Jeremy Corbyn

So while the EHRC investigate Labour and condemn them, they don’t bother investigating the Tories for racism and Islamophobia despite repeated requests from the Muslim Council of Britain and others including Tories, and any attempt to portray this as a bit unreasonable/suspect makes you an anti Semite/narcissist. Cool.

while the EHRC investigate Labour and condemn them, they don’t bother investigating the Tories for racism and Islamophobia despite repeated requests from the Muslim Council of Britain and others including Tories

True

any attempt to portray this as a bit unreasonable/suspect makes you an anti Semite/narcissist

Who’s saying this?

The EHRC report says that attempting to claim there has been any kind of weaponising of AS against Corbyn isn’t ok. Most on this thread seem to agree.

And KS is trying to make out that JC said it was JUST a witch-hunt etc which he expressly didn’t.

Those are different points. Your previous post was (what)about portrayal of the EHRC for not investigating the Tories.

Most on this thread seem to agree.

I don’t. You can go ahead and complain about the (very real) AS problem being used by Corbyn’s “enemies” against him, and that because of all the noise around it the public thinking it is much more rife among Labour party members than it really is.

But, the person who was leader of the party during the events investigated should, when responding to the publishing of the report, accept its findings without whatabouterisms about AS being prominent elsewhere, or complaining about being the victim. Save that for another time. Accept the report, apologise, apologise again.

accept its findings without whatabouterisms about AS being prominent elsewhere, or complaining about being the victim

Can you point to where he actually did either of those things?

I give up. Have a nice denialism day.

I’m not denying I’m asking you to provide the quotes that prove what you’re saying. It should be pretty easy no?

Grum

Corbyn’s statement about AS was clear in that he hates the very thought of it. He could have concluded his statement with “It happened when I was Leader and therefore I am very sorry”. Instead he chose to mention exaggeration. Wrong time, wrong place.

You shouldn’t actually need reminding of this, but it’s worth remembering that the victims here are the people at the receiving end of the vile abuse, some of whom were hounded out of the party.

The victim here IS NOT Jeremy Corbyn

Despite him obviously thinking that he is

Despite him obviously thinking that he is

He’s had his previously impeccable reputation as an opponent of racism destroyed and is now commonly regarded as an anti-semite when that is demonstrably not the case, as you yourself admitted a few posts ago. I’d say he has grounds for complaint.

In addition the left in general are now seen as anti-semites. This also isn’t true but it’s become de facto truth, and anyone who attempts to defend themselves against such accusations is branded as an anti-semite. I myself have felt many times that people are insinuating that I’m an anti-semite for daring to take a different view. So you’ll forgive us if we’re just a little bit pissed off.

You shouldn’t actually need reminding of this

I don’t, thanks.

So you’ll forgive us if we’re just a little bit pissed off.

It’s not about you.

There is a straight forward way to accept this report, and act on it, without the “we’re the real victims” response. Not the time and place.

He’s had his previously impeccable reputation as an opponent of racism destroyed and is now commonly regarded as an anti-semite when that is demonstrably not the case, as you yourself admitted a few posts ago. I’d say he has grounds for complaint.

In addition the left in general are now seen as anti-semites. This also isn’t true but it’s become de facto truth, and anyone who attempts to defend themselves against such accusations is branded as an anti-semite. I myself have felt many times that people are insinuating that I’m an anti-semite for daring to take a different view. So you’ll forgive us if we’re just a little bit pissed off.

Sure.

But what good is it doing anybody other than De Pfeffel and his mates to keep banging on about it? And that includes Corbyn himself. Every utterance from now on keeps the story high up on the news agenda and gives De Pfeffel et al more relief from scrutiny.

Diane Abbott, the former shadow home secretary, replied to Ms Butler on Twitter, saying: “A couple of years ago my staff stopped me opening my own mail in order to hide from me most of the racist and abusive stuff. But I know they have been reduced to tears by some of the stuff they have seen.”

