I've just lost my odlest, bestest, riding buddy to…..

Don’t hate ebikes. I’m sure there will be one in my future somewhere.

Having said that in my view it isn’t the same sport/pastime/hobby, whatever you want to call it, as riding a normal bike. It’s a different activity entirely.

Most posters seem to be ignoring the anti-social aspect to the OP, which was that his mate is an antisocial git.

You need to be honest with him, and soon. He’ll start using the excuse “oooh, I won’t be able to keep up with you without my e-bike now” though of course “well I’ll wait for you because what sort of mate would ride off without his mates…..”

I can only see the e-bikes getting more powerful

They can’t. There’s a law to stop that.

Not read the whole thread, but the issue here isn’t with the OP’s mate’s bike, it’s with the OP’s mate.

You should explain to him that it’s ruining the rides for you and is antisocial. Assuming he still has a normal bike that is.

well I’ll wait for you because what sort of mate would ride off without his mates….

Well yes. I’m no whippet but I’m fast enough that I could leave some people behind on climbs, but if I’m out on a social ride I don’t, because they are *social* rides – that’s the point.

For people with some kind of disability

Agreed!

for people commuting long distances (negating the need for a car)

Agreed, would also suggest for people using a bike for majority/all personal transport/utility (what a concept!?) medium to long distance in hilly rural areas. For me to avoid the A39 (and you do want to avoid that) I either have to tackle ten V-shaped river valleys over 15 miles or else take a wide loop Eastwards. Either way this is another reason why everyone drives to work hereabouts and why I am horribly wedded to the car – forced into using my regular bike simply for leisure.

on cargo bikes or people towing

Agreed, so there’s quite a few people for whom an E-assist bike would make enormous sense as part of a cycling life, for transport, leisure or both?

IMO, it is ultimately cheating, against the spirit of riding. i see those with ebikes as having capitulated… as weaker, lesser beings not worthy of my pump or patches.

Oh…

Let’s just call them laZebikes

They can’t. There’s a law to stop that.

The OP’s mate seems to be riding one that’s twice the legal limit.

He could have got it wrong of course, but the OP usually comes across as a huge geek (no insult intended) so I’m inclined to suspect that figure is accurate.

Anyway, I agree with the comments that it’s a personal issue best resolved with a man-to-man chat. Though I suspect the OP may need to get over the ebike prejudice displayed in his later comments.

Personally I’ve done a full 180 on them, totally respect anyone’s right to ride a legal ebike on the trails. Though if any of my healthy pals do (for normal recreational riding), the piss will be ripped mercilessly.

reading this with interest…

When i ride with my mates, i’m the fat lad at the back who can’t keep up. Any ride with that lot is essentially a ride on my own – to the point where strava often doesn’t recognise that we were on the same ride… So i’ve started riding on my own a lot more.

am i the slow old git who needs an e-bike?

LaZebikes…..I like that.

am i the slow old git who needs an e-bike?

sounds like 🙂

bugger.

Has there ever been a more pointless argument on here? Some people like e-bikes, some don’t. Choose your priorities, then decide what you want to ride and who you want to ride with. Simple.

Let’s just call them laZebikes

Could be a new brand? Either sounds very attractive for Wayne/etta or totally embarrasing for those who would otherwise use cars for 100% of actual transport/utility including carrying their bikes to where they start pedalling 😉

Has there ever been a more pointless argument on here?

Absotively.

Choose your priorities, then decide what you want to ride and who you want to ride with. Simple.

OP, have you chosen?

As Norville Barnes said in The Hudsucker Proxy “…a battery powered model for the lazy or spastic.”

who would otherwise use cars 99% of journeys including carrying their bikes to where they start pedalling wink:

I’m not riding from Berks to Wales to start riding !

I was pretty anti ebike to start but would like to try one. With 3 young kids when I have an hour on two spare I’m often inclined to grab the road bike to get some miles in. With one of these heading off road for the same amount of time is much more appealing. I seem to recall Steve “solid 6 foot” Jones writing that you come back equally rinsed but you’ve been further and faster and even enjoyed the climbs. Sounds like a win to me. I wouldn’t use one to ride with mates or for doing jumps and skids in the woods though and wouldn’t have one as my only MTB for as long as I’m able. Move with the times you Luddites, you can’t stop progress!

Looking at the Turbo Levo stats Specialized say it has a 250W motor giving 530W of power, I guess they combine the motor with average peak rider output? Dunno but maybe that is what the OP is referring to?

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/turbo/turbo-levo-fsr

am i the slow old git who needs an e-bike?

Or a fat knacker that needs to get fitter?

I thought the reason most of chose this ‘sport’ was for the fitness and excitement in equal measures.

No, not interested in the fitness aspect. If there was an uplift on every climb I would be happy. I only ride a bike for fun.

