Is it ok to use the word gay to mean something rubbish?

I wish folk would stop saying that the English Language is evolving. Its not, its eroding.

no honestly it is evolving. exactly the same as it has always done. there is a reason we dont talk like billy bunter and just william any more just as there is a reason we dont talk like chaucer anymore. any view on what is correct english is based on somethingcentricity (!!). your view on it just depends on which side of the generation gap you are on. we didnt have a standardised spelling or grammar system until comparatively recently.

Rubbish. Spelling & grammar are not given the same importance as “communicating”. It’s all just to make it easier.
Wen English is wrtn as txt spk, will that be evolushun?

Reminds me of this Fry & Laurie sketch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HcbOMqvK2M

“Just taking the ar$s bandit to the menders dear….”

Much of this confusion is based on the assumption that sticking your dinkle up another man’s poop-shute is somehow not wrong. Language evolves, get used to it.

Correct on both counts.

As previously established, evolution is not directional however.

Are you rejecting the assumption that homophobia is a bad thing? If so, it clearly follows that mixing “gay” and “rubbish” to produce a new use of the word “gay” which is explicitly homophobic in its origin makes sense. Your candour is to be applauded, the Moyles claim that the two uses are unrelated is pathetic.

Again though, would you take this attitude to, for example, describing South West Trains, Fred Goodwin, or Superstar disc pads as “****”, “****” or “gook”?

🙂

Much of this confusion is based on the assumption that sticking your dinkle up another man’s poop-shute is somehow not wrong. Language evolves, get used to it.

Is that all you think about? Could you prove your point please instead of just doing the OMGGAYSEXARRRGH routine?

Just very …. sad.

‘These pads are a bit ****’, has a certain ring to it though. Plus it’s probably got royal approval from Phil the greek 🙂

IanMunro – Member
‘These pads are a bit ****’, has a certain ring to it though. Plus it’s probably got royal approval from Phil the greek

But surely that would just mean that they’re freely available in corner shops and/or could stop a bus?

“****”, “****” or “gook”?

These are deliberatly offensive terms though, yes? Gay is a term that has been happily (sic) adopted by the gay community. I would say that using the term ‘gay’ to describe someone who is a bit wimpy would be more offensive that using it to describe a piece of kit that’s rubbish but I would still presume that neither are hugely malicious or offensive in the same way ‘****’ would be. It doesn’t even sound particularly nasty when you call someone gay.

As a straight, white, middle aged man I’m trying to think of similar phrases that describe me but can;t really. The closest I can come to is being described as ‘such a typical bloke’ because that infers that I’m a beer swilling, football watching sex maniac when in fact only one of those is true. It’s not offensive though even though I’d be mortified to be thought of as a football supporter.

Ian, indeed it has.

But pretending that it was a word which had suddenly “evolved” (as language does) from being a racist term of abuse applied to people who were quite, but not very, dark brown, to one which simply meant “rubbishy and no use” with no reference to its racist meaning and a purely coincidental connection to the fact we liked neither pakistanis nor superstar brake pads would require a degree of intellectual agility which I suspect is beyond me at any rate.

🙂

Samuri, that’s clearly right, but I think we end up arguing about how “gay” in its “evolved” sense is used. It isn’t just used to mean “rubbish”, but “rubbish in an effete and homosexual way” a lot of the time. Would you agree?

“The way he porpoised that section was totally gay” means, I suspect, much the same as “riding like a gay”. That seems to me to be a derogatory use which is clearly drawing from perjorative assumptions about gay people. The only thing separating that from the “****” example is that the “re-claiming” of the word “****” has not got terribly far. If you used the word “negro” or indeed “of african origin” instead of “****” you’d get to the same place, although it wouldn’t be as catchy.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am neither very gay nor particularly troubled on behalf of the gay community at the use of the word. I understand a lot of gay people do not find its evolved use remotely offensive. But the mental gymnastics that people go through to demonstrate that it is a legitimate use piss me off. I just don’t really believe they believe it.

🙂

Dunno, I’ve only ever heard the term used to describe things that don’t work very well in normal conversation.

I would expect I would be more likely to hear the phrase ‘ride like a girl’ in that example, which since I know some girls who are complete heroes on a bike could be equally offensive.

Perhaps there’s some underground movement that uses it in far nastier tones who have pictures of hitler on their walls, that’s a different matter altogether.

Urban Dictionary is interesting on this, especially as you get down through the millions of less favoured definitions.

What, though, do we mean when we say that Hora’s dog is a “gay dog”? (which is quite a common suggestion on here). I think we accept that Bingo works alright, as westies go, and I doubt we are seriosuly describing Bingo’s own sexual preferences.

