Jeremy Corbyn

I agree corbyn is not that talented but its obvious that constant attacks form the “true heart of labour” will do nothing but undermine and hurt the party

Pointless debate none of us are going to change pour opinion and our squabbling serves only to hurt the party and help the tories

How the party gets united I dont know but it is certainly not this way.

Not that talented? This is a man who’s grand ‘relaunch consisted of him contradicting his own position within the same sentence. Absolutely clueless!

that constant attacks form the “true heart of labour”

who’s attacked him? Theres been silence from the labour benches since his re-election. Nobody has said a word. I think that says more about the paranoia of the left than anything else.

Nobody is bothering to attack him, least of all the Tory’s. Nobody needs to. He does it to himself.

Labour MP’s will just follow their former voters, and just give up on the party.

Hurray for the ‘new’ left! 🙄

As Binners says the PLP have been keeping quiet. Corbyn managed the relaunch fiasco all by himself. Corbyn is not subject to disloyalty or internal critism at the moment nor are the Tories attacking him.

Stoke on Trent

Leave 69% Remain 31%
2015: Hunt 12k (39%), UKIP 7k (23), Tories 7k (23) – Lib Dems dropped from 2nd in 2005 to 5th.

Shock UKIP win ?

yes binners the silence is in no way a means of attacking him and is not at all designed to undermine him in any way. Furthermore nothing you have ever said could in any way be seen as an attack on him

Which one of us has our head in the sand and is denying reality…i am confused perhaps I need a pastry based sugar rush 😉

Somewhat predictably. There’s bound to be a mass exodus of MP’s who are just tired of banging their head against a brick wall, faced with the impossible task of following a clueless leader into political oblivionare too arrogant to accept their members’ democratic decisions, and uniting behind their leader

FTFY.

Shock UKIP win ?

If they dont Nuttall will be in trouble, especially as he is anti-NHS

I think I know how this will be fought…

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/health/2016/12/15/staffordshire-to-lose-ae-department-under-plans-to-make-542m-cuts/

unless ukip can find that bus 😉

By the looks of things, Dr is letting the desire to argue with you cloud his judgement here. He is not alone, as you mention the subject of this thread makes the same mistake.

The facts are what they are. The implication that this measure of income inequality has fallen due to Tory magnanimity and social conscience is incorrect, so jamba’s negotiation of the slope resembles mostly Eddy the Eagle 🙂

Eddy the Eagle

British record holder in his day 🙂

No Dr, the arguments that income inequality continues to rise under the Tories is what was being falsified. This is a common narrative, used again by Jezza that is factually incorrect.

I am not one to give too much credit to politicians, but there is also a specific policy response that has helped reduce inequality under the Coalition and Tories, so you are still on a slippery slope. But thats a minor secondary point

Junkyard – lazarus
yes binners the silence is in no way a means of attacking him and is not at all designed to undermine him in any way. Furthermore nothing you have ever said could in any way be seen as an attack on him

As binns has pointed out, the silenced ones don’t need to attack Jeremy – he’s busy doing that himself…

Respect as leader is earned not given. He can’t lead a party, that’s clear.

I was amused by this line from the RSPB website about cuckoos

Their recent population decline makes this a Red List species.

Suzanne Moore was quite on point with this para

Talking about pay differentials is good, riffing without facts or figures is not. Likewise, vague expressions of concern about austerity, inequality and neoliberalism are now a political code that results in a vast switch off. More code was uttered by Corbyn with his talk of “managed migration” and “access” to the single market. Everyone has access; the point is the terms of that access, and managed migration is not going to be one of them. That makes his utterances meaningless.

JY is right. Corbyn’s competence, and that of the team around him is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is that he won a democratic election for the leadership of the party. Twice. The second time he won even after the party executive did their utmost to gerrymander the vote by first arbitrarily changing the rules to exclude existing members who had previously been promised a vote, and then shamelessly excluding thousands of members on extremely spurious grounds (tweets in support of green party policies for instance), or just not sending out ballots (I know of a few people who didn’t receive a ballot with no explanation). And yet they still lost!

Corbyn can’t quit as he’s won two overwhelming mandates from the membership to change the party. Expecting him to quit is naive and frankly insulting to the membership. If the PLP and others want rid of him, the mechanism to do that is clear. Find a candidate who can beat him in an election. Their failure to do that so far says just as much about their own incompetence as Corbyn’s.

