Jeremy Corbyn

I missed it 😳 Got the time wrong

dazh, yes you are right most Labour MPs recognise he is a disaster and I can well believe most voters think the same. It is however a comment worthy rolling disaster as far as I am concerned

Labour couod have picked David not Ed and reacted to 2010 and 2015 by actually listening to what voters where telling them. The world has moved tightwards as normally happens in times of economic stress. The stress is going to get worse and imo so is the shift in the voter base.

Labour couod have picked David not Ed

Wouldn’t have got them anywhere, David M was as bad, if not worse, at politics as his brother.

It’s funny because the people most obsessed with him seem to be you lot.

That’s not a surprise, he is currently their greatest political asset.

Labour couod have picked David not Ed and reacted to 2010 and 2015 by actually listening to what voters where telling them. The world has moved tightwards as normally happens in times of economic stress. The stress is going to get worse and imo so is the shift in the voter base.

As always you’re big on sweeping statements and small on evidence. Apart from pointless whataboutery, there’s no evidence D Miliband would have been any more successful than his brother. What voters were saying in the last two elections is highly debatable as evidenced by the brexit vote. Established wisdom has always been that the economy drives voting intentions, but that has been demolishd by brexit. And as for the world moving rightwards in times of economic stress, there are plenty of examples yes, but also plenty examples of the opposite happening.

You’re right on one thing though, the economic stress is going to get worse, due to brexit (glad you’re finally admitting this BTW!), Trump and globalisation. The outcome of this remains to be seen though.

That’s not a surprise, he is currently their greatest political asset.

Yes, probably. It also shows that this could be the source of the tories future defeat. They currently reek of complacency and hubris. Brexit is the perfect example, and it will come back to bite them. The labour party is neither as weak or incompetent as everyone is currently making them out to be. The biggest barrier to their eventual revival is not Corbyn, but their ability to move on from outdated and failed New Labour stategy, and there are signs that they are finally doing that.

Fact remains Labour promised far less money for the NHS than did Cameron

Fact remains the money was conditional of finding 22bn of “savings”, so does not represent a big wad of free cash.

He wasn’t too bad today. Fact remains Labour promised far less money for the NHS than did Cameron.

No, jambafact.

NHS spending in 2009: 8.8% GDP
NHS spending in 2015: 6.6% GDP

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2016/01/how-does-nhs-spending-compare-health-spending-internationally

Ransos, I am sure that you have checked trends in the denominator and numerator in those figures?

@ransos we don’t spend nearly enough on Healthcare, see the other thread. Our gap comes from low spending on private health care. Our (unique) approach does not integrate state and private well at all.

Newsnight, aside from Baroness Shami having gone Full Politician (Must not answer question. Must not answer question) this backdrop amused the hell out of me

Interview for those who missed it

My favourite graphic, get used to it as I’ll be posting it everytime people mention income inequality (better now than under 13 years of Labour)

Supposedly it was Diane Abbott who pursueded Corbyn to change his stance on immigration despite the speech and policy having been agreed as part of the re-launch

Baroness Shami having gone Full Politician (Must not answer question. Must not answer question)

Just the other day you were criticising Corbyn for having answered a question instead of dodging. Hypocrite.

The press hate him its a disgrace the way he is portrayed

Chap’ s a pillock.

My favourite graphic, get used to it as I’ll be posting it everytime people mention income inequality

What’s scary is that, if you are to be believed (hahahaha!!) you are in a position of making decisions on the basis of analysing information. And yet you show almost no ability to do that. For example, your “favourite graphic” does not demonstrate what you imagine it demonstrates. You need to look deeper, e.g.

Now – do you remember something that happened in 2008 that might have affected very rich peoples’ incomes?

So, Diane persuaded Jezza to change position, did she?

🙂

🙂

Buggar wish I’d thought of that double entendre. Damn it. Damn it. Did think of another though.

DrJ well call me stupid but your graph shows income inequality has fallen, err wasn’t that my point. Yup many finance jobs have gone and many (esp in banks) are paying 20-30% of what they where before. That’s reducing inequality. The biggest driver in wealth (vs income) inequality is house prices in the South East esp London. As I posted before my daughter rented a room from a lovely old couple, retired solicitors (relatively modest jobs) and grand parents of her good friend who’d bought a house near Hampstead Heath in the 1960’s now worth £4m. Is that “disgusting inequality” ?

