dyslexia is fiction

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  • dyslexia is fiction
  • mudshark
    Member

    Is it?

    bbc news

    Seemd from this that 10% of the UK population have this problem which does surprise me.

    alexxx
    Member

    Some words I cant spell or pronounce to save my life, when I was younger I couldnt hear properly till the age of 6ish and had a lot of ear problems so I guess my learning was all from lip reading and pretty slow..

    That comes across as if im some sort of idiot… Im not and if I hadnt told anyone that noone would be none the wiser.

    Point is… spell checkers and allowing myself to process things helps.. Im not the kinda guy to go and label myself for a free lunch.

    Its probobly an easy cop out for some people, and others probobly really do struggle and need that extra time.. we are all different after all.

    That certainly is a pretty bold statement.

    uplink
    Member

    My mum who was a headmistress at a primary school always claimed that most kids diagnosed as dyslexic just needed different methods to trigger the pattern to learning that worked for them.
    Purely un-scientific, I know

    Really? DSM-IV might disagree but what do I know 🙂 Please don’t confuse people who have difficulty learning to read/write with dyslexics, its a very different and much more complex condition that not know which "to, too, two" to use.

    SSP

    owenfackrell
    Member

    It is always nice to know when one is a fictional satistic.
    I can read vey well but am still dislexic i have problems where i will get stuck on a word and end up having to re write intier paragraphs to say what i meen (normally badly as well).

    But the other things he says are complete common sense and not tainted with a big PC brush. To say that dyslexia is being used by schools as an excuse for poor results is probably true, as is the comparison with some 3rd world countries who apparently do not have the problem.

    We should listen to people like him, not to say that dyslexia doesn’t exist, but to stop banging on about it. If I had problems writing and understanding things when young and had been branded dyslexic I think that would have encouraged me to accept my inferior learning skills and subsequently this would have hindered me all throughout my education.

    tinsy
    Member

    Mysterymurdoch, you do have a point about the being branded or pigeonholed and then its an easy excuse not to try too hard, BUT, kids do need help with dyslexia and many other behavioral problems as well, without the branding and subsequent labeling this entails the child doesn’t get the help they need to succeed.

    An otherwise a bright articulate child can end up scrapped before they start.

    If I had problems writing and understanding things when young and had been branded dyslexic I think that would have encouraged me to accept my inferior learning skills and subsequently this would have hindered me all throughout my education.

    You are not branded dyslexic, you are diagnosed. Teachers can not diagnose you, only a qualified educational psychologist.

    As to inferior learning skills? No, different skills that don’t hinder you unless the education system is totally inflexible.

    SSP

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    It’s an interesting one, but I fear he has taken (or has been represented as taking) too much of a broad brush approach.

    Dyslexia is, as has been pointed out, so much more than an inability to spell or read words. Indeed, the definition of "word blindness" is probably useless is a significant number of cases of dyslexia.

    Take my Mrs, for example, who was sent by her PhD supervisor to see an educaitonal psychologist. She was 24 at the time, and had already completed her undergraduate and first postgrad degrees. After a number of visits, he concluded that she was in the dyslexia spectrum, not because she cannot spell or read properly, but because she has a fundamental issue with the way she processes and delivers informaiton. She knows the informaiton, usually very well. She understands the informaiton. But, when rpesenting it (particularly in writing) her thoughts become jumbled and broken. It makes sense to her, but is confusing to the person reading/listenting.

    So, to suggest it is a myth is to pick on a common understanding of one element of the spectrum, and to discreit it by attributing blame elsewhere. This does not exactly help those who are trying to learn and develop, but are struggling to do so in the current learning environment.

    Also, how does he explain the similar learning issues that are seen in other disorders, such as dyspraxia. Or is that a myth, too?

    mudshark
    Member

    I’m curious about getting longer for exams – seems fair but do they need/get longer when in work?

    xc-steve
    Member

    I’m apparently Dyslexic… well I am but I choose to never use the Dyslexia card, if you can’t spell a word I use a spell checker simple as, I’ve an apparent reading age of 12, yet I completed my Degree and now earn a healthy pay package as a result of said Degree.