My gut feeling about ebikes which I can’t seem to shift is that they’ll be owned by the, uh, portly weekend warrior that currently minces round trail centres on a Saturday (insert Audi/Santa Cruz jibe here) and brags about it at work on Monday. At least they’re getting out and improving their fitness though – except that part of the activity will be lost when they all migrate to ebikes. In the same way, I don’t feel a bond with the Enduro Motorbikers that come razzing past in parts of the Peak. Also, I just don’t really see it attracting new people to the sport.

I’m aware that statement makes me sound like a judgemental tosser so don’t bother pointing that out 😉

uh, portly weekend warrior that currently minces round trail centres on a Saturday (insert Audi/Santa Cruz jibe here) and brags about it at work on Monday

How thin or fast do you have to be to get out of that catagory ?

chakaping – Member
Personally I’ve done a full 180 on them, totally respect anyone’s right to ride a legal ebike on the trails.

Yeah I’m heading that way too, saw a guy with one at Glentress last weekend and didn’t even shout abuse at him! Also brought up the subject with the Mrs earlier, she hates ‘holding everyone back’ and ‘getting in the way’ (quoted as it’s only her that ever sees a problem). Pointed out that an e-bike could potentially let her get further faster and open up some new routes to her that previously she would’ve felt were beyond her – suddenly she’s a lot more onboard with them!

I thought the reason most of chose this ‘sport’ was for the fitness and excitement in equal measures.

If the rider is still putting in a reasonable amount of effort, they are still exercising.

Wouldn’t like to suddenly find myself approaching some hike-a-bike with one though 😯

OP, tell yr mate that you’ve taken up audax/road cycling and would love him to join in, get a few cheap road bikes, enjoy a few country lane 50 mile loops, set a few personal records side-by-side and stop for sarnies at pubs.

And then one weekend turn up on:

Leave the bar tab for him to pick up when he finally arrives at the pub about the same time you’re nearly home. Possibly.

Superficial – Member

My gut feeling about ebikes which I can’t seem to shift is that they’ll be owned by the, uh, portly weekend warrior that currently minces round trail centres on a Saturday (insert Audi/Santa Cruz jibe here) and brags about it at work on Monday. At least they’re getting out and improving their fitness though – except that part of the activity will be lost when they all migrate to ebikes.

Out of curiosity, have you ever done an uplift? I’m more hammered after a day of runs at fort william than I am after a day pedalling up. That’s an extreme, but bike exercise isn’t just about spinning the wheels- or, doesn’t have to be, at least, it’s possible to roll down hills like a sack of spuds thrown over the top tube but that’s a whole different thing. And hefting around a 40lb e-bike to get it to shift on the descents is going to be harder work sometimes, and there’ll likely be more of them. Not to mention getting it onto the roof of your audi.

And o’course, it’s not like they just hover to the top, they’re (mostly) pedal assist- so you’re still putting in effort. So think about it as if you had a sudden massive increase in leg strength and fitness- do you arrive at the end of your ride totally rested? Nah, you ride further and faster and still end up ****ed. If you’re riding in a group it’s easier but if you’re solo you’ll just end up spending proportionally less time grinding up fire roads and more time having fun. (and if you’re too fit and fast for your group you’ll probably get fed up or annoy them)

Too heavy and too expensive for me but I ride despite the fitness benefits, I get fitter only so I can ride more.

To clarify, i don’t hate ebikes. What i am highlighting is that they are potentially bringing a large social issue with them to the MTB scene. I suspect, soon, rides will be split into Ebike rides and normal bike rides. Just like you wouldn’t turn up to a XC motorbike trail ride on a mountain bike, you really can’t mix normal MTBs and Ebikes, when each is ridden by a physically able rider.

maxtorque – Member

Just like you wouldn’t turn up to a XC motorbike trail ride on a mountain bike, you really can’t mix normal MTBs and Ebikes, when each is ridden by a physically able rider.

You totally can, though- I’ve done it and seen loads of other people doing it. It’s totally an attitude thing, just like different fitness levels don’t have to mean that you burn your way to the top of the hill then wait an hour

(tbf, the effect of the speed difference between me and my mate peter, is probably not so different to the speed difference between me and a normal e-bike, I go at less than half my normal speed when we ride together but that just gives me extra time for eating haribo and talking pish)

I could argue the toss all day on here about ebikes (I’m very much pro them, for anyone who wants to ride one, and it’s perfectly possible to ride in a normal group with one, if you’re not a tosser)

but i think most people seem to forget that the power assist is variable – yes, riding everywhere on turbo mode is a laugh, but on the Bosch system the eco mode is only a 20% boost, hardly a massive difference when most riding groups will have a rider fitness range of more than 20% IME. If your ebiking buddies choose to be a dick, they’re just a dick – don’t blame their choice of bike on that,

And finally, can we just remember that mountain biking (unless you’re racing at a high level) is just for fun. it really really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things what someone else rides (assuming, as ever, we’re talking about non-chipped legal ebikes on UK trails).

