Jeremy Vine – Helmets on Bikes in Australia – On Now

Here we go!

Wonder if TJ’s going to phone in!
I try & avoid Jeremy Vine but I’m listening to this

I can’t believe helmets aren’t already compulsory. All very well saying “it’s my life/health” – in a country with an NHS surely it’s everyone’s problem if people are needlessly injured?

Was he trolling with that mobile phone comment ?!

weak time filler

I can’t believe helmets aren’t already compulsory

that didn’t take long

I can’t believe helmets aren’t already compulsory. All very well saying “it’s my life/health” – in a country with an NHS surely it’s everyone’s problem if people are needlessly injured?

I can’t believe we allow people to get out of bed each day given the potential dangers that await us. Drinking should be banned, smoking likewise. All food consumption should be monitored and people should be forced to take 45 minutes of exercise each day but no more.

True. The number of serious injuries sustained in motor vehicles could be significantly reduced with this minor change to legislation.

I haven’t watched the programme but I’m in Melbourne at the moment and couldn’t believe it was compulsory to wear a helmet. However, one good thing is the fact that you have to be able to purchase a helmet for $5 or less within 50 metres of a city bike

i heard that, whats a $5 lid like to wear?
has any research been done on the rotational injuries theory? (joking)

alimarsh – Member
I can’t believe helmets aren’t already compulsory….

let’s assume – very generously – that you’re not trolling us/me.

As demonstrated by our friends in Oz, the biggest impact of making helmets mandatory is a significant reduction in the numbers of people cycling.

as exercise is good for you, the effect on public health is negative.

and why pick on cyclists? – you’d save waaaaay more lives if you made it compulsory to wear a helmet while in a car, or walking, or out boozing, or etc. etc.

Bearing in mind – its not law here; and there are as many valid reasons not to wear a helmet as there are to wear one …

Its always those that wear helmets – that feel the need to force their opinion on cyclists that do not wear them.

I like the idea of the proposed flag on a 2mtr length of pole hanging off the back of the bike.

Pretty brilliant idea that.

I wish I was Australian.

I can’t believe helmets aren’t already compulsory. All very well saying “it’s my life/health” – in a country with an NHS surely it’s everyone’s problem if people are needlessly injured?

I trust that you are urging the banning of smoking and alcohol too.

Just listened to the article, nothing particularly new from any angle, I suppose it was good to see a couple of myths robustly rebutted though, being that compulsory helmets will actually harm the health of society at large by two proven mechanisms..

Less people cycling leading to more health issues around unfitness, and helmets arguably aren’t very effective at preventing serious head injuries due to thier fragility,certainly zero effecivity, or possibly aggravating many other serious injuries such as broken necks etc.

And that wearing a helmet does indeed lead you to take risks you wouldn’t be inclined to without, and that people around you, specifically motor vehicles will drive closer as they perceive the same.

I listened to it at lunch time and didn’t hear the same as Mattyfaz. Yes, heard the same arguement given by those opposed to wearing helmets but who’s son collided with van at low speed gave the more compelling arguement for wearing an helmet. The majority of those that called in also gave the better reasoning.
I’m sure cycling numbers would decrease short term if compulsory helmet wearing came in but would increase again in the long term.
As for the toss about helmet riders taking more risks I don’t buy as a motorcyclist I don’t want any further risk even wearing protective clothing with helmet. Riding my bike with a helmet doesn’t make me want to take any more risk than doing the same journey without one. I do know that I binned a helmet with fist side dent in which I was glad was in that and not in my skull.

why wouldnt you wear an helmet? (serious question)

btw i didnt for years until i woke up in a ditch not having a clue how i got there or where i was.

I wouldn’t necessarily wear a helmet if I wanted to go for a pootle on a hot day and I was just in my jeans. I’m happy wearing one 99.9999999999999999% of the time because I choose to, not because I’ve been forced. If cyclists are forced to wear helmets then evidence shows car drivers and pedestrians are at just as much, if not more risk of suffering a massive head injury. Putting the onus onto cyclists wearing helmets detracts from the argument that if you really cared about cyclists welfare you get drivers to look where they’re going more closely.

why wouldnt you wear an helmet?