🙂

i still think my clerks 2 video perfectly depicts the dangers (amusing dangers) of not thinking about the origin and possibly wider meanings of your use of language: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DxyAGzGxM

still, you cant taste racism.

m_p – that is a very funny clip.

That was the first thing that came to mind when I saw this thread Meikle Partans!
The term we use round our way for anything that’s a bit rubbish and not that great is “Lancastrian” 😈

eg,
“That paperclip bike is a bit Lancastrian!”
“Julian Clary is Lancastrian”

Exactly the same as using the gay term to mean rubbish…..only this way we offend more people. 😆

(TIC)

I clearly need to see Clerks. That is well funny.

🙂

Wen English is wrtn as txt spk, will that be evolushun?

Yes. Just as it was when signe became sign, sonne became sun and dowbte became doubt.
It’s not a crime, it’s what naturally happens to language.

That is fine, as long as the ability to convey meaning accurately to other people is not lost in the process. If in fact nuance and meaning is simply being given up because it is easier to reduce and simplify then that is not helping anyone. In particular, if what is actually happening is that in some schools teachers are accepting essays written in txt spk and in some schools they are not (and I guess Eton, Harrow and Winchester are examples of places where they are not, while Slough Comprehensive and Tower Hamlets School of Hard Knocks are places where perhaps they are) then the trendency is to produce some people who are expressing themselves accurately and easily and some people who are not. If that is right then it is optimistic to pretend that the ones who are not will not be at a disadvantage.

Adam as a very good point, I think we should use londoner instead to mean rubbish

(Phones Assassin to kill Juan)

The Sanity Assassin – Member
IanMunro – Member
‘These pads are a bit ****’, has a certain ring to it though. Plus it’s probably got royal approval from Phil the greek
But surely that would just mean that they’re freely available in corner shops and/or could stop a bus?

Because of course, ‘****’s’ don’t do owt else but run corner shops and be bus conductors… 🙄

(Waits for the ‘all Blacks are muggers’, ‘all Jews/Scots are tight’, etc…)

Before I first joined this forum, a couple of years ago, I would often lurk, as was sometimes quite apalled to read some pretty nasty ignorant and racist stuff. Often quite covert, but you could tell that there was ignorance, fear and hatred behind some comments. After joining, I would often challenge what i thought to be ignorant, prejudicial or bigotted views and opinions. I would have people having a pop, suggesting I was ‘PC gone mad’, or had a ‘chip on my shoulder’; all the usual.

But after a while, I noticed that such views would be challenged by others, more regularly. People like Grizzlygus, in particular, would often stand up to ignorance and prejudice expressed in posts.

As time has passed, STW is a place where I, as a non-white person, have felt a lot more comfortable. I did once recieve a very hateful and nasty anonymous email from someone, who may be on here now; I never knew even their STW persona. Basically saying that ‘**** like you should ‘know your place’, and not involve yourself with things that only true British people have a right to’. I put this down to one fecked-up individual, and never considered it to be any kind of refelection on STW mebers, or indeed mountain bikers, as a whole. And the anonymity of the email proved the cowardly nature of the sender. It din’t bother me that much. I’ve had worse screamed in my face.

But on here, as in life, you will experience attitudes and views which you feel to be wrong. It is your right and duty to challenge them.

I am glad that someone has come on here and been open about there sexuality. And offered their own opinions, as someone who might suffer prejudice and ignorance. About time, I say.

Why aren’t there more people on here, who are open about being Gay/Lesbian? Why don’t people feel that can be who they are, and still comfortable? I’d imagine there are probbly several STWers, who don’t feel confident enough to do that, due to the ignorant and prejudicial behaviour shown by some individuals on here.

I don’t know; I can’t speak for anyone else.

But I would like to see some attitudes change, and using a stupid, ignorant childish expression as ‘gay’, in a negative or derogatory context, disappear.

Personally, I’d rather have a pint with AdamW, than some people on here, as he seems to be intelligent, articulate, considerate and enlightened, and has expressed his opinions in a very admirable and respectful manner. Those are qualities that I like and respect, in others, and hope others see in me.

And I feel there are one or two people on here who need to go and have a look at themselves, and consider their own views and attitudes.

Like many people, I grew up ‘homophobic’, as that seemed to be the default position. Fortunately, my mum is enlightened and intelligent enough to try and educate me that people are people, regardless. And as a young adult, me and me mates used to go to Gay nightclubs, as the music was usually loads better, and you din’t feel that some Neanderthal thug was going to glass you, for spilling his bird, or looking at his pint or whatever. We felt a lot safer around a nice bunch of people who were just out to enjoy themselves. In all our trips, not once were any of us faced with aggression or violence. Most people were usually too off their heads on E, to want to fight you!

So, my experience of the expression ‘Gay’ is a very positive one. Which is why I can’t understand it being used in a negative context. To me it just means something happy and joyous.

