Jones: Worth selling rest of your bikes for?

I’d really REALLY like a go on one. I don’t really care about what it looks like, or whether I then get an invite into a really niche club. I like the idea of a well designed well built bike that could possibly ride better at certain things than what I’ve currently ridden.

The cycling world is small enough and hated by enough without having to break into smaller factions that go to war with each other.

I’d love a go on a fat bike, a Jones, one of those adventure type bikes and a cargo bike. I’ve already got a trials bike, a BMX, a fs 29’er, numerous road bikes (including a narrow barred fixed) and so on. Who gives a flyer if people see the need to stereo type or slate someone for their choice of bike? I mean really? A cock is a cock regardless of whether he’s riding a Jones, a Trek or a Boardman. At the end of the day its all bikes and bikes are cool, regardless of how they look.

A bike that causes so much comment/ outrage, for just riding a ‘different’ bike – I want one!

It’s not that it’s different, it’s that people seem to think that it’s important that it’s different.

I struggle with long sentences, but to answer the OP – it depends on why you have lots of different bikes, doesn’t it?

Grim is on to something above… Brand perceptions. I had a 15 year old tell me he would not ride a salsa preferring a “more well know make of bike”.

This isn’t a new phenomena. 20+ years ago some kids were commenting on the relative values of our bikes whilst we were stopped at a cafe. He had a custom logo free Roberts in British racing green, I had a Cannondale series 3.0
The kids decided mine most be the most expensive as it had stickers on it 🙂

I think I could only by a Jones as an ironic purchase though. Much like buying a nice bit of quiche to go with my copy of the Guardian. Nothing inherently wrong with Quiche, but it ain’t going to bring world peace, and plenty of other nice foodstuffs are also available.

Grim is on to something above… Brand perceptions. I had a 15 year old tell me he would not ride a salsa preferring a “more well know make of bike”.

That may be a generation thing.
I’m late 30s and I buy products not brands, I don’t have much interest in social media beyond a couple of bike forums and flickr. According to an interesting chap who works in this area, under 25-30 yr olds are said to live by experiences and brands that they can share, associate with and link themselves to online (as grums link talks about). Product shapes brands, but I think brand comes first to most and is the ‘first impression’ and communication tool. I don’t think Jeff Jones is a great marketeer.. more of the ‘keep it genuine and do what you believe in’ trickle effect – product shapes the brand 100% in this case. If the product was sh1t he’d have gone out of business a while ago.

What jeff needs is to get a blog like the surly chaps…that would send some stw regular haterz into such a shock induced coma, that the rest of us could just…you know…talk about bikes on a bike forum without it turning into some sort of boring wankathon about who likes what. It’s bikes…bikes are good and riding and bikes should make YOU happy. Why waste energy and time being negative about stuff you have no interest in? It just too mary whitwhouse, ” I watched a programme I knew I wouldn’t like and complained about it” the
Singletrack is dry spring is comming…..lets all just have fun? Xx

I don’t think Jeff Jones is a great marketeer

He’s a great marketeer, though it could be by accident and without trying.

Jameso… I could not agree more.

Mattjg.. Yeah, marketing degree and around 15 years in brand management, advertising, and marketing.

Steve Worland once wrote “His steel and titanium SpaceFrames will never appeal to the masses, but one of the combinations tested here should be tried by every enthusiastic mountain biker. Despite, or because of, its lack of air/coil sprung suspension, it makes you realise why skin-of-the-teeth trail riding is so much fun. And the remarkable thing is that we were thrashing through all of our favourite trails at almost exactly the same speed as we do on 5in-travel full-sussers.”

Yeah you’re right, I know what you mean. I suppose I mean ‘marketeer’ as in trying to market stuff, rather than brand-building by credibility or reputation alone.

By some strange fate, I was out on the trail this morning and came across a fella on a Jones (Ti to boot)… we got chatting and he suggested I have a little pootle to see how it felt~ I must say, despite all my previous jest (see, I’m a nice man really and have no intention of hate) I was pleasantly surprised and could see there is some unique qualities to the ride which set it apart from anything I’ve ever ridden.

Whilst I had a pop on his bike, I returned the favor and he had a trundle on mine (NS surge with an Alfine for that non-Amish Niche feel).

