Kicking dogs doesn’t help

If you kick a dog, you don’t ‘teach it a lesson’, you encourage it to be scared of cyclists and to show fear and aggression to the next cyclist it meets.

If you don’t know how to read dogs or how to behave around them, seek guidance from your local training or rescue centre; they’d be only too pleased to help you. Attempting to kick a truly aggressive dog won’t do you any favours.

Knowing how to behave around animals is part of trailcraft. If you don’t have it, you should stay off the trails.

Oh, and if you’re so paranoid about dogs that you just can’t bear to have one look in your general direction without wanting to kill it, seek psychiatric help!

so it’s the responsibility of non dog owners to ‘read’ dogs, rather than getting dog owners to control them?

A dog went for my son last year. I kicked it.

No. It’s your responsibility as an adult to know how to behave.

If you own a dog, learn about dog ownership. If you go where cars go, learn how to behave in traffic. If you go where dogs go, learn how to behave around dogs.

You can’t blame everything on everyone else.

“Kicking dogs doesnt help”…but kicking the owner might make you feel better.

In the last couple of months I’ve had three episodes which follow the same pattern ie big dog bares teeth and runs at me, owner calls dog and dog ignores owner, owner calls dog, dog ignores owner, owner calls dog etc etc.

Why do dog owners think they own the f*****g trails? If they cant keep their dog under control then dont take them off the f*****g lead.

The onus is not on me to speak to a frickin “dog bahavoiral specialist”, owners need to understand that if their dog aint trained it could be kicked in the mouth.

I was walking home down my road with a 6 year old boy. A big dog comes tearing at us and starts going for my son.

My choices were, let the dog rip his thoat out or kick him and get my son away from him.

Nice troll though.

Eh? It’s not a troll.

And dont get me started on dog eggs, or woodland spoilt by bags of dog shite lying around.

Yeah, its a troll I think

Dorset knob – wrong I am afraid. Legally and morally its the dog owners responsibility to control their dogs. That means stopping their dogs from bothering other folk. I have an absolute right to go about my daily business without being bothered by someones dog.

There is absolutly no need for the non dog owner to have to do anything – to modify their behaviour in any way. Its the dog owners responsibility. Dogs do not have rights, people do.

If you can’t understand that then you are not a fit person to own a dog. Typical selfish dog owner trying to weasel out of thier responsibilities.

Kicking dogs that attack you is perfectly acceptable morally and legally.

‘if their dog aint trained’

isn’t

I agree, a few weks ago I was out and about when a couple of large dogs (rottweiler and something equally big and aggressive) came charging at me from a field. Usual thing is to dismount, I feel that a cyclist on a bike has the shape and size of another animal, dismount and the dog sees a human and reacts differently. My theory anyway!

the owner came out saying that I shouldn’t worry as they weren’t dangerous. After a minute I thought I would talk to him about it. I started by saying that I wasn’t looking for an argument and then that he knows the dogs aren’t dangerous but I couldn’t possibly know. All that I see are two 60kg dogs trying to protect what they are supposed to protect.

He kind of understood what I was saying. We agreed that there are dog owners who need to understand the point of view of other trail users and other trail users need to understand how to behave with animals.

At the end I mentioned that I also have a “dangerous” dog and we have been disrespected by asshat riders, so it goes both ways…

Peace and love…

Don Simon, thanks! That’s the point I was trying to make I think, made in a much nicer way.

Peace indeed to all living things 🙂

Even the trolls, even though I’m not one.

What would you have done in my situation Dorset_Knob?

Dangerous Dogs Act (DDA) 1991

Section 3 applies to all dogs, making it a criminal offence to allow a dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place. This includes instances where there is fear that an injury might occur.
Owners found guilty under either section of the Act could have their dog destroyed, face the possibility of six months in prison and/or a fine not exceeding level 5 (at present up to £5,000).

ï Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (outside London) and Metropolitan Police Act 1839 (London)

These Acts make it an offence to allow an unmuzzled, ferocious dog to be left at large, or for a person to set on or to urge any dog attack, worry or put in fear any person or animal in the street.

ï Dogs Act 1871

Under this Act, a court may, upon complaint that a dog is dangerous and not kept under proper control, order the owner to keep him under proper control or to be destroyed.