Variety is the spice of life. S’what makes it worthwhile.

RudeBoy, I’ve actually been slightly heartened by a lot of posters saying that they’re uncomfortable with the use of the word “gay” to describe something as rubbish. But alongside that, there’s always the disappointment with those who defend it and say it’s evolution of the language or use (as one other poster said) “verbal gymnastics” to defend themselves.

And I congratulate AdamW for being so open too but in fairness, he sounds like he doesn’t really need or seek congratulations. I am proud to count two gay couples as good friends (not because they are gay, but because they’re nice people) and it’s great to socialise with them and see life from a different perspective. I wish I had more black and asian friends, it just hasn’t worked out that way.

Thanks folks for the kind words. I have found in the last few years that once people actually know someone that is gay they either change their views or generally show themselves up. Spouting crap in the pub is one thing but once someone knows that what they are spouting may actually be attacking someone they know they usually stop.

To those people who think that this is a storm in a teacup – please take a look at the tags associated with this thread. Some anonymous people have put fairly graphic tags up there. I added the ‘homophobia’ tag, will those people who added ‘brown star at night – shepherds delight’, ‘rear ending’ and ‘STW mincers’ stand up and be counted? If you’re being ironic then I’m sure you won’t mind being a ‘real’ man (I guess like me, having XY chromosomes!) and owning up and saying why. I won’t hold my breath though…!

While I admit that being gay does mean I do fancy men it doesn’t mean that my whole life revolves around sex. Some people can’t see further than that and as a result you see things like those tags. it is about love and companionship too, if not more so than just sex. In fact one of the ‘straightest’ men I know continually says he would love to be gay – shag your partner then sit down, have beers and talk about the footy!

Diversity is fab. It would be boring if we were all the same!

That is fine, as long as the ability to convey meaning accurately to other people is not lost in the process. If in fact nuance and meaning is simply being given up because it is easier to reduce and simplify then that is not helping anyone.

I think this is a very blinkered view on how something may change. Why should you imagine that somehow, the language is lessened because it’s form has changed. There are I’m sure, hugely creative aspects to the way that youngsters communicate and I think that this is to be encouraged not eliminated. To follow your thinking is to deny culture of its’ Cezannes or of its’ Acid House.

I disagree. The problem with kids using the term ‘gay’ to mean crap, undermines the use of the word to mean homosexual. So, is it ok then, that a Gay man is a crap man?

See the point here?

I’ve nowt against imaginative use of language. I just don’t believe this use of this particular word is productive, in engendering good relations and understanding between people of differing sexualities.

In the same way that using words such as ‘****’ or ‘****’.

Those terms are not used openly now, because of the ignorance, hate and fear associated with them.

I would like to see the term ‘gay’ used in a negative context, be discouraged, and ultimately curtailed. It’s insulting to men like AdamW.

And it’s use, by idiots like that useless lump Chris Moyles, merely seek to legitimise it, which I think is wrong.

Saying ‘oh, what’s your problem with people using it to describe something that’s crap’, is like saying ‘oh, why can’t I call you a ****/****; I don’t mean it in a negative way’. It’s missing the point.

Perhaps we should have a decision from the moderators about the use of gay as a derogatory term, possible warnings to the ones who use it wrongly, and as Adam w has been open and forthcoming in being gay, we should all show respect for his way of life and sexuality , who knows there may be other gay men and women, out there, and on this forum.

“Much of this confusion is based on the assumption that sticking your dinkle up another man’s poop-shute is somehow not wrong”.

What a load of crap, theres more to a relationship than just sex, especially expressed in such childish gutter language.

Oh and Adam w, im sure youll have quite a few peole willing to buy you a drink or challenge you to a race, if we ever meet up on a singletrack bike ride.

Hang on, we’re at cross purposes here. There seems to be 2 seperate themes to the thread. One which is debating if it’s ok to use the word gay, to mean crap. The other is debating if the way da yute dem are evolving the language is wrong.
My answer above was with regard to the latter. Hopefully my previous posts on this thread should lead you to believe that I’m not for the use of the word gay to mean crap. Or for that matter, the word jey to describe a style of riding.

Further to some of the comments above (particularly AdamW and RudeBoy) I would like to publicly apologise for any offence (either real or perceived) that either of my posts on this topic may have caused.

My only explanation (no excuses) is that they were both ill-conceived attempts at trolling, based entirely around stereotyping of the worst kind, and I regret posting them. If I had remembered about the ‘new’ emoticons then I would have included one on each post to hint at the ‘ironic nature’ in which they were meant.

Again, unreserved apologies to those who may have been offended.

BTW, none of the tags were posted by me. I don’t know what the purpose of tags are and have no interest in adding any.