I've broken 4 frames in 13 months. Recommend me a 29er hardtail.

Have you considered something burlier designed for unrelenting military duty?

It lasted less than a week.

I think I commuted on it for two days to test ride the Rohloff, then took it to MM to use as a spare bike.
While checking the bike over and fitting the number boar don Saturday morning I found it had cracked through the new weld.
I don’t know whether it’s worth adding some more bigger gussets or just writing off the Gary Fisher as a total loss.

Meanwhile, I’ve been in touch with Lynskey, trying, justifiably I think, to blag one of their titanium seat posts.

Hi
I bought a Ridgeline 29 SL, frame number 8621, from ChainReactionCycles in the UK in June 2010.
I sent it back a week or so ago as it had two cracks at the seat tube/top tube junction.

I see from your website that the Ridgeline now takes a 27.2mm seat post. Looking at various mountain bike forums, it seems your frames haven’t got a very good reputation for long term reliability, I take it this is a way of strengthening the frame while forcing the use of a more flexible seat post.

I bought a new Thomson seat post at the same time as the frame. Assuming you replace my frame with a new model, I will now need a different seat post.
Would you be prepared to include one of your titanium seat posts in with the new frame as a gesture of good will as I spent £1100 on a frame and have now been without it for two weeks as it cracked at less than a year old.

Graham

Thank you for purchasing on of our frames
I would check with Chain Reaction about the seatpost size
I would assume your frame would get the same seatpost sleeve that it currently so you can use the Thompson one you have

Best personal regards,

Jack Kopeski, Sales Account Manager

Hi Jack

I think you’ve misunderstood the problem.
I bought one of your frames from CRC last June and bought a 31.6mm Thomson seatpost to fit it at the same time.
11 months later, the frame cracked, so I sent it back to CRC.
I see from your website that the Ridgeline 29 now uses a 27.2mm seatpost.
Assming you replace my frame with a new model, this now means that I need a 27.2mm seatpost.
I just thought that as I spent £1100 on one of your frames and it lasted less than a year, meaning I was unable to ride it at Bristol Bike Fest and Mountain Mayhem, the biggest 12 and 24 hour races in the UK, you might feel some responsibility to helping me avoid the added expense of buying a new seatpost by including one for free in with the replacement frame.

Graham

Go Graham. Hope they do the right thing.

Loving the way everyone seems to think this is your fault for wanting to sit down. This fetish that MTBing has of making everything as light as possible is a real drag.

hopefully they will give you some advice of getting the right sized frame as well you mug

do you think a ti seatpost would help your next frame to not crack? i cracked a sir9 niner frame on the seat tube about where the end of the seatpost was. i was using a flexy ti seatpost (airborne) at the time. i suspect the seatpost may have played some part in causing the crack, but i am no expert.

timc, http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/mountain/frames/trail/ridgeline-29-sl.html
Click on Fit Chart.
I’m 6’1″ and I bought a large. Which one do you think I should have bought instead ?

I did enjoy the Lynskey frames, but is it worth the hassle? I seriously can’t see that Cannondale being hugely more solid in that area.

Cheapy Scandal set me back £124 on ebay and I’d be seriously hard pressed to tell the difference. Note the saddle in orbit, slightly masked by the bag.

Is that a 410mm Thomson? Even if that wasn’t the issue, having a longer seatpost will spread the load a bit.

Not hugely likely, but there’s a couple of Specialised ones going cheap at Bikescene.

Edit: Oh and it’s probably worth noting, I’ve killed a Zaskar Carbon Team frame at that exact same spot you broke yours. 🙂 I would say I’ve given up on carbon, but I like the look of the Lurcher and the Scott Scale Pro 29 🙁

Read through all this thread. You certainly seem to fall outside the demographics I imagine most bike companies design for, which is clearly a bit of a PITA.

I think if I were in your position, to solve this problem long term I’d be having a chat with Curtis, telling him exactly what problems I’d been having, showing this thread, and going for a custom T45 build designed around my needs.

Your fairly unusual requirements from a frame mean you’re one of those rare STWers that really can justify a custom built frame :o)

Sorry to hear you’ve been having such bad luck with it all, anyway.

Update on the email exchange.

