Jeremy Corbyn

Damn straight, brother Todd!

What we need is someone popular with teh yoof and gets them to vote anything at all, with morals, ideas and dare I say it ‘policies’ supported by not just the traditional left, but also swing and even right wing voters and who can get over 50% when we gerrymander the bejeesus out of the next leadership coup.

IGMC

Just an illustration of what would probably happen.

Of course, but it’s not something that’s impossible to do something about, which is what the likes of Jamba would have everyone believe.

He’s just not a leader of a country. End of story.

Don’t disagree. Unlike many on this thread though I’m not particularly interested in the whole Jeremy Corbyn personality cult, and more interested in the ideas he represents. It’s quite tragic that it’s all become about him. The problem with Corbyn is his image, personality and his history, but not his policies which IMO have broad support. If the labour party can find a more competent and charismatic leader then these policies might have a chance of being implemented. It’s a big if though, as currently the labour party is bereft of anyone who could win an election. They can’t even find anyone to beat Corbyn, which says an awful lot about those who claim to be better than him.

Julian – that’s not fair. He has loads of policies, he even makes them up intra day – so much so that he contradicts himself. That is why he is such good value and worth 346 pages of comment. He has 37 policies on FoM alone. Ok, I exaggerate, 30….

He’s a genius. Most politicians have to go to focus groups or advisors. Not ond Jezza. Just make it up and mix it with his old bird Di De and you’re off.

Is he in Marr tomorrow, that could be another handful of policies.

As an aside, WTF have politicians got to do with an exchange between the suppliers and providers of labour?

Thm, it’s a novel way of generating ideas I’ll grant you, like a sort of comedy scattergun approach.

Only somehow some of these crazy ideas keep being popular with unexpectedly large numbers of not always very left wing people. What if that crazy “chuck an idea out there and see what the surveys of actual voters say” became the new focus group? Seems to have worked for brexit and the comedic and unelectable trump and yet JC is far less heavy on the “Mis-speaks”.

Thm you are excellent at arguing the policy not the man but the other thrust of this thread is “no policies and out of touch”. His responses to NHS crisis and this crazy salary cap idea seem to challenge this, twice in a week, who knew?!

And amazingly, despite the chaos that is brexit and the Conservative party at the moment, Labour seems to have the relative luxury (who would want to lead the U.K. right now?!) of an opposition PM who is not going anywhere so a couple of years left to turn them into a costed manifesto.

Remember when the opposition didn’t have to firm much quite so much of this up less than 2 years after losing a GE? Feels like those days were only 5 or 10 years ago… 😉

This all must be terribly perturbing.

I think I missed his substantive NHS policies other than get rid of the Tories. That’s doesn’t seem to be going down to well at the moment. very odd…

But you are correct, saying silly things has worked wonders for the Brexshiteers, for Trump, the SNP, so the perplexing thing – given that trend – why not for our old mate Jezza? Very odd…..very odd indeed.

What a sad bunch you lot are!

Still arguing over somebody that will never/will ever lead the UK.

Guilty as charged, arguing about JC on the internet on a Saturday night. Many who voted for him as leader though believed he could win. Still do.

The problem with Corbyn is his image, personality, and his history and but not his policies none of which IMO have broad support

@dazh I think you’ll find his policies have very little support. We all appreciate the sentiments it’s his reaction to them, ie his policies we don’t agree with.

I think you’ll find his policies have very little support.

Remember what I was saying earlier about your tendency to present your opinion as fact? Up here in the grim north I can guarantee you that stuff like renationalising the railways, getting the rich to pay their tax, not privatising the NHS, funding schools etc are very popular. Politicians who ignore them do so at their peril.

“Substantive policies…. , again, remember the days when this stuff didn’t matter so much 19 months into a 60 month term of opposition?

But yes there is plenty more on record and with public and professional support from Jc about health besides ‘win the election’. Actually is that what you meant by “getting rid of the tories” or are you perhaps implying that the owners of failing residential and nursing homes and the staff of profit-making healthcare providers with contracts >250k and offshore tax arrangements are indeed ‘the tories’?)

You’re correct Julan I DID overlook nationalising care holmes -,sorry I assumed that no one took that seriously.

But I am biased, after three days of NHS care at home I’m afraid I had to bite the bullet and pay for it this week so I am thankfull for the choice. So my view is tainted by current experience.

FFS just get a life you sad pricks! JC is not the answer or the problem, you lot, arguing over him ARE the problem!