    TBH most people who use the Dyslexia card are because their lazy arses, if you actually put effort in you can get results.

    The doctors diagnose you, but in the minds of other people their impression of you is that of someone with dyslexia, classmates, teachers etc. To me that would feel like branding.

    Of course children will respond better to different teaching methods, and I agree the current teaching methods are p155 poor in general as well as in specific circumstances like this. I don’t think schools should have lower results due to dyslexia; if they do then they are doing something wrong. The news article relates to a statement about schools inventing dyslexia – this statement infers that the "big problem known as dyslexia" has been invented, which is true. It is, however, being read as "the medical condition known as dyslexia" has been invented by journalists and others; this is wrong and not what the speaker intended.

    owenfackrell
    Member

    Mine is simmilar to OMITN wifes but i was 21 when diagnosed. At work i use my co-workers to check through what i have written (or even get i typed up for me) and generally get longer than you would in an exam anyway.

    xc-steve
    Member

    I know for my Degree I worked 100% harder than all my course mates yet got a poorer result, I find in Lectures or now in Meetings unless i’m paying 100% I’ll not take anything in.

    mudshark – Member

    I’m curious about getting longer for exams – seems fair but do they need/get longer when in work?

    Indeed that’s why I’ve never liked to play the card as in the real world no-one cares!

    much like the non negative marking scheme teachers are put under (no red pen and no crosses on their work), when kids are taught like this fair enough they don’t get any negativeness but in the real world you fail you get fired!

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    I’ve an apparent reading age of 12, yet I completed my Degree

    Maybe that’s because you’re a very clever 12 year old… 😀

    I think you have a point about over-reliance, but for many (especially those diagnosed later in life – as well as Mrs North, my best mate was given the same diagnosis when he was 30) it comes as a certain relief to make sense of why they couldn’t "get" things in the same way as others.

    Mrs North refused to have it taken into account for her PhD (either for the thesis or viva), and also refuses to note it down on any disability discrimination forms. Why? She’s ashamed people will tag her as being reliant on it and that they’ll just think she’s thick.

    avdave2
    Member

    Very intresting programme on this on radio 4 recently in which one expert dismissed the idea of dyslexia as a condition you have or don’t have. He argued that we all have a degree of it, but that it is very variable and that trying to mark a point on the spectrunm which divides the dyslexic from the non dyslexic is fraught with problems. So if we all have it to a degree then I guess it not much use as a label or diagnosis.
    It was only very recently that I read that my habit of writing my letters back to front is considered as an idicator. I’ve pretty much got over that now but I still write my y’s backward. I’m sure I could change if I wanted to but I’ve been doing it so long it would take more effort than it’s worth. As long as I remember not to write any ransom notes or threatening letters I should be fine.

    Spesh99
    Member

    Some people are not good at reading just like some people are not good at maths or riding a bike. Everybody is different some people excel in some subjects while are bad at others. Studies supposedly say that dyslexic people are more creative so does this mean non-creative people (like me) also have a learning disorder that means I’m not great at the creative subjects. Of the people that I know that claim to be dyslexic the majority of them don’t really try hard even in non reading a writing related subjects.

    mudshark
    Member

    But, when rpesenting it (particularly in writing) her thoughts become jumbled and broken. It makes sense to her, but is confusing to the person reading/listenting.

    How about if she reads back or listens to a recording of herself?

    He argued that we all have a degree of it

    Curiously I’m told the same about homosexuality….

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Judging by the students’ work my wife brings home to mark, correct spelling is going to be irrelevant in a few years anyway.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    We’re identifying a lot of students as having Irlen Syndrome, which is a perception disorder and often mistaken for dyslexia.

    One lad with it was given a guaranteed job with a local company during uni holidays and after finishing his degree, because when he looked at their schematics without wearing his corrective glasses he saw it floating off the page in 3D and was able to spot errors with the design before it was built. he also complained that his corrective glasses made books boring and much preferred them when the text moved about.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Curiously I’m told the same about homosexuality….

    And autism.

    alexxx
    Member

    synastesia

    Of course, one does have to ask, just which evil ba5tard gave this condition a name that’s so darned hard to spell?

    skidartist
    Member

    as is the comparison with some 3rd world countries who apparently do not have the problem.