Corbyn is a perfect example, London property plus a £1.6m pension as a result of his Westminster based job.

DrJ well call me stupid but your graph shows income inequality has fallen, err wasn’t that my point.

Oh yes. The financial crisis was cunningly engineered by Cameron as a means to reduce inequality. Suddenly it all makes sense.

We didn’t claim the Tories had been solely responsible for reducing it did we ? They’ve done their bit and most certainly are not guilty of Corbyn’s charge of “creating disgusting levels of inequality in this country” – the problem is he is an old time campaigner who’s record and brain are well and truely stuck in the anti-Thatcher era

That’s our point. Factually income inequality has not risen under the Tories. Labour will rant on about wealth inequality instead. That’s due to South East house prices which in turn is due to the success of London based aervices (eg financial, advertising, consulting) jobs whuch are available to all inc my colleagues from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and the North of England for example

Dr, careful, of the two slopes yours is the slippier!

Enlighten us on your thoughts TMH ? DrJ’s slope is vertical

The Tories recent tax policies have helped too. The more they raise the tax free allowance (worth nothing to those on £125k) and cut pension tax relief and pot sizes and raise the minimum wage the more it helps reduce the gap

We didn’t claim the Tories had been solely responsible for reducing it did we ?

No. But your favourite graphic shows the beginnings of PM terms, and not the more significant event which was the financial crisis. So you changed tactic by lying by omission this time around. Not sure if that counts as progress, tbh.

Dr, careful, of the two slopes yours is the slippier!

The cracked pitcher goes farthest to the well!

The tagging on the graphic is a direct responce by the BBC to the Labour charge that income inequality had got worse under the Tories. I am just using it for the same purpose.

is that the same BBC you’re always claiming is biased against the Tories?

The tagging on the graphic is a direct response by the BBC to the Labour charge that income inequality had got worse under the Tories. I am just using it for the same purpose.

Don’t forget that the BBC also stated that the numbers for the upper income levels couldn’t be relied upon. (Those asked either misrepresent their income or don’t respond). Lies, damned lies and statistics springs to mind.

I helpfully quoted the relevant section and gave a source a page back.

Jambas, the facts speak for themselves. The narrative on both income and wealthy inequality is flawed. By the looks of things, Dr is letting the desire to argue with you cloud his judgement here. He is not alone, as you mention the subject of this thread makes the same mistake.

Sandwich a perfect example then of why we should have real figures from the Government. I went back 10 pages and could not find your link btw

I am OK with Labour campaigning on income inequality but they should not make these wild and false claims about the Tories. Improve inequality by raising the tax free allowance and/or the minimum wage – do it faster than the Tories are doing. Corbyn’s rhetoric is all about avarice and taking money away from those who in his view are undeserving. Plus some good old Marxist ranting.

Onwards to victory comrades, just not our victory[/url]

A swing of 40% to the Lib Dems in Sunderland last night. There was a time, a couple of years ago, that you could pin a red rosette to a turd and it would get elected in Sunderland – now they are getting 25% of the vote.

Expect emergency jam making from team Jezza today.

😀

A good article in yesterday’s guardian by that renowned right winger Suzanne Moore, pointing out that clinging on as ‘leader’, at all costs, while the Labour Party’s polling remains in complete free fall is just selfish egomania!

An interesting article, but doesn’t populism require a certain amount of popularity ?

This is painful to watch. Labour now dwells in a kind of limbo. Nothing can move forward until he goes, and he will only go in an electoral wipe out. This is the ultimate selfishness from someone who we are told by his groupies is some kind of saint.

Yep. The only problem that I see with this is that the conservatives need a better opposition to bring out the best in them. At the moment they are like Man U standing on the pitch watching the the opposing pub team stand around trying to lick their own elbows – they don’t need to try and at some point they might just not bother trying anymore. A good government requires a good opposition to hold them to account and ask difficult questions.

Unfortunately, you can see whats going to happen next. Labour will be reduced to third or fourth place in the Copeland by-election, a seat that they’ve held since the dawn of time. As a reaction to this, Corbyn and his tiny circle of supporters within the parliamentary party will keep digging, and retreat yet further into their irrelevant, clueless lefty bunker.

clinging on as ‘leader’, at all costs, while the Labour Party’s polling remains in complete free fall is just selfish egomania!