Ms Dhrodia, whose 2018 report discovered black women were 84 per cent more likely than white women to be mentioned in abusive tweets, said black women faced a “particular denigration of online abuse” that simultaneously targets both their gender and their race which is commonly referred to as misogynoir.

Kate Allen, director of Amnesty International UK, condemned reports of “huge levels of online abuse” against black women MPs for expressing support for Black Lives Matter protests.

She said: “Reports of horrifying levels of online abuse against black women MPs are deeply concerning. Our research has revealed the shocking levels of abusive tweets hurled against women of colour in politics and public life, especially black women. The content of this abuse can be extremely disturbing – including death and rape threats – and have a chilling effect on people’s willingness to speak out.

Where were all these anti-racist campaigners when this was going on, or is it only anti-semitism that matters? What political parties do we think the people who dole out this abuse constantly support?

No one has claimed there isn’t a problem with AS in the Labour Party, including Corbyn – but it has been portrayed in a ludicrously disproportionate manner. Both things can be true.

“we’re the real victims” response.

No one has said that.

Not the time and place.

When is the time and the place? Once you’ve utterly ceded control of the narrative to right wing tabloid newspapers?

is it only anti-semitism that matters?

Whatabout…

Most of us have condemned repeatedly the abuse that Abbot receives.

We know racism is worse amongst the supporters of other parties. But, when responding to a report specifically about AS in Labour… accepting the findings and apologising should not include such whataboutisms… not the time and place.

Some of you have taken part in it.

Whataboutery is sometimes fatuous but sometimes it’s just making a valid comparison or pointing out double standards – this is one of those times.

What you are doing is accepting and legitimising the fact that when unacceptable abuse can be used to denigrate the Labour Party, then it’s fair game for exploitation.

Nobody is defending racism, directed towards Dianne Abbott, or anybody else

What we’re saying is that when an independent enquiry concludes that under your ‘leadership’ (or lack of…) an atmosphere where racism was tolerated has developed and then not been adequately dealt with, a degree of contrition might be in order, and here’s a crazy idea… an apology.

A proper apology, like you actually mean it. Not a sulking toddler saying ‘sorry, not sorry’

Instead, telling everybody to stop being horrid to you isn’t really the way to go

Though hardly unexpected

There are double standards. But an apology that moans about problems elsewhere is a dud apology. And as for complaining about the public thinking AS is far worse than it is in Labour… well a proper unqualified apology from Corbyn as regards the findings of the report would help to start to dispel that perception.

It’s funny binners, I don’t remember anti-semitism being a big issue for you until it became a useful stick to beat JC with. Remind me of your decades long history of fighting against racism?

But what good is it doing anybody other than De Pfeffel and his mates to keep banging on about it?

You seriously think they’re going to shut up about it? AS will stalk Starmers leadership every bit as much as Corbyn’s. They’re already going after Angela Rayner and others in the party despite the apologies they and Starmer have made. They won’t stop until the Starmer leadership goes the same way as the Corbyn one. The witchunt will continue, the slander will continue, and the failure of the labour party to defend itself will continue. This isn’t going to stop because Starmer throws himself at the mercy of people who want to see him and the labour party destroyed.

It’s funny binners, I don’t remember anti-semitism being a big issue for you until it became a useful stick to beat JC with. Remind me of your decades long history of fighting against racism?

Does everyone have to publish a full list of their left-wing credentials before being allowed to criticise St Jeremy, or is it just me?

Because that, in itself, is actually potentially Binnersist 😛

Mainly you because I don’t think you really give a toss about AS, apart from how it helps you to denigrate someone who, despite his flaws, has helped more people than you ever will.

As DazH says regardless of what JC says this won’t stop here. Every time anyone vaguely associated with Labour says anything that might be construed as AS they will be vilified and it will be further evidence of their problem, while the Tories can say whatever they want and get away with it. And you are all fine with that for some weird reason.