    Not really a meaningful statement for the MP to make, as dyslexia only exists statistically if you are prepared to define it. And anyone can choose their own definition and choose to ‘see’ it or not. My brother is dyslexic but when my folks raised concerns with his primary school head, he stated "nobody in this school is working-class enough to be dyslexic or middle-class enough to be autistic". Charmer.

    If you don’t have a definition for dyslexia then its easy to define someone as being anything else, the headteacher used the euphemism ‘nice’ as a way of saying that my bro was thick. For along time there has been a not-too-helpful definition of dyslexia in this country, which is to define it as someone who is otherwise intellectually bright but has specific difficulties in reading and writing. That assumes that difficulties with reading and writing amongst the less intelligent is a result in them being too thick to read and write.

    Reading and writing isn’t a higher intellectual function – people with Downs Syndrome can read and write. Chimps can be taught to write. Its a skill set that is independent of intellect and has only been part of human history for a short time. Just a few hundred years in some societies. So up until recently reading difficulties amongst the less academic kids have been overlooked.

    Its part of our schooling so because such a large part of our childhood involves being taught to read and write we assume its a long and difficult skill to learn. North american indians had no history of written language, but on introduction to it by settlers the whole society was literate within a year.

    But whats quite amusing is that dyslexia can be overcome, and one of the ways of overcoming it are through different methods of learning that compensate for the obstacles that that those students face. So by suggesting implementing those methods multilaterally, as our friendly MP is suggesting, you have to accept that dyslexia exists because his proposed methods directly address it.

    He’s proving not disproving its existence, further proof that his ability to write is not a measure of his own intellectual abilities.

    Badger
    Member

    Oh for F*cks sake!

    Yet again another ill informed ignorant idiot comes out banging the old "it doesn’t exist" "blame the teachers" "they’re just lazy" routine!

    I am dyslexic – I love to read, I have three degrees now and I’m working on my PhD as well as lots of published work so to view dyslexia (as this MP has) as only a problem spelling or reading is like saying being paraplegic means you can’t feel your toes! Well yes sort of but thats just a symptom of a larger problem.

    When I got an ed psych to test me my LEA said there was no such disability as dyslexia, my college said I was just bad at exams and my secondary school had assumed I was just not that bright…. it took me years of fighting to get any help – and in the end after failing my A levels the first time we just paid for a private ed psych consultation. When I showed them the results that I had an IQ of 155, a reading age off the scale and that the difference between my actual ability and my written expression in exams was huge they reluctantly (after being threatened with being sued) let me have what my ed psych report said I should have to make exams "a level and equal test" – thats important! I didn’t want an unfair advantage just a level and equal chance as everyone else!

    Result: I went from two Es and two Us at A level to an A two Bs and a C in one year and the only difference was a bit of extra time in the exam and being allowed to use a computer to type my answers.

    After this my LEA finally got sued for discrimination and admitted that maybe the other LEAs in the country might be right that dyslexia did exist.

    So after finally getting to a stage where the school system helps those with dyslexia rather than leaving them to flounder on their own, to hear some idiot MP take the most simplistic grasp of the issue and mouth off to the press with his ill-informed ignorant twaddle really p*sses me off. Its a complete retrograde step and if you ask me most teachers, far from using it as an excuse for bad performance, should be applauded for doing the right thing – actually looking after the needs of the only people who matter in their job… the pupils.

    Next time this MP should learn about what he’s talking about before opening his mouth (or in this case talking out his arse).

    ****t

    (Rant over)

    owenfackrell
    Member

    But, when rpesenting it (particularly in writing) her thoughts become jumbled and broken. It makes sense to her, but is confusing to the person reading/listenting.

    How about if she reads back or listens to a recording of herself?
    When i do this i nearly always read it as it seems in my head and not what is acctually writen on the page it is only if i come back to it a week or more later do i spot the mistakes which can be a simmple as ramdon capitalization through to it being complete gibberish. There are times that i find it frustrating but for 95% of my life it doesn’t effect me any more than my colour blindness.