Our final conclusions (from an admittedly short trial):

Despite the pleasant and unique feel of the Jones, I couldn’t see that it offered any major benefit over my own steed, though that may have been due to cockpit setup and my limited experience of 29ers.

On the other hand, Mr Jones as we shall call him sang the praises of my bike and said he hadn’t had so much fun in ages. He even mentioned he would consider selling his Jones to buy a similar bike to mine, as this would leave him with sufficient funds to try a full suss as well!!

I like that Worland quote ‘skin of teeth trail riding’, well put.

I think we have now established trying to out-post CTBM on marketing theory isn’t going to work!

I couldn’t see that it offered any major benefit over my own steed

Lack of maintenance cost and faffage? Slow depreciation? (genuine question).

People really do care about brands, but with Jones it’s all about the ride, almost no one buys a Jones to show off… It’s a crap way of showing off or being different… no one knows what it is

I don’t agree – it’s not the brand it’s the look. Jones are the type of bikes that get you attention (whether in a good or bad way). It’s the same with people riding fat bikes on normal trails, sure they might be having fun but just don’t try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike. If fat bikes or Jones’ became common a lot of the current riders move onto something else to stand out from the crowd

Blimey some people seem to think they can make some pretty wild assumptions about what goes through someones mind when they buy a bike.

How about thinking they tried a bike,liked it and handed over some cash for it?

It’s a wild theory I know but there might just be some truth in it.

I’m off to clean my chain ready for tonights ride. It’ll be more interesting than some of the stuff posted by the usual suspects here.

but just don’t try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike

told.

Decent fs xc bikes? Been there done that….jones is just more fun and equally quick with a skilled rider, but if you need a skill compensator then please be my guest, just don’t tell me that 20 odd years of riding and racing make my personal experience any less valid than your unjustified opionion. 😉

If fat bikes or Jones’ became common a lot of the current riders move onto something else to stand out from the crowd new because they like trying new things.

It’s not really that complicated.
I’ve had a jones for around 5 years.
Same amount of time i’ve had a nomad.
Any bike i like stays.
Any bike that i don’t goes.

Nothing to do with anything else.
You’re trying to read far to much into things.

I ride my bikes because i like the way they feel.
The last thing I think about when handing some cash over is what will someone i don’t know think of it.

BTW
My chain’s nice a clean ready for a ride out tonight. 🙂

wow and i thought fat bikes could cause a storm in a tea cup personally i quite like the look of them and living in the south east a 29er makes sense and as my area is mainly clay with big sections of sandy soil the fat front option also makes sense never ridden one let alone seen one in the flesh but would like a go if the chance came up after all bikes are bikes arn’t they 🙂

The Simpler you make things, the richer the experiance becomes.

Just put my Big Fat Larry on mine, I just wasn’t getting enough attention running the Knard up front 😉

It’s the same with people riding fat bikes on normal trails, sure they might be having fun but just don’t try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike

Seeing someone on a half fat bike on the trails must drive you nuts then, what’s wrong with having fun, and why does it have to be better than a fully skill compensator ???

This thread needs some more GNARR

He’s clearly having a terrible time on his rigid bike.

Decent fs xc bikes? Been there done that

It’s funny isn’t it how riding a simple rigid (SS even) bike is regarded as odd, when really it’s just a set of tubes joined together.

Yet putting front bouncy forks with half a dozen tuning adjustments and controls on the bars, rear shocks, various pivots, bearings and swinging bits, up to 30 gears and dealing with shifters for both ends, long chains (that break), chainsuck, dangly bits that get broken in the undergrowth, bendy gear hangers so that doesn’t mash your frame, is all regarded as ‘normal’.

The Jones truss fork has, presumably, 0 moving parts.

The Rebas I bought have (guesses) 50 or more parts? The tuning was positive air, negative air, rebound, and damping. 4 variables, in infinite combinations, to get it ‘right’. It did my head in if I’m honest.

Does not compute, does it?

(suspect I am talking myself into buying a Jones, or the poor man’s alternative, a Krampus).