JY is right. Corbyn’s competence, and that of the team around him is irrelevant.

😯

Hail Reg!

THM you tease still not able to try and defeat my points yourself but happy to still use emojis… shame you dont have the courage of your convictions and try a debate

Respect as leader is earned not given. He can’t lead a party, that’s clear.

Well its a bit of both isnt it
They never respected him nor the decision and he cannot lead those who dont want to follow him- who could argue against that as it is what the labour party currently is.

As daz notes they cannot beat him, so they dont support him, and we have this impasse where everything is his fault
That is not a very sound logical position. they keep losing voites and not respecting the decision I am not sure this is actually his fault. He is not blameless either as he is not that competent.

the silenced ones don’t need to attack Jeremy – he’s busy doing that himself

they have not been silenced they have chosen to use silence as a method of opposing him/usurping the party decision despite the last attempt at underhand tactics spectacularly backfiring on them

Bluntly the issue is the party support him and the PLP dont
How we/they resolve this is an interesting discussion but i dont think its by ignoring democracy and siding with those who dont have a party mandate for their view
If you disagree then by all means explain why – this might require a wee bit more than an emoji THM

JY is right. Corbyn’s competence, and that of the team around him is irrelevant.

That is just superb. You do understand that he is meant to:

1. Oppose the government competently
2. Make it obvious to the electorate that he could run the country better
3. Get voted into power

No!! Really !! LOL!!

But anyway, enjoy the wonderful prospects of post-competence politics, where waffling virtue signalling is more important than leading or being competent.

Presumably those defending the point that JeremeyJeremy is doing a meaningful job because he was voted in, have no problem with The Trump being POTUS because he was voted in…

It seems like Neil Coyle thinks that having no real plan and weak leadership[/url] isn’t necessarily a great strategy for success as well.

Meanwhile the conservatives will get on with the business of running the country.

have no problem with The Trump being POTUS because he was voted in

I don’t have a problem with the fact he’s in because he was voted in.

I have a problem with the fact that people voted for him…

That is just superb. You do understand that he is meant to:

Obviously that’s not what I’m talking about, but I accept I should have been clearer to preempt the pedants on here looking to win internet debating points.

I’m talking about that Suzanne Moore piece and her opinion that he should quit of his own accord for the good of the party. He has no choice. The only thing relevant to whether he remains leader of the labour party is whether he can win a leadership election. His opponents have clearly not figured this out yet, and the sooner they do the better for all concerned, not least Corbyn himself and the party’s chances of ever forming a govt again.

I dont always like democratic results but that does not mean i can just ignore them and the wishes of the people or the party. If i choose to oppose then i have to use the democratic process and this failed for the PLP and yet they still wont accept the decision

I dont think anyone thinks its going well the only debate seems to be on who is to blame him for the PLP hating him and not following him or the party or the leader for having been voted in. I think the PLPs job is to represent the parties wishes and those wishes are clear. its not their job to make sure the parties wishes fail because they disagree they had their vote twice and lost both times. They seem intent on destroying the party to get their way
Corbyn clearly wont stand aside- not sure folk who can win elections often do stand aside to the losers but hey lets still blame him- so we have this stand off.
it would be better if they agreed to work together but as it is bridges have been burned, then burned again and finally just to be sure they burned them again.

It’s going well then…..

The tweet referenced;

I’m talking about that Suzanne Moore piece and her opinion that he should quit of his own accord for the good of the party. He has no choice.

True. He’ll do exactly what John and Len bloody well tell him to do, or they’ll carry on giving him wedgies and nicking his dinner money

Theres been silence from the labour benches since his re-election. Nobody has said a word.

Basically the last resort. “Go on then Jeremy, crack on with it and see what happens”. The silence will be deafening if Copeland is lost to the tories. If they can get him up to the constituency to ‘help’ then the trap will be well and truly sprung. If he doesn’t go then equally tricky questions will be asked.

Of course, that assumes Copeland won’t be Labour after the by-election…

Obviously that’s not what I’m talking about, but I accept I should have been clearer to preempt the pedants on here looking to win internet debating points.

We know what you said, you know what you said.