    Mike, I tried those coloured lenses / overlays…just gave me a head ache or the page too dark to read!

    Being able to imagine things in 3D and from different perspectives is one of the great things about Dyslexia…defo helped with my engineering degree (the one the primary and secondary school teachers said I would never be able to take) 🙂

    I was suprised that Dyslexia was on the DDA as I have never declared it in any job interviews (hello boss!) as I make my own adaptations to how I work. Special equipment streaches to a good pen to help my hand writing (poor at best) and a clipboard that no one is to touch ever as it has all my (illegible) notes, ‘to do’ lists and important reminders on!

    Proof reading is a nightmare, the Mrs is dyslexic too so we proof read each others stuff and find it no problem to spot and correct mistakes at Uni…ever wonder how an Engineering student got to know so much about Psychology? 🙂

    SSP

    Badger
    Member

    owenfackrell

    It’s exactly the same for me! I just read the mistakes back as I remember what its supposed to say not what it actually does!

    I’ve used voice software to read-back (computer typed) written work. That sort of helps but its slow and tedious.

    Also the same with spotting others mistakes – I think its because I have to work so hard at spotting my own mistakes in writting that others gramatical and spelling mistakes jump out at me really easily. So my friends all came to me to proof read their dissertations etc. as I was really good at it (if a little overly critical of gramatical mistakes) ironic really!

    Spesh99
    Member

    @Badger:

    It’s exactly the same for me! I just read the mistakes back as I remember what its supposed to say not what it actually does!

    Not necessarily related to dyslexia but maybe it isn’t so much that you are remembering what it was supposed to say but that is doesn’t matter how it was spelled http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/~mattd/Cmabrigde/ (I was amazed how easily I could read it- as though it was all spelled correctly)
    This probably explains why I am really bad at proofreading stuff.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    How about if she reads back or listens to a recording of herself?

    Probably not v good. She used to do this as revision for her undergrad exams, and alsmost always got far lower marks than she ought to have done (her project work, when done away from exams, would usually elicit firsts, whereas exams would be in the third/fail category – didn’t make her happy to get a 2.2…. It took getting a PhD to get over that).

    jojoA1
    Member

    Just a wee point of information re Skidartist’s post. The word ‘nice’ historically meant ‘stupid’ or ‘simple’ and has changed over the centuries to it’s modern meaning of ‘pleasant’ or ‘agreeable’.

    A teacher at my son’s primary school suggested that he might be on the dyslexic spectrum because although he can read very well, far beyond his age group, his handwriting is appalling and his spelling is totally erratic. He also has great difficulty organising himself and is constantly losing the possessions he takes to school; also seemingly part of the ‘dyslexic’ spectrum. He was never formally assessed, and when I mentioned what this teacher had said to a later teacher at parents’ evening, it was roundly dismissed as nonsense. I never took it any further and he’s now at high school where his ability to read, learn and express himself verbally seems to far outstrip his ability to write legibly or comprehensibly. Maybe I should push to have him assessed so he can reach his full potential?…

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Result: I went from two Es and two Us at A level to an A two Bs and a C in one year and the only difference was a bit of extra time in the exam and being allowed to use a computer to type my answers.

    The best value added result I ever got for a student was a lad who came from a crap school and so had poor GCSEs, who we then identified as having dyslexia. I honestly didn’t know the value added number went that high!

    X2
    Member

    My undying thanks to my primary school headmaster, who in the 1960’s thought my reading/writing difficulties resulted from Dyslexia; brought in a specialist who concurred, then arranged for a special tutor.

    Within one year my reading standard was equal to that of my classmates & at secondary school I studied English Language & Literature at O Level & English Literature at A Level.

    IanMunro
    Member

    I can’t help but think that this current fad for everyone having dsylexia is part of some general western maliase where we’ve dealt with most of the really crippling day-to-day problems of survival and are now labelling and applying undue significance to more and more trivial things. Hence everyone now having dyslexia, food intolerances, alergies etc. There won’t be a label free functioning human in the country at this rate.

    …this current fad for everyone having dsylexia…

    Is just the same story repeated in the 80’s, 90’s etc… Always been bandwaggon jumpers, always will.

    SSP

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