I don’t think Jeff does any marketing as such – I did see a tiny advert in a magazine 5 years ago. Other than a blog, I think jeff’s only marketing is to a have a big beard!! Judging by the adverse beardy comments, that’s not working too well 😉

Oh and stop banging on about how expensive they are – £815 will get you a steel frame and fork, it has exactly the same geometry as a Ti Spaceframe.

I don’t think a Krampus will be that much cheaper than a steel Diamond, also they’re much harder to get hold of.

Oh and stop banging on about how expensive they are – £815 will get you a steel frame and fork, that has exactly the same geometry as a Ti Spaceframe.

Less than a (forkless) Niner Sir 9 or a (forkless) Ritchey P29er – both of which I have nearly bought in the past.

I don’t think Jeff does any marketing as such

the best marketing is always invisible 😉

just don’t try and make a case that it performs better than a decent XC FS bike.

We’d need to define ‘performs better’ before anyone can consider that point.

Personally I’d define performance as the interaction between rider and bike, ergonomics; the enjoyment of riding it which is highly subjective; and the bike’s ability to do what the rider wants it to, again pretty subjective.
I reckon it’s a waste of time unless it’s in a std mag test way which is still no more than a guide based on an informed opinion. Which is more than some of contributors to this thread have 🙂

It’s not the look people are buying, you would have to be stupid to spend that sort of money on a look… And many jones owners have the regular diamond frame with the uncrowned fork… Looks like a normal bike.

If you wanna stand out, save some money, simply tattoo your face and cut the arse out of your trousers.

People generally don’t move on to another bike to stand out from the crowd. They adopt new designs, new concepts and new tweaks on old concepts. Have an open mind any enjoy experiencing alternative designs.

What blows me away is the assertion the people buy these to stand out, be different or show off. The Jones owners I know also don’t look down on people with normal bikes. We all had a rockhopper (or similar) once.

For something different to be adopted:
It’s got to be available
Affordable
And have a perceived advantage over there current set up.

So why do Jones stir things up… Some people can’t afford a jones, and don’t get the design concept so don’t get the perceived advantage, or in their world it has no advantage (DH racing for example) A jones also challenges excepted bike design theory with no springs and levers, what was an odd wheel size, crazy bars etc.. so challenges someone’s previous buying decisions, and in extreme cases it can be perceived as almost inferring that you and your current bike is wrong.

The relaxed and considered reality is that people buy them because they have researched it, probably tested it, evaluated it against their own unique set of needs (based on ride style, terrain, bank account etc) and gone for it…

People ride these bikes because they work very well, if its design matches your criteria.

the poor man’s alternative, a Krampus

Quite different bikes though, a Krampus is more like a fat-tyred Fortitude based on ride position, angles etc. A ‘poor’ man’s Jones is the steel / std fork and I reckon it’d be at least 90% as much fun as the Ti bike, based on riding the steel-truss and the ti. Sorry, mag-style ratings slipping in there..

it’s cool James, I’ve ridden neither a Krampus or a Jones, I was just being a bit flippant really. (And that’s useful POV actually).

re looks I saw a truss-forked Jones on someone’s roof in town the other day, I thought it didn’t look as odd in the flesh as it does on the screen.

I still don’t get it.

What I do get is people out there like the back-to-basics (Amish – I’m not letting that one go!) feel of riding a track on a bike with no suspension. I started riding when all bikes had no suspension and I enjoyed it as much then as I do today on the variety of bikes I own.

But why not just hark back to the days of old and get a rigid framed, normal wheeled, bike? An Inbred with a rigid fork maybe?

Why has old fashioned needed to be re-invented for the modern day? And if you want to get more in touch with the trail why are you using disk brakes – surely that must be seen as some kind of performance advantage that takes away from the purity of riding?

I’m not being grumpy here (well I’m not trying to be) – I just honestly do not get it. My old Marin Bolinas ridge was £230 complete and meets all the simple purist needs that are being talked about.

Would I want to try one – hell yes. I’ve ridden some very odd bikes over the years.

Would I want to own one – hell no. They are ugly (subjective, I appreciate) and I can’t see why they represent any sort of giggle value at the price they are. If they were a couple of hundred quid I’d probably buy one for giggle rides a couple of times a year.