As flippant as this comment was probably intended, it actually raises an interesting and very serious point about how the lack of engagement in politics is a major problem 😉

‘Nationalise’ is a bit sensationalist, non? And not really what he said at all. But don’t let that get on the way of a good headline, eh?
Curious about your thoughts on the other bit I mentioned. Again, putting aside hw you administer it, it’s such an obvious one in terms of warming the cockles of the average tabloid reader that I am surprised the conservatives haven’t beaten him to it and suggested it already.

But I am biased, after three days of NHS care at home I’m afraid I had to bite the bullet and pay for it this week so I am thankfull for the choice. So my view is tainted by current experience.

Indeed. Under-resource, claim it’s broken and then offer choice of contracted out profit-making service (I know how much you hate the ‘p’ word) is the oldest trick in the book. Glad you’re staying objective about it.

Crap trick actually, Having been involved in privatisations in the past, I know the real trick is normally to make it look good not awful. Are yo sure that you don’t mean asset stripping?

I got the term nationalise from a labour website, forgive me if that was wrong, working out what Jezza is saying is a bit hard these days isn’t it.

As flippant as this comment was probably intended, it actually raises an interesting and very serious point about how the lack of engagement in politics is a major problem

Very true, also JC is also not the solution (just a very naughty boy) but he is part of the problem he just doesn’t know it. He is the most popular guy in a room full of his supporters, he is somebody who really needs his own party

…………..and this is why the Labour Party will LOSE the next general election. And, these argumentative socialists just cannot see it!

Laughable.

Having been involved in privatisations in the past, I know the real trick is normally to make it look good not awful. Are yo sure that you don’t mean asset stripping?

So we are privatising the NHS? I thought you said we weren’t?

I think the trick here is winning over the owners and recipients of the service, and then the voters. Chomsky put it the best, but of course you know that.

Actually its a brilliant ‘therapeutic bind.’ (google that, and look for the parallels to recruiting people to cults for that matter 😯 )

“Your health service is doomed -a combination of bad fortune and reckless overuse by you and your fellow countrymen are responsible for it, sinner. Oh, and those nasty greedy GP’s with their 60 hour weeks. Slackers. But we are the ones that can save you, it will be hard but you just need to trust us.”

I’m not sure THM, Jamba, ninfan and cranberry will appreciate being described as argumentative socialists 🙂

They are argumentative though.

Chomsky put it the best

Bravo. 346 pages and that’s the first mention (I think) of Chomsky. I sometimes think there should be a Chomsky’s law as an opposite to Godwin’s. 🙂

Daz my thoughts (btw I said “I think”)

Up here in the grim north I can guarantee you that stuff like
1) renationalising the railways
2) getting the rich to pay their tax
3) not privatising the NHS
4) funding schools etc are very popular.

1) Maybe but as someone who has commuted by train for nearly 30 years I’m against and I would say that’s the general view down here – strikes, big increases in fares and government debt to pay for all the upgrades, pay rises, extra staff
2) Top 1% pay 29%, tackling tax evasion is something all parties agree on. Non Dom numbers rose massively under Blair. Corbyn doesn’t mean getting the rich to pay their tax, he means tax someone esle much more heavily. Middle England knows that means them. The real rich are very mobile, certainly their assets are.
3) No one is privatising the NHS, plus see the other thread
4) Tories ring fenced education against necessary budget cuts overall. There simply isn’t the money to do more at the moment

Boring!

Can you not take this argument to somewhere else? Seriously, the ‘ I love, I hate’ JC discussion is wearing thin with everybody else!

Bravo. 346 pages and that’s the first mention (I think) of Chomsky.

8)

My posting history over the last year would suggest I miss a great deal that goes on here these days, but I don’t hear Chomsky often if ever mentioned on stw. Funny considering the sorts of posters on here, and how often I hear of him elsewhere in internetland.

But then the reverse is true for red dwarf and Hg2g jokes though.

@Toddboy it’s not obligatory to read every thread.

or comment on them!

Whatever. Just getting bored with you two loving JC all the time.

Maybe but as someone who has commuted by train for nearly 30 years I’m against and I would say that’s the general view down here – strikes, big increases in fares and government debt to pay for all the upgrades, pay rises, extra staff

I’m not sure Southern Rail commuters would agree. I have yet to meet a single person in this country who would say ‘Yes, I think the railways are really good’. We’ve had 20 years of rail privatisation. That should have been enough time to fix the problems of British Rail, no?