Although I bought both the frame and the seatpost from CRC, as I understand UK consumer law, they are only obliged to replace the faulty item, which means I now need to buy another seatpost as the design of the frame appears to have changed.
That’s why I contacted you directly.
At one point I was thinking about buying another Lynskey frame as I have a Rohloff and a single speed bike. It’s only when I did a bit of searching for second hand Lynskey frames that I realised just how many of them have cracked.
My frame on STW forum.
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ive-broken-4-frames-in-13-months-recommend-me-a-29er-hardtail
Two warranty repaired Lynskeys for sale on STW forum
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lynskey-ridgeline-29er-frame-xl
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-lot-of-bits-need-to-get-some-money-in-my-paypal-account-fast

I was hoping you might like the opportunity to salvage some of your companies reputation and help out a customer by providing me with a free seatpost.

Graham

Again have you contacted CRC to see if you will need a new seatpost?

Best personal regards,

This is the original email from CRC.

Hi Graham,

We are emailing to let you know that we have received the Lynskey frame that you returned to us. We have emailed photos to our Lynskey supplier so as they can advise us on what action to take. As soon as they get back to us we will let you know.

We hope this is OK.

Kind regards,

Shauna

As CRC appeared to be waiting for Lynskey to tell them what to do, rather than simply replacing the frame themselves, I thought I’d be better off going straight to Lynskey myself to see if they would sort out the seatpost problem.
It looks like that isn’t going to work, so as Lynskey suggested, I have now emailed CRC.

Hi Shauna

I see from both the CRC and Lynskey websites that the Ridgeline 29 now takes a 27.2mm seatpost.
The frame that I have returned takes a 31.6mm seatpost.
Assuming that Lynskey replace, rather than repair, the frame, I will need a new seatpost.
I emailed Lynskey direct to ask them if they would include one of their titanium seatposts in with the new frame to save me from having to buy one.
They don’t seem all that interested in helping and simply told me to take it up with CRC.
So, please will you answer the following questions.

Will I be getting a new frame or will my frame be repaired ?
Your website shows the Large size as due in stock on 4/7/11. If I’m getting a new one, is that when it will be sent out ?
Will you supply me with a Thomson 27.2mm seatpost free of charge as I have paid £1100 for a frame which lasted only 11 months, paid another £30 to post it back to you, missed being able to ride it at Bristol Bike Fest and Mountain Mayhem and now it looks like it’s going to be another week before I get it replaced.
I can send you the old Thomson 31.6mm seatpost back if you want. It’s no good to me now.

Graham

I’m looking around for a second hand 29er frame now.
I’ve seen a couple of Lynskeys, but with the lifetime warranty only being valid for the original owner, a second hand Lynskey is worth whatever the scrap value of 3.5lbs of titanium is.

I like the idea of a new Nicolai Argon. Simon never took up my suggestion of a courtesy bike though, which doesn’t inspire confidence. They’re quoting 7 weeks delivery as well, so that means when it breaks, and it will break, I’ll be without a £1200 frame for 7 weeks.

timc you are a muppet! there is no more to say on the matter.

Graham, jeesus what a nightmare. just read the whole thread. Good luck with the Lynksey/CRC nightmare.

From friends who ride a bit like you i’d look into either Nicolai or Yeti even?

I’ve broken almost every non Nicolai frame I’ve owned. There was a large Argon FR in the for sale recently… don’t let the FR tag put you off, angles are not radical by it will be strong.

If you buy a Chumba hx2 and it breaks I’ll either replace it, or give you a refund. I don’t think you will break it though.

just a quick question.. I haven’t read through the entirity of the thread thoroughly so please forgive me if the question has already been raised..

That lynskey frame is sold as an out and out cross country race machine isn’t it..?
If you’re doing a lot of hard miles weekly should you perhaps be looking at something a little more substantial and workhorse-like..?

“Loving the way everyone seems to think this is your fault for wanting to sit down.”
Since all this started, I have been thinking more about how I ride and sort of watching myself to see what I do.
I almost always sit down to pedal. I like covering long distances, rather than doing technical stuff, so in that respect, I ride like a roadie. I’ll just set a comfortable cadence and slog away in the seat and only stand for short sharp climbs.
I always stand when freewheeling. I tried deliberately sitting while freewheeling and it just feels wrong.
Most trails are a mixture of pedalling and freewheeling, so if it’s a grassy field,I’ll sit down and pedal all the way. If it’s a single track through the woods, I’ll sit and pedal where I can, stand up and freewheel over the roots and rocks, then sit down and pedal again.