Yadda yadda yadda,I’m still sticking with my wheelbarrow comment,looks better too……………….

challenges someone’s previous buying decisions, and in extreme cases it can be perceived as almost inferring that you and your current bike is wrong.

Spot on – I know I wondered if I did the right thing buying my Jones ti when 2 friends got Ibis Mojo HDs with some very nice kit for not a lot more shortly after. No regrets though. And they still let me ride with them )

drswank… It’s nothing like your old rigid bike. The angles are unique, giving it unique handling. This is a summary from dirt rag.

“With short chainstays and a shorter trail number, thanks to a slacker headtube angle and more fork offset, his bikes are markedly more playful than your average 29er hardtail—just look at that tight wheelbase on this test bike. Think of it as a large-wheeled BMX bike that’s comfortable for long, long days in the saddle.”
Justin Steiner,
Dirt Rag Magazine

Would I want to try one – hell yes

Would I want to own one – hell no.

This was my line of thinking until i tried one.

If someone liked the way a full susser rides but it’s ugly and expensive would people be so upset about it?
No i don’t think they would.

So why the problem with someone that likes rigid bikes buying something they like.

Seems kind of strange to me.

As for being the same as any old rigid bike, it’s not the same at all.
the first thing that struck me was how can it be so stable but still remain quick steering.
I’m told it’s all to do with the head angle and larger offset of the fork.

i’m sure James could explain in a lot more detail seen as i believe that’s the kind of field he works in.

“As I roll down the chute in the trail of death
I look at my rigid bike and see tubes like a mess
but that’s just perfect for an Amish like me
you know I shun fancy things like gears and electricity…

..been spending most my life
riding in an Amish paradise..”

DrRSWank you reminded me of the Al Yankovich classic..

The Marin point.. starting from scratch and fine tuning a rigid bike’s ergonomics to the nth degree is what Jeff’s done, if bikes hadn’t developed suspension that’s probably where they’d have ended up. I’ve wondered if suspension came about originally to make up for small wheels with sub-2″ tyres on 17mm rims and a crap riding position with way too much weight on the front.. Sus is a natural progression of course, just one of those thoughts.

jameso – Member
challenges someone’s previous buying decisions, and in extreme cases it can be perceived as almost inferring that you and your current bike is wrong.

Spot on – I know I wondered if I did the right thing buying my Jones ti when 2 friends got Ibis Mojo HDs with some very nice kit for not a lot more shortly after. No regrets though. And they still let me ride with them )

Actually this is a very important components of business that is often over looked. Some companies will tell you how great a bike is, and six months later tell you that everything has improved and you need a new bike…” What, eh, but you just told me this is the best bike!!”

What a smart business will do is reinforce the original buying decision, help keep the customer in love with his bike. This is how you build grass roots word of mouth sincere recommendations.

Alternatively you can tweak everything every year, keep the shareholders happy by selling more and more bikes, upset existing customers by making them less than happy with their bike – wanting more… and fuel all of this with the most expensive and ineffective form of communication know to man (advertising).

Some bike brands are a full on business… Some are a beardy bloke in a log cabin who rides really effin well.

CTBM – true.. Ideally you do what classics like the early Konas, the 5 and the Soul do, subtly evolve when it’s justifiable without undermining the previous design. You can only do that if you get it pretty much right first time.

SSS, I could but not with the clarity that Jeff explains it and I still think the overall layout is inspired. There’s an image on his site that’s very telling of how he approached the design. Took him a number of custom builds and test bikes to arrive at that design but it was all based on a theory that to me makes me wonder (like all good ideas) why no-one else came up with it earlier – the proliferation of suspension and ‘the way things are’ I guess.

I’ve just come back from a ride,in a new place,with a good mate,on my new (to me) JJ space frame SS with fat front,that I’ve wanted for 6 or 7 years,I had to borrow the money to buy it.
I’m happy as a pig in poo.
don’t give a toss what any one else thinks about me or my bike,all I know is that today was what it’s all about,for me. 🙂

sod you lot yacking on, I’m off out riding on my ultra-niche Selma (only 50 ever imported I’m told), several miles of hard fast trails with my ride buddies then a few pints by a glowing fire I hope.

Thumbs up for keef and mattjg ..

I’m jonesing for one of these