Because I grew up riding without one. 50 years of doing so is a hard habit to break (sounds like a cue for a song)

Cycling is more popular in the Netherlands, and you don’t tend to see them wearing helmets.

People do lots of things that put them at risk. I don’t want to make them stop, and I don’t expect other to tell me what risks I can or cannot take.

Hmm Yeh but unless we can properly analyse the accident it’s impossible to say whether it made any difference, if the kid was doing 10mph and the van 30mph and he hit it head on.. You’re gonna be in serious trouble helmet or not, and without more info on that particular accident it’s impossible to analyse whether a helmet would have helped, made no difference, or even killed him outright.

Cycle helmets simply are not designed to protect against such hard impacts.

Personally I’m a recreational cyclist I ride for utility, fitness, nice scenery and finding new places. I have no interest in strava koms or shredding the knarr in a red bull championship.

I’ve never hit my head during an off, as I’m generally going slow enough to adjust my fall to not land on my head.

My elbows, shoulders and knees have taken a few hits over time though.. So full body armour should probably be compulsory too.

The argument for drivers and pedestrians to be forced to wear helmets is far more compelling if you look at the facts.. Both suffer far more frequent and serious head injuries than cyclists.

I’m not remotely aware of Australia’s traffic legislation, but if there has been a reduction in bike journeys as a result of making helmets compulsory, then surely they need to balance that out with legislation to discourage intra-city private car use?

And the Aussie journo on Jeremy vine today seemed to have a contempt for cyclists.

One of the comments was that driver’s in Sydney ‘drive like bloody idiots’
Which is similar to the UK, I say this as a driver and a bike rider.

There’s a real sense of entitlement amongst many driver’s, it’s almost as if subconsciously many feel they have to make progress at all cost, whether that be cutting other drivers up when filtering, not letting people out, or forcing a bike to the kerb only to have to stop for a red light they didn’t notice 50 yards down the road. etc. There’s a deep seated social issue here, and enforcing helmets won’t make any difference, rather it’ll make it worse.

Cycling is more popular in the Netherlands, and you don’t tend to see them wearing helmets.

Find me a country with comparable cycling infrastructure and you can use that one. The Netherlands is probably the exception not the rule.
It’s strange how the wear helmet don’t ride mentality works, mine sits with the bike (in Oz where it’s compulsory)
Was the show coming from the draconian nsw (Sydney) laws for carrying id and massive increase in fines for not having a bell fitted?

As an assessment here from my perspective lack of cycling is also down to the increased traffic etc. Somebody I know who has looked at this in a lot more detail than stw (for work) said that the helmet laws had an immediate hit then a recovery but the time period was on where people were transitioning away from bikes as a form of transport.

Give us Dutch style infrastructure and cycling would increase even with compulsory lids, the other factor is geography – on my commute I’m up to 60kph within 45s of leaving the house due to the hills around here try doing that in the Netherlands 😉

Same opinion as botk. Once forgot my helmet on a ride and it felt really odd.

mber
why wouldnt you wear an helmet? (serious question

Why not ware a helmet running. Or why not always ware body armour considering major injuries are frequently body not head injury.

I think the problem is people roll all cycling from bmx, dh, hardcore road racing right through to popping to the shops and commuting in the same category. On top of that there is an expectation that falling off, or a east serious injury on a bike is always head injury. And on top of that there is some massive faith in helmet s being significant protection in accidents with cars.

I’m amazed people put such effort to get this made a law when all the evidence shows to reduces cycling injuries, you need to alter traffic flow and attitude, not mandate helmet wearing!

on my commute I’m up to 60kph within 45s of leaving the house

And you are free to ware a helmet, just as I am free not to when I pop to the shops and go max 20 kph. A perfect example of why the rolling of cycling into one group and applying to measure risk of the activity is stupid. It is so diverse.