A pet owner has various legal responsibilities. These responsibilities apply to whoever is responsible for or in charge of a pet, not just the owner. The pet owner must ensure that:

*
* The animal does not cause harm or create a nuisance
*
* An owner is liable for damage caused by her/his animal

Thne law is quite clear – if your dog behaves in such a way as to cause any nusience you have committed an offense. the dog does not have to bite – merely to put me in fear – no matter whether you think that fear is reasonable or not.

I’d have shot the dog, and then shot the owner!

Then, like they do with dog poo, I’d have stuffed them both into little see through sandwich bags and hung them from the nearest tree so eveyone that passes for the next 1000 years can see them ruining the scenery.

But then, maybe that’s just me. 😕

I wasn’t there so I don’t know.

Yes, kicking a dog wont work – what you need to do is volley it in the head then set about it and the owner with a pair of bombers.

Kicking doesn’t work – Taser is best fry the f*cker !!

Thanks TandemJeremy, that’s good reading matter for my two collies. I keep telling them and do they listen? No, they just go around saying hello to people and asking them to play. Silly things. I shall shoot them, I think.

Dorset knob – try to understand – your collie that comes up to other people who do not want that dog near them – you are committing an offense. No if but or and, no defense. You dogs could be put down because you are incapable of controlling them.

If you cannot control you dog so it does not bother other people you are unfit to own a dog.

Many dog owners can control their dogs. If you cannot you have badly trained dogs and are unfit to own one.

Dorset Knob I think you are a troll, or did I just say that the wrong way around?

Sadly there appears to be hundreds of very stupid dog owners out there who let their dogs runs off lead in situations where the dog could cause problems for other dogs and people.

This was a strange OP though. Yes, kicking a dog doesn’t ‘help’, but I’d have to say if a dog is attacking you or your kids, then it’s understandable really. I’d find it hard to understand other circumstances in which you’d kick a random dog though??

Unless you can help me out there?

Oh – we have three big dogs btw. 🙂

If a dog rushes up to you in attack mode then theres nowt wrong with kicking it, and yes it does teach it a lesson. Look at dog packs in the wild, they don’t put dogs in the correct command order by gathering chairs round in a circle, and having a talk over a cup of tea and a nice macaroon..
Of course if some soppy dog wanders over wagging it’s tail and clearly wanting to be friends, then kicking it would be insanely stupid and wrong. And owners with over-protective dogs should realise they’re going to have problems sharing trails.

Another example, I rode past a bloke who told me “dont worry, the dog’s fine” and then it bit me on the leg, albeit not very hard, and I was wearing overtrousers so it didnt draw blood. But if it had drawn blood I would have kicked both of them in the head.

A dog owner has an absolute duty to control their dog at all times. This means that they should either be on a lead or come to heel / stand still at command. If you don’t do this with your dogs you are committing an offense in law. If your dog runs up to me even to say hello / to play you are committing an offense and the dog could be put down.

My feet dont know how to behave round dogs. I think it is the dog owners responsibility to keep their dogs from getting harmed round me.

Thne law is quite clear – if your dog behaves in such a way as to cause any nusience you have committed an offense. the dog does not have to bite – merely to put me in fear – no matter whether you think that fear is reasonable or not.

The law is not at all clear, how do you define nusience (sic)? I am aware of how people react to my dog, Staffordsire Bull Terrier, and even when she is on the lead and under control, according to the law I am causing a nuisance.

Can you do me a favour TJ and find the law that states cyclists have to repect other land users and even when I am walking and my dog is on a lead cyclists don’t have a right to pass me within 1m, repect and common sense for all I think.

Not all dog owners are evil, not all cyclists are angels….

Thanks, TandemJeremy, I understand that now.

Dorset Knob if the purpose of the post was to make me more comfortable with kicking untrained aggressive dogs in the head (in defence) then its mission accomplished.

This was a strange OP though.

It’s just that, from the other thread, and now this one, there seems to be a strong body of opinion that it’s pretty much ok to kick a dog if it even starts to look like it might come and annoy you. I just wanted to point out that in the majority of cases, you can avoid nasty situations without becoming violent, and that’s a much better place to be for all concerned.