So what should Starmer do? Say he doesn’t accept the EHRC report findings? It’s not up to him (or Corbyn or anyone else for that matter) to decide whether to accept them or not – the findings are what they are within the statutory remit of the EHRC. It’s his job to act on them which he’s doing. The rest is whataboutery and grum bling…

er, editing away attempted levity…

He’s had his previously impeccable reputation as an opponent of racism

sorry, his what? Corbyn has at the very least a personal blind spot when it comes to AS and at worst could reasonably use some advice. (some examples: celebrating murals depicting Jewish characters, standing on platform with people who think the blood libel is real, authoring glowing forwards to books written by avowedly anti Semitic authors)

so his credentials here are not “impeccable” by any standard

Mainly you because I don’t think you really give a toss about AS, apart from how it helps you to denigrate someone who, despite his flaws, has helped more people than you ever will.

That’s a bold statement. You’re actually saying there that I don’t care about antisemitism?

Just to reiterate… That’s what you’re actually saying there.

I know you don’t like me, and never miss an opportunity to have a dig, and frankly I couldn’t give a monkeys what you think of me. But I really think that’s a step too far and is glaringly offensive. As well as being untrue.

I’ll give you a minute or two to edit that and apologise before I do something I’ve never done before and report a post on here

That’s a bold statement. You’re actually saying there that I don’t care about antisemitism?

I think you care far more about having a useful stick to beat JC with. That much is obvious.

Again… have a read back of what you’re accusing me of here, and have a think about how that comes across, while you’ve still time to edit it and apoligise.

Theres no way I’m sitting back and have you throw accusations like that at me

Report away

Done

Theres no way I’m sitting back and have you throw accusations like that at me

Welcome to the club of being accused of things you’re not. Not nice is it? That’s the nature of witchunts, the more you protest your innocence, the more guilty you are. I think its about time everyone wound their necks in.

Indeed.

Stop making this about Binners, or yourself… it’s not… it’s about a report into AS in Labour that should have been accepted by all involved, and resulted in unqualified apologies from all with a senior role in Labour during the time the events unfolded. Others managed it. Corbyn thought that he couldn’t, or shouldn’t… whatever… his choice.

All I will say, is that posting lots on here is a sure sign of my deteriorating mental health. This is the only social media I still bother with, probably time to give this up too. I thought leaving FB would prevent getting into stupid arguments.

Indeed… let’s stop this being personal.. it shouldn’t be. None of us are the guy this thread is about. Comments on his actions should not be taken by anyone as a personal attack on anyone posting here. Those defending his actions should not be attacked personally for doing so.

Anyway, someone was asking last night what utopia looks like. Anyone interested in alternative solutions to the current deadend one way ticket to destruction should read the following..

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-post-scarcity-anarchism-1

or as a pdf..

https://libcom.org/files/Post-Scarcity%20Anarchism%20-%20Murray%20Bookchin.pdf

It’s a much more interesting subject than anti-semitism 😉

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I’ll post a public reply to Binners’ complaint as he’s chosen to make the complaint public.

I’ve not read the whole thread and it looks like this argument has been simmering for several pages now at least. I do not believe that it’s within our remit – or indeed, fair – to be picking sides in an ongoing spat. There’s also an argument of “live by the sword,” if you’re going to choose to participate in heated debates about difficult subjects then you need to accept that others are going to argue back.

That said, personal abuse is in breach of the forum T&Cs. Is that what’s happened here? Potentially, yes.

But the discussion has moved on since then, including discussing the accusation, making clean-up awkward and messy. Would making the last page disappear achieve anything?

So I’ll just say this, as others have already suggested. Please play nicely people, this squabbling just creates more work and grief for us. If this carries on we won’t be playing “he said she said” and trying to unpick it, we’ll just give you both a holiday.

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Anyway, I thought you two were mates?

binners and I have kissed and made up via PM, and we are now lovers. Apologies for the sidetrack everyone.

Indeed. All sorted

We’ve just disappointed that with lockdown we couldn’t go out somewhere nice for dinner