“do you think a ti seatpost would help your next frame to not crack?”
That’s something else I wondered. You’d think that a flexi post would help save the frame, but I’m not so sure. As it flexis at the point where it exits the seat tube, it would concentrate the load at that point.

“You certainly seem to fall outside the demographics I imagine most bike companies design for”
I think that is the problem. At 95kg and 600 – 700km a month, I’m probably well outside the expected usage range of most bikes.

That Argon that’s been in the classifieds is a 26er. 🙁 Otherwise, at £400, I’d have bought it by now.

“If you buy a Chumba hx2 and it breaks I’ll either replace it, or give you a refund.”
Isn’t that what you’d be obliged to do under the Sale Of Goods act anyway. 😉
It’s not so much the replacement, as the time it takes to get it replaced.
I noticed the crack in the Lynskey on the day of Erlestoke 12.
Supposing I had had a Chumba and emailed you pictures of the crack on Sunday night, would you have got a replacement frame to me in time to build it up and race it at Bristol the following weekend ?

“That lynskey frame is sold as an out and out cross country race machine isn’t it..?”
http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/mountain/frames.html

COMPETITIVE CROSS-COUNTRY…PRO29 VF PRO29 SL PRO29 Lefty SL PRO26
TRAIL…Ridgeline-29 VF Ridgeline-29 SL M240…These bikes are perfect for all mountain riding and endurance events.

One good thing about the Nicolai is that the 7 week wait makes it sound like they build the frames to order.
The XL Argon has got a thicker walled seat tube and the FR has got extra gussets at the seat tube/top tube junction.
I wonder if they’d build some sort reinforced Argon/Argon FR hybrid for me in Large as a no cost option if it meant they were less likely to get it back for warranty repairs.

I’ve been logging my bike mileage, although I only started at the beginning of this year.
http://www.bikejournal.com/profiles.asp?rname=VeganGraham
1200km on the Lynskey in the first 6 months this year, so if I guess at the same again for the last 6 months of last year, it lasted about 2500km.

The Kona I bought second hand, and which has got a shorter seat tube, is still going OK at 2100km.

Any of your broken frames been steel? Better fatigue characteristics of the material might help.

Toasty, thanks for the Specialized link.
I didn’t realise the Rockhopper and Stumpjumper had adjustable dropouts.
I’m currently down to one usable frame, the Kona Big Unit, for both racing and commuting.
If this one breaks, I’m in trouble.
It might be worth buying a Specialized frame for £200 or £300 as an emergency back up.

TJ, one steel, two aluminium, one titanium.

Supposing I had had a Chumba and emailed you pictures of the crack on Sunday night, would you have got a replacement frame to me in time to build it up and race it at Bristol the following weekend ?[\quote]

I would hope so! I always have a few of each size in stock so can turn frames around quickly.

That’s the sort of sales attitude I like. Why can’t Lynskey and Nicolai do that ?
I know it means the retailer has got to trust the customer that there is a genuine fault with the frame to send a new one out before receiving the old broken one.
Although, I’d be prepared to pay for a new frame if I got a refund once the old one was returned if it meant getting the new one by the next day.

As was suggested, you written to any companys yet offering your destructive services as a test rider?

That On One Lurcher looks nice, but I bet it’s going to need someone to test it! 😉

Or I’d take Si from Progressive up on his offer quickly…

I like the idea of being a test rider, but I would imagine they would want to do it under more controlled circumstances and with someone who’s got closer connections with the manufacturers.

One other thing I’ve thought of, is that if I buy a Nicolai, the Lynskey will become my commute bike.
Strange as it may seem, I do higher total mileage at a higher average speed commuting than I do racing & trailquesting combined.
If I killed it in 11 months racing, it’s not going to last 6 months commuting. 🙁

Nicolai will build almost anything you want.

