this thread certainly has legs….

Anyway, I think that we can sum this up as follows:

There are dog owners and responsible dog owners.

Quite clearly some are not the latter and therefore, IMO, should not be allowed to be the former.