It does not say to the Labour MP’s that not supporting your leader is what is the cause of this and it encourages them to ognore the party and to continue to let it be in free fall because they oppoe the membership

s a reaction to this, Corbyn and his tiny circle of supporters within the parliamentary party

It such a shame the membership support him and the PLP think they can ignore them and they are what really matters. They do there best to ruin the party and then blame him for it

Has militant done this to Blair i can only imagine the reaction

he wont the election twice support him or join another party but dont constantly undermine him and then blame him for the dire electoral consequences of a divided party.

Morning Comrade. We’ve missed you……

😆

So… seriously mate… your opinions on the ‘re-brand’? A triumph? A clear message those pesky traitors/blairites/closet tories should get behind, and sell to voters on the doorstep?

And how do you think that Labour is going to do in the upcoming Copeland by-election? Think Jeremy’s message is going to play well in a working class constituency where the major employers are the nuclear industry?

no I think the party is screwed but my point remains that the PLP are trying to ignore the party[ and now the leader essentially] and the ones doing the most damage to the party whilst syaing its all his fault

You cannot ignore the party memberships wishes – its a democracy and you list so suck it up and do your best rather than destroy the party to prove you were right- whilst blaming him for this.

There are no winners here but what the PLP is doing ensures disaster and compromise seems somewhat unlikely

as I said in the vote i dont much rate corbyn but i despise the way the PLP think they can overrule the party.

I am sure loyal labour supporters like yourself have done all you can to make sure we lose there so you can blame corbyn for it- tirelessly working to ensure defeat rather than victory but its all his fault eh
I imagine you will successfully shoot the party in the foot and not take responsibility for it

as i said no winners here except Tories

footonthemountains – Member
The press hate him its a disgrace the way he is portrayed

As in… Jeremy says some things that are stupid and is reported as saying some things that are stupid?

I suppose that boils down to what you mean when you refer to ‘The Party’? Those who you maintain are apparently being ignored? You seem to think that these are lifelong labour members with firmly held beliefs, who have been out there campaigning for a labour victory?

With the greatest of respect fella, this is a hopelessly naive point of view. This “Party’ you so hopelessly romanticise, who’s views must be honoured above all else are in fact….

Ernie-iphone by bin lid[/url], on Flickr

Thats why the PLP has just given up, and is just keeping quiet. Because they know that theres nothing they can do. As the party has been successfully colonised, and this will only change once they’ve ushered in electoral armageddon, and maybe not even then. Eds gift of a new internal party democracy has been weaponised by the hard left, and some naive idiots, and turned against the party itself. Thats all thats happened. Not some sudden thirst for lefty nonsense in the general population. As labours present polling clearly demonstrates.

I have quite a bit to do with the local Labour Party councillors (I design their comms stuff for them) and they all tell me the same thing. These influx of ‘members’ have never been seen. They don’t go to meetings. They don’t campaign. they’re not active in any way. All they’ve done is join, then voted for Jeremy. Thats it. Full stop. End of story.

If you believe anything different, then I say that thats purely because you’d like to believe that. The reality is quite different.

Junkyard the problem is Corbyn undermines his own Shadow Cabinet, this week it was reported that the Shadow defence secretary visited troops abroad in eastern Europe and gave them his support, only for Corbyn to come out and say they shouldn’t be there and he had issues with Nato. If your boss regularly undermines you publicly in any walk of life then things aren’t ever going to end well.

Tristram Hunt has resigned (its weird he always struck me as a tory anyway)

by-elections-a-go-go

And another one bites the dust….

Labour’s Tristram Hunt quitting as MP to head V&A Museum

Somewhat predictably. There’s bound to be a mass exodus of MP’s who are just tired of banging their head against a brick wall, faced with the impossible task of following a clueless leader into political oblivion

Thats another by-election for Labour to lose, and Theresa increases here majority again. For her, Jeremy truly is the gift that just keeps giving

Another talented front bench Labour MP goes. Being in perpetual opposition is soul destroying as you can achieve nothing. As a back bench MP rather than shadow cabinet member money becomes more of an issue too with many more attractive jobs available outside. With the deselection purge being driven by the leadership it’s no surprise people are making the sensible choice of standing down.

Hilary Benn next ? Corbyn has said he will not “interfere” in the deselection campaign.