A number of people on the Nicolai forum on mtbr have ‘hybrid’ bikes e.g Helius AM large rear triangles with medium front triangles for standover or extra sloping geometry but with upgraded downtubes and gussets for longer travel forks etc, lower BB’s for descending…

What Si is offering seems like good service. I can’t comment on the frames never having used or tried one.

Why not discuss requirements with a Nicolai dealer/Nicolai themselves.

That’s the sort of sales attitude I like. Why can’t ….. Nicolai do that ?

We can’t do it because all frames are built to order – there’s no way to ‘pull one off the shelf’ or quickly build another (without causing a delay for a load of other customers).

If you want that sort of service you either need a framebuilder local enough that you can take it round to be rewelded (ie in the UK) or a frame mass produced enough that there is stock around.

I don’t think you’re expectations are unrealistic – you *have* to sit to pedal for the sort of riding you’re doing – but you’re at the outer edge of the bellcurve these bikes are being designed for.

Your choice becomes disposable (good warranty/cheap/mass produced) or custom/repairable (expensive). There’s no doubt we, or someone else, could build you a bike that will last – there’s not something fundamentally unsound in the design of a hardtail – but you obviously need more reinforcement than most.

Whoever you get it from the only approach I can see is a combination of a thicker walled seat tube extending above the top tube, a brace, and a long, strong seat post (which is how we build an XL Nicolai anyway).

Click on Fit Chart.
I’m 6’1″ and I bought a large. Which one do you think I should have bought instead ?

Looking at the geometry, a different frame altogether, with a seat tube longer than 18.5in.

scotia – Member
timc you are a muppet! there is no more to say on the matter.

Not really, just taking a similar approach as OP did on illegal downloading! 🙄

messiah – Member
I’ve broken almost every non Nicolai frame I’ve owned. There was a large Argon FR in the for sale recently… don’t let the FR tag put you off, angles are not radical by it will be strong.

you wont break one of those, didnt find the ride very comfortable myself!

Update;
I went to my local bike shop on Friday 1st and ordered a large Chumba HX2.
I went back on Thursday 7th to see how things were progressing. (Progressing/Progressive Bikes, geddit ?)
He’d been unable to get through on the phone and could remember having similar trouble with a distributor a couple of years ago. He wasn’t sure, but he thought it was the same people.
I rode home and tried the number on the website, thinking maybe the LBS had an old number. I couldn’t get an answer either.
Having a promise of a replacement frame, if needed, within a week doesn’t mean much if no one answers the phone.
I went back to the LBS on Friday and cancelled the order.

I’ve more or less decided to get one of those £300 stumpy frames from BikeScene now, I’m just trying to decide whether to go for the 19″, which is closest to what I’m used to and what other manufacturers recommend for my height, or go for the safe option of a 21″.

Meanwhile, the emails continue…

Hi Jack.

I’ve been in touch with CRC and they have told me that they have returned the frame to you for repair.
Please can you answer a few questions for me.

1. Have you received my frame yet.
2. What date do you expect me to get it back ?
3. Will you be repairing or replacing it ?
4. What size seatpost will it need ?
5. I’m thinking of buying a Nicolai Argon belt drive Rohloff.
If I do, the Lynskey will become my commuter bike.
Strange as it may seem, I ride a greater distance at a higher average speed commuting than I do racing.
If you look at my log on BikeJournal http://www.bikejournal.com/profiles.asp?rname=VeganGraham you’ll see I only rode the Lynskey 1200km since I started recording my rides this year, which means it lasted about 2500km from new.
Once I start riding it every day, I doubt it will last 6 months.
Wouldn’t it be better for everyone if you arranged with CRC to give me a full cash refund and you keep the frame ?
That way, I haven’t paid £1100 for a frame that I can use for less than 11 months a year and you don’t have to spend the rest of my life constantly repairing it.

Graham

Graham

You will need to get your question answered through CRC
I do not have the answers your questions
They said it has been sent, it will be repair and ship back to them
You purchased the frame through CRC and they will ultimately have to help you with your frame questions

Jack

If you can’t answer my questions, wouldn’t it be common sense to find someone else who works there who can ?
I spent £1100 on a Lynskey frame and got only 11 month’s use out of it. I haven’t seen it for over a month. Don’t you, as Lynskey’s sales account manager, feel you have some responsibility to at least find out where it is right now and how long it’s going to take to get it back to me ?
Graham

As you can probably tell, I’m getting a bit fed up with his “We’ve got your money, now **** off” attitude.