I dont think anyone thinks its going well the only debate seems to be on who is to blame him for the PLP hating him and not following him

That would be, er, him…

Its definitely his fault the party vote for him and definitely his fault the PLP keep losing the vote and definitely his ault the PLP wont accept it or work with the elected leader….that is indeed how democracy works
Good point well made [ and mercifully brief 😉 ]

We know what you said, you know what you said.

and we know you deliberately distorted it by taking it out of context

clearly he was speaking re winning the labour leadership- that much was obvious as was your distortion

I think the PLPs job is to represent the parties wishes and those wishes are clear. its not their job to make sure the parties wishes fail because they disagree they had their vote twice and lost both times.

Indeed. Not that difficult to understand is it? If labour MPs cannot accept the clear and unambiguous wishes of the party membership, then they have only one option open to them. I actually have a fair amount of respect for the likes of Hunt. Better to get out of the way and do something else than hang around and snipe from the sidelines which will only do more damage.

Its definitely his fault the party vote for him

Glad you brought that up. All he had to do, after his first year of incompetence, was to stand up and say “look, folks, I am crap, I’m clueless, I make the worst Miliband look like a good idea, I am not standing for election as leader of the party”.

Even he could have ( probably ) managed to do that.

Instead, egotistical moron that he is, he put his name on the ballot and fought to win.

So yes, Its definitely his fault the party vote for him.

If they cannot beat a candidate like that then how shit are the PLP ?
Sorry my mistake they are not shit its his fault

Best of the 4 candidates.

Tristram Hunt LOL he can go- cheerio! Useless bag of wind anyway. Though I am suprised he could leave behind his beloved Stoke. I remember his speech on Question Time when he was considering running for Labour leader “I first became aware of inequality on the mean streets of Brooklyn”

EDIT: Though I would say Hunt would have been a better candidate for leader than the others who stood in the original election as would have been Umuna.

Council elections going well yesterday

Gade Valley (Three Rivers) result:
LDEM: 60.9% (+24.0)
CON: 19.1% (-22.9)
LAB: 11.6% (-9.6)
UKIP: 6.7% (+6.7)
GRN: 1.8% (+1.8)

and in brexit heartland…..

Sandhill (Sunderland) result:
LDEM: 45.0% (+41.5)
LAB: 25.0% (-29.9)
UKIP: 18.7% (-7.2)
CON: 10.0% (-5.7)
GRN: 1.3% (+1.3)

Junkyard – lazarus
Its definitely his fault the party vote for him and definitely his fault the PLP keep losing the vote and definitely his ault the PLP wont accept it or work with the elected leader….that is indeed how democracy works

Yep, including the bit where the “leader” has to look credible to the electorate and not just the political hipster band-wagon jumpers of his personal guard and fan club.

At least try and have a grown up debate [ logic , reason points and counter points] rather than just use OTT invective hyperbole

Sorry my mistake they are not shit its his fault

Ironic really as the central criticism they level against Corbyn is that he refuses to accept the wishes of the electorate and instead expects them to come over to his point of view. All that stuff about him living in his comfort zone and they can’t see that’s exactly what they’re doing. The transparent hypocrisy and arrogance that these simple rules don’t apply to them are exactly why they can’t beat him.

Junkyard – lazarus
At least try and have a grown up debate [ logic , reason points and counter points] rather than just use OTT invective hyperbole

Point nicely avoided with some OTT invective, there… 😆

So childish is all you can do , shame.

I decline to get involved

I assume you’re not interested in the UK having an elected Labour Government, but only in the “purity” of the leadership’s socialist credentials and loyalty of his acolytes.

Were it any other, there wouldn’t be any point in supporting the useless article so doggedly.

Islington North will be the next by-election, the sitting MP will resign on health grounds

😉

The only relevant thing is that he won a democratic election for the leadership of the party. Twice.

Voted for by what is the largest political party, in terms of membership in Europe.

But it will mean nothing at the election that matters.

If i choose to oppose then i have to use the democratic process and this failed for the PLP and yet they still wont accept the decision

Because the PLP know this party is now un-electable.

If they cannot beat a candidate like that then how shit are the PLP ?

The PLP are not going to beat anyone unless they field a candidate thats as left wing(unelectable in general elections) as Corbyn. The party with its voting system has effectively neutralized itself.

he refuses to accept the wishes of the electorate and instead expects them to come over to his point of view.

This how the left works, it is one trait they share with the right.

While all this is happening:

Meanwhile the conservatives will get on with the business of ruining the country.

FTFY Cranberry.