The Panama Papers.

Interesting to see London property pop up in this case now as well… it’s so obvious to anyone who lives in London who saw the prices shoot up very very fast in late 2013 that something crooked was going on – prices were static from 2009-mid 2013 and then suddenly around September time they went through the roof – which clearly wasn’t some ‘supply and demand’ dynamic because demand doesn’t increase 20% in 3 months without some kind of trigger.

I reckon in time we’ll find out a massive tonne of crooked cash hit the market at that time as a load of these offshore companies bought into Prime London. It’s not just the scale of the ‘increase in demand’ but the speed of it which suggests something dodgy was going on.

It’s really not great that we’ve allowed our housing market to be corrupted like this…

Stealing QE plus need to get money nicely washed in bricks and mortar => asset bubble

RT’s reporting : “Nothing to see here, move along.”

Stealing QE plus need to get money nicely washed in bricks and mortar => asset bubble

It’s kept the bubble going, yes, but there must have been some trigger in mid-2013 to start the whole panic off. In SE26 where I was renting, the owners couldn’t sell in 2011 as the market was dead. In early and mid-2013 the highest prices 2-bed flats were selling for was £250k and by September the asking (and selling) price was suddenly £300k… I swear some wall of cash must have triggered it somewhere, it was a shockingly quick increase. Maybe it was Help To Buy, but finding out all these offshore co’s are wrapped up in London property isn’t really a shock when you look back at what’s happened to London

So apparently some big US names to be revealed that could rock the election…

Could this see Sanders into the white house, he polls well ahead of Drumpf if that were to happen and that Clown and Clinton are bound to be up in it….

Sanders after all predicted this 5 years ago

There has to be a point at which avoidance becomes objectionable – or is it simply the point just above the limit that “I” can afford?

It’s about the point at which the self-delusion that under “advice” one can create 3 trusts hidden in 4 off-shore companies in the Virgin Islands and this somehow magically “transmutes” your money into something else that doesn’t involve paying any of that nasty tax business whilst still living in a state that has roads, and hospitals and so on, and taking advantage of all that it offers.

It’s parasitic. Is what it is.

I see that Mr Cameron has join the same tax credibility club as Mrs Hodge. Wonder how many other politicians will be sweating at moment.

quite a lot

Unlikely to be any big us names because of the way their tax system works.

London’s expensive property doesn’t really have a lot to do with high end corruption. Putin is not buying two bed flats in Morden.

I don’t know. Does it involve signing an Internet petition?

No, it involves putting your hand in your pocket and doing more than whining on the internet. I didn’t think you’d be interested.

No, it involves putting your hand in your pocket

Will they accept a cheque from my Jersey bank account?

@mefty if you had a Jersey bank account hmrc would be aware of it due to info sharing brought in by the Tories

@igm, Panama not for me professionally or personally

Icelandic PM explicitly lied about having any offshore assets. Cameron has always been open about his family trust and gave further details today.

When making Swiss account holders info known to hmrc there where all sorts of figures thrown about for how much tax would come as a result, numbers up to a billion I recall. In practice virtually nothing is due, vast majority kf funds where totally legit and fully taxed already.

By avoiding tax to the degree they are, the rich are undermining the whole principle of taxation to fund society

@binners nonthey really are not avoiding taxes to the degree you thiink they are. The biggest culrpits are businesses

London’s expensive property doesn’t really have a lot to do with high end corruption. Putin is not buying two bed flats in Morden.

I didn’t say that – although neither of us have any idea who owns the rest of the property in our street, we just assume it’s legitimate… so we’d be naive to believe that only Prime London is getting bought up by the corrupt money…

Some basics maths based on this quote from The Guardian:

More than £170bn of UK property is now held overseas. Much of that is in London, where unprecedented house price inflation has transformed homes into highly profitable investments for asset speculators. Nearly one in 10 of the 31,000 tax haven companies that own British property are linked to Mossack Fonseca.

£170bn in a City where the median salary is £35k, which allows a typical couple buying at 5 times salary to raise £350k to buy somewhere, so £170bn is the equivalent of just under half a million additional couples or nearly 1 million extra people in a city of 8.5m…

… and you don’t think a wall of money like that has corrupted the market? Bearing in mind there’s plenty of legit money in London property as well?

Someone rather better placed than me has already flagged this last year, which really should be uncomfortable reading for those of us who want UK to be a free and uncorrupt country and given the price rises now rippling out across the SE and further and the negative impact that’s having on the wider economy (younger generation esp)

National Crime Agency…

@deadly – seperate post to apologise for describing Ireland as primitive. A very poor choice of words.