II he’s going 60kph (lol) then you should be wearing full on motorbike gear.

I ride a quad without a helmet on the road too. Weird that’s legal. Nice though.

why wouldnt you wear an helmet? (serious question)

I’m not sure why I’m bothering as I don’t think anybody’s opinion was ever changed by one of these threads, but one reason not to wear a helmet is because it perpetuates the myth that cycling is a dangerous activity that is only undertaken by dare devils in full protective gear. Ride around in normal clothes and there is a chance that people will start to think that cycling is something that can be done by people like them.

If you don’t care about encouraging other people to cycle for its own sake then consider that one thing that has been shown to have a big positive effect on your safety as a cyclist is having more cyclists on the road.

mattyfez – Member
II he’s going 60kph (lol)

House on top of Hill, office at sea level. Quite common.

hello from Sydney – debate has been raging about this for the past few weeks, as the state has just passed a law which requires cars to pass cyclist with a gap of at least 1m.

The vitriol towards cyclist out here is pretty bad – and so they have softened the legislation (from a drivers perspective) by requiring that cyclists carry ID – and there has been a campaign of stopping cyclists without helmets/bells/lights and issuing fines.

This is the same logic that, in order to reduce pedestrian casualties, puts policemen on corners to issue fines to pedestrians for “jaywalking”.

Australians do not think like us.

Australians do not think like us.

Sweeping generalisation alert!!!!

Many think like a lot of brits, others think differently, some groups like this others hate if for going too far/not far enough

It’s a requirement here in BC too. I’ve never seen anyone pulled for not wearing a helmet, or even heard of anyone getting done.

Reasons for not wearing one:
It gets really hot here in the summer.
My journey only has 100m on the road.
I don’t think I’m that likely to fall off or get hit by a car when popping to the shops, or riding to the lifts.
I can’t find my helmet/left it at work/in the car/ somewhere else.
I don’t want to.

It’s happened twice now.. It’s ‘Wear’ FFS… /grammarpolice

Anyway I think the fundamental problem is just the excess of faith in polystyrene hats.

Those in the non-compulsion camp generally fail to get the point across to those incredulous at the idea of not wearing a lid…

They do work yes. But are most effective in a minor tumble, and its diminishing returns as speeds and impact energy increases. By the time your noggin is being bounced off of a transit van doing 40+, and then hitting a non-frangible bit of street furniture in a secondary impact, that £90 Giro has next to bugger all real benefit…

The problem with the dickhead debates (not a vine fan, sorry) is that terms like “protect” and “prevent” get chucked about in reference to helmets and injuries, when really they’re just last line of defence measures, primarily of use against minor knocks.

The perceived safety value of a helmet is repeatedly overplayed until it becomes an accepted “Fact” without much actual basis…

The other preceeding (mostly human reliant) measures there to prevent incidents, training, attentiveness, following prescribed rules, illumination, etc, are all slight eroded by the presumption that wost comes to the worst apparently “helmets save lives”. Helmets might save lives, but really you shouldn’t need them to…

batfink – Member
hello from Sydney –

Australians do not think like us.

Err, like yeah y’mate..

Watch any Fosters advert, then come back and explain that first.

I think you’re all mostly a bit mad, and going through some kinda social crisis.

When you pop out of it in 10 years, come back and let us know how you’ve progressed..

Governments are getting to far in our lives in Nice France they have cammeras in the street that are being monitored if you J walk or use a crossing wrongly a voice from a speaker in the CONTROLL CENTER police municipal tell’s you what to do and what not to do ……so Orwellean.

How about motorcycle helmets?
Or seat belts in cars, how do people feel about those?

How about motorcycle helmets?
Or seat belts in cars, how do people feel about those?

Anecdotally I’ve heard that the improved motorcycle and car safety measures is part of the reason we are short of organ donors. It was one of the biggest cause of death of healthy young people.

Still anecdotes are why his shit always drags on because my mate Dave fell off his bike and was told he would be dead if he wasn’t wearing a helmet.