Well yes. I’m no whippet but I’m fast enough that I could leave some people behind on climbs, but if I’m out on a social ride I don’t, because they are *social* rides – that’s the point.

Quite 🙂 Oh yes, we’ll race each other to some arbitrary gate (while not putting in as much effort that it’s obvious that we’re trying, but that’s part of the game) but then hold the gate open for each other and stop for some gassing. But that doesn’t sound like the OP’s mate.

Out of curiosity, have you ever done an uplift? I’m more hammered after a day of runs at fort william than I am after a day pedalling up. That’s an extreme, but bike exercise isn’t just about spinning the wheels

Yeah I’ve done plenty of uplifts which I suppose might come across as hypocrisy, and I completely agree about non-pedalling exercise. Snowboarding all day (with lifts, no hiking) destroys me sometimes. But I can’t get over my gut feeling in this. Riding an ebike all day until you collapse whilst covering twice as much ground as a normal mountain bike sounds great. I bet that’s not what they’re used for, though.

How can you race your mates when everyone is (variably) assisted?

BTW my (ex)mate is a REAL speed demon, he just likes going as fast as possible at all times. When we both leg powered it was pretty evens, but the “Motorbike” he now rides is an insurmountable advantage.

Thing is, if i asked him to slow down, and ride at my pace, i know i’d be ruining his ride, so i won’t be doing that……

Does this allow him to gap jump to school kids uphill now?

We manage to have excellent group rides with a big group of very varied uphill fitness and downhill skills. I don’t think riding an e-bike would change things at all as long as you have the right mindset (if you’re competing up the climbs rather than sitting quietly mid-pack, then frankly you’re a ****).

Most days I ride an extended commute on the MTB to get some fun descents in – not a lot of mileage but the climbing adds up. An e-bike would allow more descending per week and even let me do some more organised training (an e-bike with a power meter would be great – you could have the extra work of hauling that extra weight on climbs on training rides and then be able to go faster on recovery rides with motor assist).

My heart prefers the purity of solely pedal power but my head knows electrickery would be good. It’ll only get better too!

Schweiz – Member
Oh well, could be worse. You’ve lost a friend, but think of him; he’s lost his dignity.

Brilliant love it and so glad to see the thoughts of so many like minded people 🙂

I’ll be honest. The whole E-Bike craze has gotten the best of me so i’m selling all the bikes and taking up a new sport

E-Jogging……can’t find anyone to coming running with me though 🙁

[/url]segway by boltonjon[/url], on Flickr[/img]

mrhoppy
Does this allow him to gap jump to school kids uphill now?

Yup, you’ll find groups of 9 year olds huddled trembling in the woods, crying, and whispering to each other about the day the “child slayer” on his evil green machine brought death and destruction…… ;-

Greetings from across the pond.

IMO E-bikes are going to shaft a lot of access stuff up here in the land of guns, guts and rabid hikers.

There are no real rights of way over here, and most trial access is subject to negotiation and politics. Anything designated a wilderness area has an automatic bike ban. Hundreds of miles have been lost in the last few years. OK, so some trial center like stuff has also been built (I’m lucky enough to live near a couple of them), but it’s not the same as epic wilderness rides. While I’m not wholly against them, I do see e-bikes as a threat to further access to the back-country.

Imagine if the increase in e-bike traffic, and hence more conflict between user groups were to affect the situation on the Surrey Hills, for instance?

With the increase in average speed and numbers, combined with human nature, you are really going to have to amp up education and maybe add patrolling in areas where access is not guaranteed by statute. Are the e-bike community going to do this?

Just my 2cent’s worth (about GBP 1.50 now).

I ride mine regularly with a group of traditional bikes, just ride at the back and ride it as a normal bike, with the odd tap of Eco to power up the gearbox to make up for the weight gearing deficit. ( typically the front sprocket is equivalent to a 38 tooth on a traditional bike)
Still a complete ignorance of how they work, the effort for me is the same it’s the output that’s different.
Just a bike with options not just the default tedious setting on the up hills.

I believe us ebikes are quite different to uk ebikes re speed and power output, 1000w in some states with throttles? hence most pinkbikers getting so pissy about them bring low powered motorcycles rather than pedal bikes.

I’m borderline over letting bicycles into the much of the country side so powered bikes are a definite no, no.

As transport they look brilliant but not in places people go to relax and get away from nobheads being nobheads.

I’m amazed how many people have bought these things. If your are incapable of riding up a hill because of age or physical issues fine. But its not what I regard as being a mtb rider otherwise….I’m 67 and intend using my body as a means of propelling my bike!

maxlite – Member
I’m amazed how many people have bought these things. If your are incapable of riding up a hill because of age or physical issues fine. But its not what I regard as being a mtb rider otherwise….I’m 67 and intend using my body as a means of propelling my bike!

Pretty much how I feel, I’m only 64 though.