As for all the cases of real aggression that have been quoted here, I’m not really talking about them. But then again, it’s useful to know what you should do if / when it happens. I have to say that, in 30 years+ of cycling off road, I’ve never encountered an aggressive dog. Must be good luck.

(Also, in all the dog-handling classes I’ve been to, I’ve never been taught that kicking a truly aggressive dog is a wise thing to do.)

Don Simon – of course their can be wrong on all sides. A cyclist has a duty to warn a dog walker than they are there and to give them room to pass – stopping if needed – (narrow path)

A well trained dog I have no problems with. I come up behind a dog walker and ring my bell to let them know I am there – the dog owner makes sure the dog is under control and I go past. No issue. The dog owner allows the dog to run at me -the dog is out of control and the owner is committing an offense.

I suspect that like much in law it all depends on a reasonableness test. In the immortal words ” ‘We must ask ourselves what the man on the Clapham omnibus would think.'” ie if an ordinary person thinks it is reasonable it is.

pepper spray? I seem to remember seeing an ultrasonic dog deterrent available for purchase in maplin?

If your dog runs up to me even to say hello / to play you are committing an offense and the dog could be put down.

Just for the record, in my house:

“say hello” = sit and wag tail excitedly

“ask to play” = play bow at the side of the trail, waiting for you to come and play or my command

All good reasons for a good head-shot, apparently.

Infact, rather than shooting the poor dog and it’s pathetic owner, how bout I just shoot Dorset_Knob 😆

TJ, if an owner let’s their dog run at you, they have no way of knowing that you are scared of dogs and will have a higher level of anxiety than said gentleman on the Clapham Omnibus and can not be held responsible for your fear. If the owner feels their dog may appear aggressive to others then they have a responsiblity. If a dog is running loose near you, do you advise the owner of your fear? Either by action or verbally? Clear, it certainly is not, like most UK law.

To the people above who want to attack dogs and their owners because of their own fear really should address their own fears and learn how to deal with animals as the OP said. As I have pointed out talking to the owner can give you a suprising result.

Dorset_knob, these ‘nasty situations’ should never occur in the first place – its the reponsability of dog ownership to prevent your dog from cause this fear in the first place.

Dorset knob – thats fine then. Its the running up to passers by that is wrong. If it sits or heels at command its fine.

Don Simon – wrong I am afraid – if the dog puts me in fear the owner has committed an offense.

I find keeping a fluffy cat in your backpack is your best defence, then when the dog attacks, release the cat, thus giving you time to escape.

we were riding on the TPT through the mersey valley last summer when a relatively large scottie (off the lead, but accompanied by a couple of ‘gents’) went for my gf. she kept her cool and just slowed down to avoid hitting him, even though he bit her foot a couple of times as she cycled past.
seconds later, he did the same with me. one of the blokes sort of half-heartedly ‘asked’ the dog to behave, and the other one said to me in a very larry grayson-esque voice “ooh, just kick him, it’s all he bloody deserves” (presumably talking about the dog rather than his other half). i replied “if he doesn’t calm down, i’ll f@*king kick you”, which then invited the reply “i’d like to see you try, ****”. so i just laughed to myself and kept going.
half a mile up the trail, we caught up with a bloke on a bike with his two young daughters, and he said to us “i see the dog went for you too; he bit one of my girls minutes before”. sure enough, his daughter had a rather unpleasant looking bite mark on her leg.
so, this dog had already gone for someone prior to us encountering him and yet his owners, despite being able to see there were several cyclists further along the path, felt it was fine to leave him off his leash to roam around and presumably have a go at the next person to ride by.

now, i would never have dreamed of kicking that dog. it wasn’t his fault that his owners never took the responsibility to ensure he was trained to remain calm when faced with other people (cyclists) and then deemed it acceptable to walk him on a bridleway that, every weekend in summer, is absolutely heaving with cyclists, horsey types and so on (many of whom are young children)… it’s not my fault either. it is THEIR FAULT and THEIR REPONSIBILITY. simple as that.
if there are people with dogs on trails then i’ll slow down and take care to not spook the dog or whatever, but ultimately it wasn’t my decision to allow the dog on the trail so it’s not my reponsibility to ensure the dog (and the other trail users) stay unharmed…