What particuarly gets me going about Ireland (Luxembourg is worse btw) is the fact that ultra low corporation tax wasn’t enough. They allowed with full knowledge and government blessing all sorts of other nonsense. Add this to when they needed a bailoit they outright refused to budge on policies which where costing the whole of Europe billions and billions in lost tax.

I do understand what a sensitive issue tax is. IMO its going to get a whole lot more combustable in the next few years with te EU slipping into another recession and the fallout from a Greek default.

@brooes Labour left a massive loophole when they put up stamp duty and neglected to close the offshore loophole. As I posted ages ago its been common for Brits to buy holiday property in Portugal via a holding company for decades, openly advertised via the estate agents. You create these anomolies when stamp duty for property is 5-10% and for buying/selling shares is 0.5% or in fact 0% in most of Europe. If you don’t need a mortgage you’d be a bit nuts to pay 10% stamp duty when there was no need. Tories closed the loophole for new purchases but there is nothing they can do about deals already done.

As for 1 in 10 being done via Panama thats a small minority isn’t it, ie such a dodge/strategy isn’t common via Panama

@deadly I just did a site search, I cannot find the post you are referring to. Nothing comes up from me.

site:singletrackworld.com primitive jambalaya

if you had a Jersey bank account hmrc would be aware of it due to info sharing brought in by the Tories

One person I don’t need tax advice from is you, it was a joke.

What particuarly gets me going about Ireland (Luxembourg is worse btw) is the fact that ultra low corporation tax wasn’t enough. They allowed with full knowledge and government blessing all sorts of other nonsense. Add this to when they needed a bailoit they outright refused to budge on policies which where costing the whole of Europe billions and billions in lost tax.

They didn’t change the tax law they inherited on independence from the UK to suit the US, it is hardly egregious and they gave certainty of the Irish tax consequences, which is pretty common in many jurisdictions. These structures deprive the US of tax not Europeans.

That wasn’t tax advice, it was correcting an impression you where giving and pointing out the Tories have addressed idenity disclosure

Mefty Apple should be paying a lot of tax in the uk as it makes a lot of profit here, the uk is a very successful market for it. Ditto Facebook, Google etc That’s how tax law should work. Bernie Saunders singled out Apple today for not paying the correct amount of tax.

£170bn in a City where the median salary is £35k, which allows a typical couple buying at 5 times salary to raise £350k to buy somewhere, so £170bn is the equivalent of just under half a million additional couples or nearly 1 million extra people in a city of 8.5m…

Only part of that £170bn is in London. Only part of that part is in residential property. Only part of that part of that part is like having extra people in London because the huge majority will be rented out (which deflates sale prices).

Your assumptions need work.

http://europe.newsweek.com/panama-papers-who-are-real-victims-tax-avoidance-and-evasion-444144

Tax avoidance and evasion is unethical and is part of a big picture of continuing to hurt others…all a result of selfish greed.

Tax avoidance and evasion is unethical and is part of a big picture of continuing to hurt others…all a result of selfish greed.

I always thought the cycle to work scheme was an evil plot to hurt others.

I hope you all feel ashamed of yourselves.

Shall we let Dave take us back to a more innocent time?

😆

Some wisdom from your link binners

Labour leader Ed Miliband said: “I’m not in favour of tax avoidance obviously, but I don’t think it is for politicians to lecture people about morality. “I think what the politicians need to do is – if the wrong thing is happening – change the law to prevent that tax avoidance happening.”

John 8:7 indeed

Stones anyone?

Among the squirming yesterday, CMD made the astonishing comment that he owns no shares. Really? Dividend income is one of the few areas where you can legitimately earn a return these days. And this guy is running the country???? Very odd….he will be depriving his kids of the quality of education that he enjoyed next.

didn’t CMD say he’s publicize his tax return some years ago?

I don’t think he did, did he?

if the wrong thing is happening – change the law to prevent that tax avoidance happening.”

long term, admirable goal. Short term, people need to feel the law breathing down their necks, chuck some high profile avoiders and evaders in the nick for a long time, and make the others feel that the risks “if” you get found using one of these schemes as not worth it.

Of course he doesn’t own any shares, Uncle Huberts ex-wife’s hamster has a special purpose vehicle in Luxembourg that administers a trust fund in the Turks and Cacos that owns all Dave’s shares.