From the Lynskey website; “These bikes are perfect for all mountain riding and endurance events.”
From wikipedia “All Mountain…these bikes are intended to be ridden on all-day rides involving steep climbs and steep descents…”
As anyone who’s ridden with me knows, I’m a two wheels on the ground at all times rider, I get off and walk the dodgy looking bits.
When I get the Lynskey back, I’ll be using it as my commuter and race bike, with the Stumpy as an emergency spare. That means I’ll be doing about 700km a month on it.
I’m tempted to have ago at “all mountain” riding just to see how long it takes to break again using it exactly as intended instead of just racing it at weekends.
Meanwhile, I’ve posted on their Facebook page. That’ll probably get deleted when they come in to work on Monday morning.

“…there’s no way to ‘pull one off the shelf’ or quickly build another…”
Yeah, I realise it must be difficult to hold spares of every frame in every size you make ready for immediate despatch as “courtesy frames”.
I was hoping maybe you’d have a few ex-demo bikes around to have something near enough the same if needed.
How does the custom build option work then ?
Supposing I said I want a Large Argon, but with the stronger seat tube of an XL Argon and the extra gusset on an Argon FR, could you do that as a no cost option ?
I’ve got my LBS making enquiries about getting me an Argon frame as there’s no dealer near me. Can he do that, or should I use the Order Generator on Nicolai’s web site ?
I’m still not sure that’s what I want to do though. Whether to buy one good expensive frame that should last a few years, or just keep looking for bargain mid range frames and always keep a spare in stock.

Is buying new with a “warranty” more hassle than its worth?

Scratch Lynksey of my shopping list for Ti frames after reading the OP’s experience.

I think that Jack at Lynskey is doing a very poor job with his communication skills. Who’d want to buy into the Lynskey brand with a potential like this, then to be faced with Jack… oh dear. 😥

I think the problem is that I’m dealing with a salesman.
Once he’s got his bonus for shifting X number of units per month, he’s got no further interest.
You’d think there would be someone there who could take the longer term view and realise that a 95kg rider riding 700 mostly off road km a month is outside the frame’s performance envelope and they’d be better off taking the one off hit of a full refund than forever repairing it.

Buy midrange and keep a spare.

lynskey sound like a nightmare that i will be avoiding.

Graham’s top tip for owners of broken Lynskey frames; email Don, not Jack. 😉
I got it back today, complete with FOC Thomson 27.2×410 seat post, new sliding drop outs for derailleurs and single speed, a new seat post clamp and new bottle cage bolts.

I think it’s a new top tube, unless they have reinforced the old one internally and polished the welds out.
That’s the original seat tube up to the weld, still with my Midland Trailquests sticker on it (did I mention I ride trailquests ?).
The top section is 95mm long and machined down from thicker walled tube to spigot inside the original tube by 15mm.

glad to see you finally got that sorted! hope this one lasts for you!

Fixed but damn its ugly !

Yeah, it looks like a very neat bodge to me.
It’s not a very good advert either. Everyone who looks at the frame from now on is going to ask “What’s that extra weld there ?”
Oh well, I’ll get it built up tomorrow and commute on it, then it’s SITS in less than two weeks.

Interesting read that!

Glad you got sorted and some shocking service from the sales guy at Lynksey. Your attitude to Si at Chumba leaves a little bit to be desired though…

Well glad you got the frame back, I doubt the repair could have been economic for the maker vs a new frame and TBH I think the weak point is now transferred to the position of the spigot weld – but credit to Lynskey for taking the time and effort to make the spigot join. Even though IMHO it’s wrong headed!

Will be looking for you at SITS.

Keep us (seat) posted.

http://www.aricycles.com/aricycles/ari_cycles.html

Mmmmm custom steel. I ride hard and got myself a hardcore hardtail.

Built for 120-140 mm forks.
83mm bb
150mm rear spacing
BMX downtube and true temper tubing of different sorts.

More pics:
http://terrythemessenger.pinkbike.com/album/Ari-29er/

Good choice Terry, Aris are lovely frames. If i was in the market for a steel custom he’d be on the difficult-choice shortlist.