No one is privatising the NHS

Again, absolutely no one I know would agree with this, and that includes a fair number of GPs, hospital doctors, nurses, social workers, paramedics, ambulance drivers and others who work or used to work in the NHS. In the NHS the privatisation agenda is an accepted fact, and the general pubic are not far behind.

Toddboy – Member

Whatever. Just getting bored with you two loving JC all the time.

It’s a 346 page thread and i have posted on it on about three days of the 18 months it has been running. Is that ‘all the time?” In fact you have about four fewer posts on this thread than I do. 😛

[edit] dazh, THM insists that whatever it is that is happening, the NHS is not being privatised. Although perhaps he may be warming to his idea in his last post above. In a way i don’t disagree with him, its not as straightforward a change as it was when the railways or untilities were privatised, but then neither is the nature of the business. ‘Choice’ in the health service is still largely an illusion and also not one that currently ‘cost to the cosumer’ is a factor in, (as it might be for me in terms of which long-distance train service or energy supplier broker, but also we are not really consumers of healthcare in the way we are of train journeys, bus rides, gas/water/phone/electricity.
However in terms of health and indeed statutory social services, what we do need is a cross-party term for whatever is happening that factors in the profit and commercial interest into ‘doing things ‘for free’ to/for sometimes desperate and vulnerable people that would rather not need to use your service at all’.

Whatever. Just getting bored with you two loving JC all the time.

Blimey, if you think this is boring what will you make of the 20,000 posts on the EU thread. We’ve been saying mostly the same stuff for what 9 months ? 🙂

Again, ‘whatever’.

I really couldn’t care less about counting posts/comments/or whatever gets you going.

It’s just seeing this JC thread all the time here that really bores the life out of me!

It’s just seeing this JC thread all the time here that really bores the life out of me!

Have you considered not clicking the link?

It’s just seeing this JC thread all the time here that really bores the life out of me!

And yet you keep clicking and commenting on it! What’s up, is the rest of the forum even more boring?

Pro tip: there is another page with more bike-related stuff and another one with stuff for sale on it too. and on the chat page, the ones about big diy projects are great fun.

Again, absolutely no one I know would agree with this, and that includes a fair number of GPs, hospital doctors, nurses, social workers, paramedics, ambulance drivers and others who work or used to work in the NHS. In the NHS the privatisation agenda is an accepted fact, and the general pubic are not far behind.

You do know that GP services have always been privatised? The question is why won’t JC nationalise them?

The old boy is on Marr now – looking q smart

One of the panelists on the news quiz on Friday night summed it up, he doesn’t actually remember he is leader of the labour party and gets confused when reporters ask him about stuff this Jeremy bloke has been saying.

Oh dear his understanding of Brexshit is vague to say the least

Lots of cliches but no answers and still peddling inequality despite it falling for some period now

Damn Tory press!

😉

And struggling on FoM

Marr having fun now!!!

“Do you still agree with yourself?” 😆

Biased media ^2 😉

Marr pi¥¥ taking is amusing. Subtle but hard hiting

(Horrible socks – did he get dressed in the dark?)

He’s not very slick yet at avoiding the question “How are you going to pay for this?”. Burbling on about “bargain-basements” and the like….

More entertainment coming up – Andrew Neil interviewing Piers Morgan about The Donald. 😯

I dont see the problem with talking about inequality even if it is falling. Its higher than most other countries. Corbyn wants the gap to decrease, we all do right?

More interesting than Corbyn on Marr is Len McClusky and Gererd Coyne both being interviewed on Pinnaers Poltics on Five Live about the leadership of UNITE. This shows exactly where the Labour Party is at the moment.

Len, like Corbyn, just sounds like a dinasaur who’s political compass was calibrated in 1975, and hasn’t moved an inch since. They’re incapable of moving on, and engaging with the world as it is. It’s no wonder they’re totally failing to engage with voters. Who on earth still identifies with this type of language, and confrontational us and them attitude? Clearly not many people, judging from the polls

He has also introduced the phrase ‘hard right’ to describe those within the Labour Party who oppose the glorious leader.

At least Coyne addresses relevant issues facing labour voters, or former voters, and the direction of the party. For example, in the upcoming Copeland by-election, why would a worker at Sellafield vote for a party with a leader who has railed against the nuclear industry for decades.