But its alright cos he bought his own bike (with money he stole out of an orphanages collection box).

Very odd….he will be depriving his kids of the quality of education that he enjoyed next.

He clearly shares your concerns THM

As I read that, and I heard the sound of satire breathing its last breath, as it lay slowly bleeding to death in a gutter

…people need to feel the law breathing down their necks, chuck some high profile avoiders…

Are people being deliberately thick here?

Avoiding tax is legal, encouraged by the state and everyone does it.

Avoiding tax is legal, encouraged by the state and everyone does it.

I think you’re deliberately conflating different things. No-one could reasonably believe that using an instrument for its intended purpose (say a workplace pension) is the same as exploiting a legal loophole.

Avoiding tax is legal, encouraged by the state and everyone does it.

Er, it’s legal becuse the people with power to change the law are the one’s benefiting from it the most.

In other countries it’s legal to rape your wife, does that make it right?

Laws and ethics and right from wrong are very grey areas..

It’s unethical…so no, people are not being thick. I suggest you are being naive if you think simply because it’s legal makes it right..

I think you’re deliberately conflating different things. No-one could reasonably believe that using an instrument for its intended purpose (say a workplace pension) is the same as exploiting a legal loophole.

Stick to the term evasion then. Avoidance is explicitly legal.

No he’s right Ransos, I pay KPMG to offshore my childcare vouchers, they’re currently being used as seed funding to set up a shell company to launder drugs money and I’ll receive a spiffing return.

Avoiding tax is legal, encouraged by the state and everyone does it.

anyone who thinks that an ISA is “more or less” the same thing as an off-shore trust managed by a hidden company benefiting a local bishop in the Indian Ocean is being obtuse.

it’s fraud in all but name, and every-one who takes “advice” to do it knows it is.

Stabiliser – I’m afraid you’re behind the curve old chap. Selling arms to ISIS is providing me with a much higher return than the drug dealers are managing.

Ironically those upstanding citizens like Daves dads will have been using the services of the same lawyers and bankers who were more than happy to launder money for the cartels. I don’t know where that leaves the war on drugs?

binns – another quality source, thank you. He’s right there though isn’t he?

CH4 news reported his promise re tax returns last night – another silly knee jerk comment from a politician. Perhaps we can make HRMC open access to all – and charge a fiver a look to earn some extra dosh for the Treasury.

don’t worry folks – apparently we can re-colonise these havens and teach them how to behave properly. Some nice chap said so on the news last night. 😉

Avoidance is explicitly legal.

No, that’s not correct. HMRC can and do challenge tax avoidance schemes. It’s odd that they’ve never wanted to investigate my childcare vouchers…

That wasn’t tax advice, it was correcting an impression you where giving and pointing out the Tories have addressed idenity disclosure

As with most of your so-called corrections you were wrong, the latest Tax Information Exchange Agreement came into force in 2009 when I think you will find Gordon Brown was PM. (EDIT: It is fair to say that reporting obligations have been beefed up considerably under the present government.)

Mefty Apple should be paying a lot of tax in the uk as it makes a lot of profit here, the uk is a very successful market for it. Ditto Facebook, Google etc That’s how tax law should work. Bernie Saunders singled out Apple today for not paying the correct amount of tax.

It makes a lot of sales here, but should its profit be entirely attributed to its sale effort? Whilst there are some who think there is nothing special about their software, many who buy their products seem to think there is, so an awful lot of their profit should be attributed to the countries that create it – and that is not the UK; likewise the hardware development.

Almost all of these US multinationals that are hoarding cash offshore do so as a result of cost sharing agreements of activities that generate valuable intellectual property. However, the actual activity is predominately taking place in the US so that is the country that is being deprived – so Bernie is right there.

another silly knee jerk comment from a politician. Perhaps we can make HRMC open access to all

you seem miss the point.

CMD has said in the past that he’s happy to make public his tax affairs and then did not, why is that?

CMD has said in the past that he finds tax avoidance “morally wrong” and we discover that his dad was knee deep in these schemes, and that CMD doesn’t or will not benefit…hmmm, I think most people are thinking “yeah, right”

if he said so, then he should do it true – just think its a silly idea since where does it stop? Like most sound bite politics (strategic industry) sound great but rarely hold up to scrutiny.

I think yea right too – like the stuff about not owning shares. His trousers are well and truly at half mast

so the stone throwers who don’t engage in any form of avoidance (and boycott companies who do) can legitimately form an orderly queue and take aim